Rusty Brake Discs

[audiseller]

Tracker - 2015-12-28 8:32 PM

 

audiseller - 2015-12-28 8:31 PM

 

Tracker - 2015-12-28 8:29 PM

 

audiseller - 2015-12-28 8:09 PM

 

Trolls on every forum these days unfortunately.

 

 

That may be your view but it is not at all what I said.

I only ever express my view.

 

 

 

Continuing this discussion will add nothing so I will not continue it.

Good decision as you had added nothing previously although your edit shows that you did continue it. ;-)

[George Collings]

Lets add something useful.

 

En route to an MOT test if possible find a long hill. In level area on quiet road repeated acceleration to speed limit and firm braking down to say 10 mph might suffice.

 

(1) Drive to top of hill using lots of revs and accelerator pedal on the floorboard so that any exhaust treatment system is up to temperature to burn out carbon build up.

 

(2) Return down hill in a high gear controlling speed by short periods of firm braking with due regard to other road users to ensure discs are bright.

 

(3) Arrive on time for test so engine is up to temperature.

 

( 4) Cross fingers that tester departed bed on correct side.

[rupert123]

audiseller - 2015-12-28 5:48 PM

 

rupert123 - 2015-12-28 4:30

 

 

 

 

Hate to be to picky but you did say to me in a reply on the 26 December that you 'had the brakes stripped and cleaned at every service'.

 

If you like to be picky it pays dividends to be accurate to prevent looking foolish. I see that for some reason you inserted the word "every" into your reading of my post. If you had bothered to read my post dated 27th you would have seen that I qualified that statement by saying "at anything other than an oil & filters service". Must be at that age you need reading glasses I'm guessing.

You don't seem to have added much to this post at all, I wonder why that is?

Ah you had changed your mind by then. Correct I have added nothing but in fairness nothing to add, I saw the original question as a windup and said so. Difficult to see what else it could be although some seemed to think it was serious.

[audiseller]

rupert123 - 2015-12-28 10:23 PM

 

audiseller - 2015-12-28 5:48 PM

 

rupert123 - 2015-12-28 4:30

 

 

 

 

Hate to be to picky but you did say to me in a reply on the 26 December that you 'had the brakes stripped and cleaned at every service'.

 

If you like to be picky it pays dividends to be accurate to prevent looking foolish. I see that for some reason you inserted the word "every" into your reading of my post. If you had bothered to read my post dated 27th you would have seen that I qualified that statement by saying "at anything other than an oil & filters service". Must be at that age you need reading glasses I'm guessing.

You don't seem to have added much to this post at all, I wonder why that is?

Ah you had changed your mind by then. Correct I have added nothing but in fairness nothing to add, I saw the original question as a windup and said so. Difficult to see what else it could be although some seemed to think it was serious.

Not a man of your word I see but surely it's past your bedtime?

[George Collings]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

[rupert123]

George Collings - 2015-12-28 11:23 PM

 

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

 

Agreed

[audiseller]

rupert123 - 2015-12-29 10:42 AM

 

George Collings - 2015-12-28 11:23 PM

 

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

 

Agreed

Hear hear.

[Rayjsj]

About as interesting as watching brainless idiots (in this case brainy) Arm wrestling, advantage rupert123, new balls please!

[Rayjsj]

audiseller - 2015-12-23 12:21 PM

 

Is there any product available which prevents disc corrosion on vans which are static for long periods of time? (That doesn't contaminate the pads obviously)

 

 

Yes,there is!!! As above, they look good too ! Getting some soon.

[audiseller]

Rayjsj - 2015-12-30 2:08 PM

 

audiseller - 2015-12-23 12:21 PM

 

Is there any product available which prevents disc corrosion on vans which are static for long periods of time? (That doesn't contaminate the pads obviously)

 

 

Yes,there is!!! As above, they look good too ! Getting some soon.

Which product are you buying?

[Derek Uzzell]

Ray

 

None of the ‘protective’ products mentioned above are really intended to prevent brake rotors from corroding when a motorhome is standing outside in all weathers for an extended period.

 

The aim of the products is essentially ‘cosmetic’ and, consequently, (see link)

 

http://hydes-serum.com/products/

 

you might get some benefit because you are concerned about the rust that forms on the brake rotors after you’ve washed your motorhome producing dust and spoiling the look of your nice clean alloy wheels.

