thebishbus Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Is it possible to use heat on the screw heads ? If so you could try heating the heads with a micro jet gas torch, may just free them off. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 This is the set up of my Aluminium Extrusion, it as a rubber gasket that the aluminium sits on. https://www.reimo.com/en/901962-kantenleiste_silber_27x11mm_2m/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Sorry you found my intended help so useless. You must be getting quite frustrated.You seemed to have tried only ways I have found to work.Cutting a groove in the top to fit a flat screwdriver, cutting away the aluminium to get a mole grip on, and using an impact screw remover, which is only useful with more robust fittings.I have an old Land Rover so also have aluminium and steel mixed, combined with metric and imperial fittings, and previous owner bodges.Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Billggski - 2016-03-22 10:38 PM Sorry you found my intended help so useless. You must be getting quite frustrated. You seemed to have tried only ways I have found to work. Cutting a groove in the top to fit a flat screwdriver, cutting away the aluminium to get a mole grip on, and using an impact screw remover, which is only useful with more robust fittings. I have an old Land Rover so also have aluminium and steel mixed, combined with metric and imperial fittings, and previous owner bodges. Good luck. Hi Sorry I didn't mean to be rude or offend you. Any advice or help given should never be criticised, as it's all done with good intentions. Yes frustration is one way of putting it, bought a 1997 Fiat Ducato Autoroller 5 berth motorhome for £6000 last year and not had the chance to use it once yet as was told it had some small water ingress when we bought it, which me been a qualified chippy and generally a good all rounder when it come to DIY etc, thought oh I can do that myself. However once I started removing and stripping out, the water ingress damage was HUGE. The entire ceiling (Full length) had to be completely removed down to the aluminium skin, timbers were so rotted they just fell apart. Rollerteam had constructed it using a sandwich design of 5mm hardboard, few sparce timbers, polystyrene then another layer of hardboard. Obviously hardboard when it gets wet turns to mush. The side wall at the rear were bathroom was completely soaking wet, and all had to be removed, back to the skin. Then there was pin holes and larger holes in the aluminium skin which I treated and filled over with fibreglass from the inside and with Davids Isopon P38 Easy sand body filler on the outside. On closer inspection looks like everything that could leak, leaked. Both roof lights were leaking, bathroom roof vent leaking, Truma flue vent leaking, bike rack fitted to the rear wall poorly - leaking, bathroom window leaking, as well as 2 holes in the roof which looked like been caused by damage of some sort try, roof rack. The complete rear wall was also soaking wet and all needed stripping. So all in all a mammoth task and still I'm not finished. So far spent around £900 on materials, bought 2 new larger roof lights to be fitted, replaced all old 3 x 21W car bulb type interior ceiling lights with 6 x 3.5W LED down lighters, on separate switches for 3 zones. All fitted with new wiring. All new timbers throughout, 5/6 mm exterior plywood used. New insulation throughout. New mushroom bathroom vent, new Truma flue vent. Going to have new bathroom basin as old one was brittle and discoloured, new shower/tap. New paint job on the outside. Solar panel and aerial fitted to roof, might not put the heavy useless roof rack and ladders back on. Bought 21.5" HD 12V TV last week for it. And obviously the resealing of all the exterior joints, aluminium extrusions, windows, doors, etc. Which is proving to be a right nightmare, getting those blasted screws out. Bought A4 stainless steel grade screws to replace and will probably use some of this Duralac paste to prevent any corrosive reaction like you speak about http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281960722406?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Billggski - 2016-03-22 10:38 PM Sorry you found my intended help so useless. You must be getting quite frustrated. You seemed to have tried only ways I have found to work. Cutting a groove in the top to fit a flat screwdriver, cutting away the aluminium to get a mole grip on, and using an impact screw remover, which is only useful with more robust fittings. I have an old Land Rover so also have aluminium and steel mixed, combined with metric and imperial fittings, and previous owner bodges. Good luck. Hi Sorry I didn't mean to be rude or offend you. Any advice or help given should never be criticised, as it's all done with good intentions. Yes frustration is one way of putting it, bought a 1997 Fiat Ducato Autoroller 5 berth motorhome for £6000 last year and not had the chance to use it once yet as was told it had some small water ingress when we bought it, which me been a qualified chippy and generally a good all rounder when it come to DIY etc, thought oh I can do that myself. However once I started removing and stripping out, the water ingress damage was HUGE. The entire ceiling (Full length) had to be completely removed down to the aluminium skin, timbers were so rotted they just fell apart. Rollerteam had constructed it using a sandwich design of 5mm hardboard, few sparce timbers, polystyrene then another layer of hardboard. Obviously hardboard when it gets wet turns to mush. The side wall at the rear were bathroom was completely soaking wet, and all had to be removed, back to the skin. Then there was pin holes and larger holes in the aluminium skin which I treated and filled over with fibreglass from the inside and with Davids Isopon P38 Easy sand body filler on the outside. On closer inspection looks like everything that could leak, leaked. Both roof lights were leaking, bathroom roof vent leaking, Truma flue vent leaking, bike rack fitted to the rear wall poorly - leaking, bathroom window leaking, as well as 2 holes in the roof which looked like been caused by damage of some sort try, roof rack. The complete rear wall was also soaking wet and all needed stripping. So all in all a mammoth task and still I'm not finished. So far spent around £900 on materials, bought 2 new larger roof lights to be fitted, replaced all old 3 x 21W car bulb type interior ceiling lights with 6 x 3.5W LED down lighters, on separate switches for 3 zones. All fitted with new wiring. All new timbers throughout, 5/6 mm exterior plywood used. New insulation throughout. New mushroom bathroom vent, new Truma flue vent. Going to have new bathroom basin as old one was brittle and discoloured, new shower/tap. New paint job on the outside. Solar panel and aerial fitted to roof, might not put the heavy useless roof rack and ladders back on. Bought 21.5" HD 12V TV last week for it. And obviously the resealing of all the exterior joints, aluminium extrusions, windows, doors, etc. Which is proving to be a right nightmare, getting those blasted screws out. Bought A4 stainless steel grade screws to replace and will probably use some of this Duralac paste to prevent any corrosive reaction like you speak about http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281960722406?