Tall_Mike Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi, Firstly - Apologies from a newbe - Picked the van up yesterday, - We have a Sun Living with a new Dometic Fridge of a type I haven't seen before, The van is really nice - went out in it for the day today to effectively "play" with everything and make sure I know how to use it, and that it all works before going further afield, discovered a problem trying to unlock the habitation door from outside with the key - very tricky, - Dealer will look at this for us. My question is - The fridge we have can be gas powered, it can be electrically powered and it has it's own slot for batteries in the fridge, - never seen that before. The dealer did a great handover - We were there a long time and the guy covered this however I was fading a bit by the end, - There is so much with heating, water, power, toilets etc. - It's my fault for not remembering, not their fault for supplying duff or indeed no information. We parked "off grid" today and the fridge worked fine on gas - once I turned the gas on. While travelling - the recommendation is to turn the gas off at the bottle, and turn the power off to habitation on the control above the door, it's possible to switch the fridge to either Gas, or Electricity, what is the recommended method of keeping the fridge running while travelling. Do we need to get the batteries for the fridge? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Have you a model number for fridge? My first thought is that you have got confused and it is a three way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Tall_Mike - 2016-01-10 8:57 PM Hi, While travelling - the recommendation is to turn the gas off at the bottle, and turn the power off to habitation on the control above the door, it's possible to switch the fridge to either Gas, or Electricity, what is the recommended method of keeping the fridge running while travelling. Do we need to get the batteries for the fridge? Thanks in advance. The fridge normally works off the leisure batteries while travelling ( with gas off ). On site you can use gas or ( if on mains hook-up) you can use electric. ;-) p.s. not seen one with batteries IN the fridge - but I'm sure someone else has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi, Thanks for the response. The fridge is a Dometic - either RMD 8501, 8505, 8551 or 8555, The van is in storage until next weekend so I cannot immediately check, - I can quote from the book .. we certainly have a slot in the fridge for a shed load of batteries "An optional battery compartment in the electronic,s case for internal (self contained) power supply of the electronics is available for model variants RMD 85x1 and 85x5 . Load the batteries compartment with batteries - 8 x AA 1.5 volts before operating the refrigerator. If the on-board 12v DV power supply is not present or there is an interruption of the mains power supply during operation the electronics automatically switch to the internal battery supply, the refrigerator can now only be operated in gas mode." Seems to work without any batteries in the thing "off grid" on gas, and on hook with electricity (Van parked) - but a little odd for sure. - Nothing wrong with it, brand new - But want to be sure what to do. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Malc is on the right track.... Our three way operates thus so I suspect yours will be similar as the operating is designed to be safe and not leave you with dead leisure batteries. The fridge (modern 3 way) should work thus: Engine running, gas off or on.... should auto select and run off vehicle generated elektrikery. Engine not running, no hook up and gas off....fridge should 'not' operate. Fridge should NOT operate solely from leisure batteries. Engine not running, no hook up....gas on...should auto select gas. Engine not running....hooked up.. gas on or off....should auto select electric. Hopefully that makes sense. As for the batteries in the fridge I would suggest they are not going to run the fridge unless they are mahoosive ones.......honestly I have no idea what they could be for. It would be interesting if you could post photos because I can't see anything on 'tinternet about batteries for those fridges.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Mike, I get overwhelmed by dealers at handover time because there is so much to know. I'm on my sixth motorhome! I assume you have read the manuals. There should be one for the fridge. You will need to tell us what model it is. On our Dometic, the model number is inside, bottom right and really difficult to read. The slot for batteries is what confuses me. Normally, fridges can be run off gas, electric, or your leisure battery when the engine is running. Some modern fridges automatically choose the power source if the fridge control is set to Automatic. For example, when I cool the fridge before a trip, I switch on the gas and the fridge realises that is the power to use. When I start the engine, it switches to the leisure battery. When on site and with the electric plugged in, it switches to EHU. There might be a short delay in switching between the power sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I only had a quick look at the manual. I believe the batteries are only to keep the control electronics working in case of failure of the mains and 12v supply so you can still work it on gas. Depending on model it is a 3 way fridge with either manual or automatic switching between Gas, mains and 12v. When traveling it will work of 12v, but without knowing the model don't know if it automatically switches to that or you need to manually switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Thanks, appreciate your advice. I will "play" with it a little. Clearly I need the exact model number and can take pictures next weekend. Looked again in the book Model 85x1 uses something called MES, Manual energy selection, automatic ignition Model 85x5 uses something called AES automatic and manual energy selection (along the lines of your process) So - when driving, the Fridge should be on ( and using Electricity) even if the Habitation control is off, - must run on a different circuit, either automatically, or set by myself. For some reason Adria fit a slightly different fridge to this model of van - a couple of reviews I read before purchase