 

It has to be said though that if your earlier posting were to be taken literally and your newly-cleaned wheels are actually being "covered with all the surface rust ground off of the discs by the brake pads” after just a half mile of driving, and produce a noise that puts your teeth on edge when you are braking, you might be well advised to check the state of the brake pads.

 

The only time I’ve had a lot of brake dust being produced very quickly (and a lot of noise occurring at the same time) was when I paired Tarox grooved rotors with Mintex M171 pads in a (largely vain) attempt to improve one of my VW GOLF Mk 1 GTi’s atrocious brakes. Otherwise its always taken several hundred miles to noticeably dirty-up my vehicles’ wheels even after the vehicle has been washed and I can see that the disks have begun to rust.

[aandncaravan]

We regularly service Motorhomes, cars, vans, etc. The Brake Pad deterioration as noted by Brambles, is an issue noticed only with Motorhomes.

We think this because the of the long periods of inactivity between drives.

 

What we often see is Brake Calliper Pistons that are free but the Pads are seized in the Caliper 'sliders'. Where the Brake pads movement, or lack of it, in the Calipers is the issue rather than a stuck Piston.

 

Some are so tightly rusted in place that great force is required to remove them. Usually once removed and cleaned of the rust they move freely. But generally show signs of severe heat build up.

 

What we suspect is happening is that a long period without moving, rusts the Pad in its housing. The first brake application forces the pad into contact with the disk where it then jams until the material wears generating a little clearance. By that time a lot of heat may well have been absorbed by the pad material.

 

With a few miles driving the pads, generally move in and out enough to more or less free up until the next long layup. Each time this occurs, results in the seizure being slightly worse.

We would guess this has an effect on fuel consumption and possibly Front tyre wear on a Merc and rear tyre wear on a Fiat/Peugeot?

 

Removing the pads from the Calipers annually is a wise move, in our opinion, if the van is not used weekly. Probably best done after the last of the Winter Salt in say March?

 

Not seen any evidence that Brake Disc rusting contributes to the issue, if anything I would suggest it probably helps as the abrasive nature of the rust probably helps the Pad to wear down a bit more quickly thereby reducing the Disc to Pad interference in fewer miles driving?

 

I am guessing, that using one of the sprays mentioned might reduce rusting of the Caliper/Brake Pad area so preventing rust formation at the Caliper/Pad point?.

I know it is not meant for this, and probably isn't heavy Duty enough to be totally effective, but I would guess it may help a little?

 

The observations that Pad/Shoe brake material has had a detrimental effect on the quality of modern Brake steel may be valid, but we restore Citroen H vans that had a production run from 1947 to 1981 and their Brakes certainly suffer with rust!!

 

 

 

 

[audiseller]

Interesting that a pro also advises regular brake strip & clean. Hope some of the earlier "experts" take note.

[sshortcircuit]

A friend of mine took his car in for an exhaust repair to one of the big "pro" garages and was advised that it required the shock absorbers replaced. He was dumbstruck but told them to proceed. When it came to settle the bill he queried the charge for the shockers and produced the bill from another depot of the same group who had replaced them only a few months earlier and asked if their guarantee was valid. They were at it and were well caught out.

 

If you think big and "pro" will see you right all the time, you are their ideal customer.

[Rayjsj]

audiseller - 2015-12-30 2:30 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2015-12-30 2:08 PM

 

audiseller - 2015-12-23 12:21 PM

 

Is there any product available which prevents disc corrosion on vans which are static for long periods of time? (That doesn't contaminate the pads obviously)

 

 

Yes,there is!!! As above, they look good too ! Getting some soon.

Which product are you buying?

Trying to get a price for the Kent product ?

Hydes serum is 8.99.

Not decided yet,

Derek, Their ads do say rust preventer ! Will hold them to their claim.

[audiseller]

sshortcircuit - 2015-12-30 8:49 PM

 

A friend of mine took his car in for an exhaust repair to one of the big "pro" garages and was advised that it required the shock absorbers replaced. He was dumbstruck but told them to proceed. When it came to settle the bill he queried the charge for the shockers and produced the bill from another depot of the same group who had replaced them only a few months earlier and asked if their guarantee was valid. They were at it and were well caught out.

 

If you think big and "pro" will see you right all the time, you are their ideal customer.

No, I am not that naive having been involved in the motor trade for many years. However I do have respect for the other fellow poster who appears to be a professional in this business unless you know otherwise?