contained a reference to this although it wasn't a problem. The book recommends purchasing rechargable's and not to re-charge them in the Fridge (Clearly impossible) - I bet it chews through them at a heck of a rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 ...at a guess (and without looking for a manual), this will be an AES fridge with the standard usage for such an item. The 8 batteries will provide a 12V back-up supply to the AES switching electronics that will mean that it still functions if the main 12V supply (usually, I think, supplied by the vehicle battery on a permanent link) is interrupted. So, the fridge should be run on engine 12V whilst travelling, and 230V or gas, as appropriate, when on site. This can be manually switched if desired. If switched to AES, however, it will favour 230v electricity over gas on-site (and switch to gas if the 230v supply fails), and will switch to 12V from the engine if it is running. The back-up batteries will ensure (at least some of) this sequence happens even if the normal, fixed 12V supply fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Not come across the battery compartment on a fridge myself so please bear with me - any chance they should be rechargeable batteries in that compartment? If so filling it full of Duracells would not be a good idea? Just a thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi Mike The (Adria) Sun Living Lido S35SP is subject of a review in the latest MMM magazine (Feb 16) pages 148/155 That states the Fridge is a Dometic 102 litre, 3 way manual selection. but model no not stated. I would suspect that it's common to the range. Our Adria Sport fridge is the same operation & there is a selector knob above the fridge door, then to the right of that is an upright row of 3 lights to show if it is operating. The lights have symbols of a lightning strike for mains electric. flame for gas & battery for 12v. I don't have to make any selection on the control panel Note the engine must be running if you select the battery option, as running power comes from the alternator via a relay, not from the leisure/habitation battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 If its AES SEt it to auto, on mains Fridge runs of 240, off mains engine off will run on gas if bottle turned on, whilst driving a relay is energised this power come from the alternator as it can be up to 17amps depending on the size of the twelve volt element. If it is the auto model, when you turn the engine off if not on mains, the fridge will not fire up on gas for 15 mins so there is no spark generated in case you have just stopped for fuel. Which ever setting you are on it is all controlled by a 12 volt supply, so your 8 1.5 volt battery box is only to keep the fridge running if your leisure batteries should fail or run flat. If it MES the switch wil have O for off then symbols for the next three positions. Sorry it's a long winded explanation. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 An auto selection will have a 5 position switch. OFF, Mains, Gas, 12 volt and AUTO. A Manual selector Fridge will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Tall_Mike - 2016-01-10 8:57 PM While travelling - the recommendation is to turn the gas off at the bottle, and turn the power off to habitation on the control above the door, Thanks in advance. Mike. Please do not travel with the gas on and alight. I have seen someone doing just that (in 2014 beside the A30) When they were at a filling station the whole caboose caught alight destroying half the garage as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Tall_Mike - 2016-01-10 10:17 PM................... Clearly I need the exact model number and can take pictures next weekend. Looked again in the book Model 85x1 uses something called MES, Manual energy selection, automatic ignition Model 85x5 uses something called AES automatic and manual energy selection (along the lines of your process) ................................................................ Yes, you will need the model number to be sure. MES (manual energy selection) requires that you select the energy source manually. There will be a knob on the fridge fascia, as flicka describes, showing either gas, 12V or mains. When driving the van set to 12V. When on mains set to that source, and if static with no mains supply set to gas (making sure the gas is on at the cylinder and at the internal gas cock. AES (automatic energy selection) is simply automation of the energy selection process as Robin describes. I suspect your fridge is MES, and the batteries are to work the gas igniter if you have no 12V supply available. If the fridge functions normally on manual selection without the batteries present, I wouldn't bother fitting any batteries as it would then seem it will have a wired 12V supply from the leisure battery. Yes there are, in effect, two separate 12V supplies to the fridge. One, taken from the hab battery, which works the controls, the light, and the igniter, while the other, taken from the starter battery (but only live while the engine is running) supplies the 12V cooling element. The 230V mains cooling element is separate again, but the fridge controls and light still run from the 12V habitation supply when using mains. The gas system uses 12V electricity from the hab battery for controls, light and ignition. Both gas and mains energy supplies are controlled via the thermostat, the 12V supply from the starter battery is not and runs continually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Well, well, well. I've learned something new. Thanks Mike. The battery compartment was an optional extra on my Dometic RM8555AES but not fitted to my van. The option for my van took 8xAA 1.5v and clearly says, "Batteries are not included! Do not connect non-rechargeable batteries to a charger. Remove rechargeable batteries from the battery compartment before charging." I should have read the manual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 People in the Motorcaravan servicing trade can often be heard muttering the acronym RTFM out of the customers hearing after having to patiently explain for the umpteenth time that week how to operate some of their vehicles equipment. RTFM- Well the words manual the and read are amongst the words involved and you can work out what the F stands