[aandncaravan]

Can I suggest that of the three products, the Hydes Serum is the least ideal? It says, "Rustopper is designed to aid in water evaporation while preventing corrosion from forming on brake rotors and braking components without leaving any form of residue...". My interpretation is that it is about getting rid of the water that might cause the rust spotting immediately after washing, it does not leave any residue that can provide longer term rust prevention.

 

The Kent product does leave a residue, which is burnt off when you first use the Brakes. The blurb talks about it taking a few applications to get them back to full friction? It is says there can be a noise as a result of the pads momentarily sticking and suggests that the first few metres of driving after layup should include 5 or 6 'cleaning' applications of the Brakes.

 

The third product seems to be similar to the Kent one, in that it also leaves a protective coating that burns off with first use.

I guess it is possible that the substance would go on protecting the Calipers/Pad moving surface which might not 'burn off' as the temperatures away from the disc are lower?

 

 

From the description of the last two products, the protection they give might be quite beneficial in even quite long layups?

 

 

The good thing about the sprays is that you will be able to see just how good they are from how much the Disc and Caliper rusts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RogerC]

As I believe I said in an earlier post....unless 'you' can completely exclude oxygen or moisture from the discs they 'will' rust....oxidise.....turn a nice shade of red/brown.  

The following is an extract from the AA web site......hopefully an unbised and true comment about corrosion on discs....

Surface pitting

This used to be a reason for MOT test failure but data available following the introduction of the computerised MOT showed that too many cars were failing the test on 'brake discs pitted' even though this was not sufficient to weaken the disc.

VOSA(Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) has subsequently revised the testers' manual and now discs should only fail the test if they have become 'seriously weakened'.

So with the AA commenting in this way methinks there are some out there who are overly concerned.  If you've got a show vehicle then I understand the 'desire' to ensure ones motor is as pristine as possible....however it's a motorhome so I have to ask.....WHY anyone can really be so bothered about stopping the inevitable????

[Derek Uzzell]

The following link is to a comprehensive review of the Hyde’s Serum “Rustopper” product and includes comments from the manufacturer that should be of interest

 

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/72318-review-hyde-s-serum-rust-stopper-picture-heavy.html

[Campfos]

I would like to had a small point to this debate in the handbook fort my car it advises after washing the car to take it for a run and warm up the discs and pads to dry them off correctly and this cuts down surface rust build up on the discs .

So this is something I have always done since I read this and it does seem to cut down this build up of surface rust does not stop it but it's improvement. I do know Motorhomes spend longer at rest than cars but it's worked for me so far I also like to take mine for a run at least every few weeks we have a garden centre place about 25 mile away so it goes there.

 

Campfos

[audiseller]

Campfos - 2015-12-31 8:08 PM

 

I would like to had a small point to this debate in the handbook fort my car it advises after washing the car to take it for a run and warm up the discs and pads to dry them off correctly and this cuts down surface rust build up on the discs .

So this is something I have always done since I read this and it does seem to cut down this build up of surface rust does not stop it but it's improvement. I do know Motorhomes spend longer at rest than cars but it's worked for me so far I also like to take mine for a run at least every few weeks we have a garden centre place about 25 mile away so it goes there.

 

Campfos

Absolutely, makes sense though some "experts" on here reckon it's all a waste of time.

[Bulletguy]

RogerC - 2015-12-31 1:46 PM

As I believe I said in an earlier post....unless 'you' can completely exclude oxygen or moisture from the discs they 'will' rust....oxidise.....turn a nice shade of red/brown.  

The following is an extract from the AA web site......hopefully an unbised and true comment about corrosion on discs....

Surface pitting

This used to be a reason for MOT test failure but data available following the introduction of the computerised MOT showed that too many cars were failing the test on 'brake discs pitted' even though this was not sufficient to weaken the disc.

VOSA(Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) has subsequently revised the testers' manual and now discs should only fail the test if they have become 'seriously weakened'.

So with the AA commenting in this way methinks there are some out there who are overly concerned.  If you've got a show vehicle then I understand the 'desire' to ensure ones motor is as pristine as possible....however it's a motorhome so I have to ask.....WHY anyone can really be so bothered about stopping the inevitable????

A neighbour of mine, his car never has chance to get a bit of dirt on let alone rust!! He religiously performs a Sunday ritual every weekend where his BMW is pushed out of the garage on to his drive. Each wheel is removed in turn and he then proceeds to dust around the wheel discs and brakes. The car is then pushed back into the garage. It's used once a week to take his wife shopping....a round trip of approx 16 miles. It never gets driven anywhere else and is replaced with a new model every 12 months.Some strange folk around.......but it keeps him happy and out of trouble! (lol)

[audiseller]

Bulletguy - 2016-01-01 4:36 PM

RogerC - 2015-12-31 1:46 PM

As I believe I said in an earlier post....unless 'you' can completely exclude oxygen or moisture from the discs they 'will' rust....oxidise.....turn a nice shade of red/brown.  