for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Can't quote easily on my phone, but I'll bet Brian is wrong, and it is an AES fridge. Domestic use a single 1.5v battery if one is used for the igniter. I'll wager the 8 are for AES function backup, for which 12v would be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi, I dont know the fridge in question, but wonder if it is a stand alone camping fridge, rather than one designed originally for but capable of installation in motorhomes or caravans. if this were the case, then in the pure camping application, with gas as only power source, the on board rechargeables would be necessary to provide control power for the auto gas/mains hookup selection in a tenting mode. just a guess but could explain need for battery compartment, and makes it slightly more useable in a wider leisure market. In the motorhome/caravan application, then the 12 volts control would come from leisure battery as normal. feasible, ???? Tonyg3nwl ps... please ensure gas is turned off at bottle when travelling.. could be nasty problem in event of accident. tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Probably the batteries are only needed to light the gas if your leisure battery is completely flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Will H - 2016-01-11 9:30 AM Tall_Mike - 2016-01-10 8:57 PM While travelling - the recommendation is to turn the gas off at the bottle, and turn the power off to habitation on the control above the door, Thanks in advance. Mike. Please do not travel with the gas on and alight. I have seen someone doing just that (in 2014 beside the A30) When they were at a filling station the whole caboose caught alight destroying half the garage as well. But you can run with the gas on if there's a Truma Secumotion (or similar) fitted. We often run our Truma heating off gas when actually moving and can't see why running a fridge off gas would be any different. FWIW, our Thetford N150 when set to auto will kick into gas mode when the ignition is off. It won't however kick in for 10-15 minutes according to the user manual so this gives time to refuel without any source of ignition being present. Not sure if this would also apply to the OP's Dometic fridge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Firstly thanks everyone - Mike desires his beer to be cool when he arrives at the end of his journey. Plenty to go on here - sure I can work it out - very much appreciated. As mentioned there is a review of a van very similar to mine in the recent MMM, - seems a fair and favourable report, ours is slightly longer with a large bed running down the van and not transverse, but much the same otherwise. The garage has equally sized doors on each side unlike the test vehicle. Think we have the "Comfort pack" which upgrades the Truma, matching seats, and colour coded bumpers. It was a demo vehicle so it came with what it came with. The van lives in the compound of the dealer which is maybe 10 miles away - they have agreed to look after it for a couple of months while we get ourselves up to speed which seems a good plan, we can collect it whenever we want - and of course they are open. - We do have a local space lined up although it's pretty wet at the moment. When I get back to it, possibly at the weekend depending on weather, - Snow is forecast and I don't plan to be in my van going anywhere if that happens, I will take a picture as best I can of the battery slot and check the model number which will confirm all. - Cheers all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I don't see the logic of turning the gas off at the bottle before starting a journey 'for safety'. Petrol is just as dangerous as LPG but no one has told me to turn off the petrol supply on my Citroen Picasso before I drive off? In a modern Motorhome the temperatures of the Intercooler and exhaust/DPF/Cat are high enough to Ignite even Diesel fuel. To me this is a far greater risk in an accident than the gas supply as it is 'up front' where most serious impacts occur. The Fuel filter in the engine bay is a big explosive capable, often Glass/brittle container. You are more likely to rupture a petrol/Diesel pipe pipe in an accident? If the accident is so severe that a split gas pipe is likely to be an issue, a bigger one will be the gas bottle being crushed and burst open. How does turning off the Gas Tap help there? One of our customers, before driving off, goes around the whole van and flips down the Mains RCD and makes sure every switch is Off. It's not plugged in, how can there be any risk?? Then does the same with the Gas. Turns off all the Gas valves under the sink to each Appliance. Then goes outside and turns off the gas bottle and the Gas tap below the regulator. When it comes in for a Habitation check everything you try and test has to be 'activated' first. Every gas tap/valve is 'loose'. More likely to leak when 'Off' and gas the occupants than any risk of the gas igniting in an accident. It is advice we hear all the time, but when you question it, the speaker is surprised that you do. But they then can't come up with any logical arguments behind the advice. We get more problems from worn controls constantly being turned On/Off than we have ever seen exploded Motorhomes. I can understand, and advocate, turning the gas bottle off once the van is stored, but every journey? It is just likely to give other issues. I am convinced it's a contributory factor in regulator failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 The modern gas systems tend to have an automatic cut off valve to prevent gas leaking if a pipe ruptures in an accident. With older systems it was always recommended to turn off the gas at the cylinder before driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 aandncaravan - 2016-01-11 10:51 PM I don't see the logic of turning the gas off at the bottle before starting a journey 'for safety'. Petrol is just as dangerous as LPG but no one has told me to turn off the petrol supply on my Citroen Picasso before I drive off? Whether or not you turn your gas off before leaving home is a matter of personal choice and will make no difference to your journey. Turning off the fuel supply to your engine would make a considerable difference. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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