The following is an extract from the AA web site......hopefully an unbised and true comment about corrosion on discs....

Surface pitting

This used to be a reason for MOT test failure but data available following the introduction of the computerised MOT showed that too many cars were failing the test on 'brake discs pitted' even though this was not sufficient to weaken the disc.

VOSA(Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) has subsequently revised the testers' manual and now discs should only fail the test if they have become 'seriously weakened'.

So with the AA commenting in this way methinks there are some out there who are overly concerned.  If you've got a show vehicle then I understand the 'desire' to ensure ones motor is as pristine as possible....however it's a motorhome so I have to ask.....WHY anyone can really be so bothered about stopping the inevitable????

A neighbour of mine, his car never has chance to get a bit of dirt on let alone rust!! He religiously performs a Sunday ritual every weekend where his BMW is pushed out of the garage on to his drive. Each wheel is removed in turn and he then proceeds to dust around the wheel discs and brakes. The car is then pushed back into the garage. It's used once a week to take his wife shopping....a round trip of approx 16 miles. It never gets driven anywhere else and is replaced with a new model every 12 months.Some strange folk around.......but it keeps him happy and out of trouble! (lol)

If you could let me know the model of BMW and contact details for your neighbour I would like to make an offer for his car when he's due to change it. Less than 800 miles and heavy first year depreciation should make this a phenomenal buy.

[aandncaravan]

We have ordered the Foerch/Forch Brake Disc Protection Spray P321 (at £12 from Amazon, see below) to trial on a Motorhome that is stored long term in the Compound.

Not because it keeps the Brake Disc shiny, but because one of it's key claims is that the Brake pads remain free in the Caliper.

 

We think that the brake pads seizing in the Callipers is the primary reason for premature Brake Pad failure (crumbling pad material) on vehicles that stand idle for long periods of time.

Obviously brakes 'sticking on' generate other costs such as additional tyre wear and Fuel consumption. For more info see the post above.

 

If a can of this stuff can remove the requirement for Brake dismantling at service time, plus Brake pad replacement costs, it could save many times what it cost.

 

Because rust is very visible, it should be very easy to see if the spray is keeping rust at bay. But we will remove the wheels in 4 months and check how free the Brakes are, especially the Pads.

 

Will let you know what we find

 

We got ours on amazon :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brake-DISCS-P321-Protective-Mist-400/dp/B005QO4NJE/ref=lp_6702363031_1_3/277-4983133-7420632?srs=6702363031&ie=UTF8&qid=1451853633&sr=8-3

 

The Foerch product claims are :

TÜV tested

•Protects brake discs from corrosion and rust film during long periods of inactivity

•Silicone and resin free

•Benefits of corrosion protection:

- no damage of braking effect caused by "stand-rust"

- eliminates brake noise caused by rust

- retains aesthetic of high-quality alloy rims

- brake pads remain free

•The transparent protective layer does not effect the braking effect when the vehicle is used

•Protective layer removes itself automatically when the brakes are applied

 

The Kent product also makes claims for rust protection during medium/long term standing so suspect it may be just as good, likely to be cheaper?

We disregarded the Hyde's Serum as it did not make any claims for protection of the Calipers/Pads or medium term rust protection.

 

Can we say thank you to Audiseller for starting what, I think, has answered his initial question but may have other significant benefits for Motorhome owners? Maybe even solving something that has been a Brake safety issue for some time where vehicles are idle for extended periods?

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Update to the above, not so much on rusty brake discs, but on protecting the Calipers from sticking and destroying the Brake Pads.

 

We have used Forch (Foerch) Anti rust disc spray on two Motorhomes stored here through the Winter. During two months of the wetest Winter ever, the Discs still look rust free. One them was serviced on Friday and had free sliding calipers.

We think that spraying this type of protection on the discs before hibernation could save a lot of money on Brake servicing costs later on. Especially if your Motorhome stands idle for long periods.

 

Not a Scientific test, but the fact it kept the Discs rust free, when other untreated vehicles in the compound had quite severe rust, shows the effect can be beneficial.

 

Should prolong the Disc life as well.