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Billggski - 2016-03-22 10:38 PM Sorry you found my intended help so useless. You must be getting quite frustrated. You seemed to have tried only ways I have found to work. Cutting a groove in the top to fit a flat screwdriver, cutting away the aluminium to get a mole grip on, and using an impact screw remover, which is only useful with more robust fittings. I have an old Land Rover so also have aluminium and steel mixed, combined with metric and imperial fittings, and previous owner bodges. Good luck. Hi Sorry I didn't mean to be rude or offend you. Any advice or help given should never be criticised, as it's all done with good intentions. Yes frustration is one way of putting it, bought a 1997 Fiat Ducato Autoroller 5 berth motorhome for £6000 last year and not had the chance to use it once yet as was told it had some small water ingress when we bought it, which me been a qualified chippy and generally a good all rounder when it come to DIY etc, thought oh I can do that myself. However once I started removing and stripping out, the water ingress damage was HUGE. The entire ceiling (Full length) had to be completely removed down to the aluminium skin, timbers were so rotted they just fell apart. Rollerteam had constructed it using a sandwich design of 5mm hardboard, few sparce timbers, polystyrene then another layer of hardboard. Obviously hardboard when it gets wet turns to mush. The side wall at the rear were bathroom was completely soaking wet, and all had to be removed, back to the skin. Then there was pin holes and larger holes in the aluminium skin which I treated and filled over with fibreglass from the inside and with Davids Isopon P38 Easy sand body filler on the outside. On closer inspection looks like everything that could leak, leaked. Both roof lights were leaking, bathroom roof vent leaking, Truma flue vent leaking, bike rack fitted to the rear wall poorly - leaking, bathroom window leaking, as well as 2 holes in the roof which looked like been caused by damage of some sort try, roof rack. The complete rear wall was also soaking wet and all needed stripping. So all in all a mammoth task and still I'm not finished. So far spent around £900 on materials, bought 2 new larger roof lights to be fitted, replaced all old 3 x 21W car bulb type interior ceiling lights with 6 x 3.5W LED down lighters, on separate switches for 3 zones. All fitted with new wiring. All new timbers throughout, 5/6 mm exterior plywood used. New insulation throughout. New mushroom bathroom vent, new Truma flue vent. Going to have new bathroom basin as old one was brittle and discoloured, new shower/tap. New paint job on the outside. Solar panel and aerial fitted to roof, might not put the heavy useless roof rack and ladders back on. Bought 21.5" HD 12V TV last week for it. And obviously the resealing of all the exterior joints, aluminium extrusions, windows, doors, etc. Which is proving to be a right nightmare, getting those blasted screws out. Bought A4 stainless steel grade screws to replace and will probably use some of this Duralac paste to prevent any corrosive reaction like you speak about http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281960722406?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 New to me. WD-40 Specialist Fast Release Penetrant Spray is now available as well as the WD-40 Maintenance Spray. "Not a lot of people know that" B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 thebishbus - 2016-03-22 4:57 PM Is it possible to use heat on the screw heads ? If so you could try heating the heads with a micro jet gas torch, may just free them off. Brian B. In one of my past lives repairing military vehicles I found the only heating method capable of breaking the seal of stubborn screws and nuts was oxy acetylene. Most of the surrounding material and parts were obviously unimportant as they were to be covered again with fresh panelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmill Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Paul, I had the same issue as you going through. I bought a 1997 CI Peugeot Boxer motorhome with a small leak >:-( . Turned out to be a massive job roof off the lot. Didn't realise how poor these vehicles are put together. Most of the screws in the alloy capping just snapped so not as bad a problem as your going through. the main issue I had was cutting through the sealant on the capping more than getting screws out. as always you cry for help on the forums and you get the usual answers that don't help at all just frustrate you more. I had to use normal self tapping screws as I couldn't get small had screws so with this I cant fit the insert as the heads are to wide. What screws did you use and were did you get them from ? I could send you some photos if you want just to soften the blow as someone else has been through what your going through 8o| Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 fordmill - 2016-05-31 8:27 AM Hi Paul, I had the same issue as you going through. I bought a 1997 CI Peugeot Boxer motorhome with a small leak >:-( . Turned out to be a massive job roof off the lot. Didn't realise how poor these vehicles are put together. Most of the screws in the alloy capping just snapped so not as bad a problem as your going through. the main issue I had was cutting through the sealant on the capping more than getting screws out. as always you cry for help on the forums and you get the usual answers that don't help at all just frustrate you more. I had to use normal self tapping screws as I couldn't get small had screws so with this I cant fit the insert as the heads are to wide. What screws did you use and were did you get them from ? I could send you some photos if you want just to soften the blow as someone else has been through what your going through 8o| Joe Good Morning Joe Sorry to hear about your about your misfortune with your motorhome, it;s a right stomach turner when you first find out and see the damage. I searched around for ages and order several lots of wrong sized screws,which had to be returned as the heads were too big and like you say I couldn't fit the herzim strip properly. Eventually having loads of research, digging around on the internet and google searched along with emailing sellers. I came across this site, found the correct screws that I needed after I sent them one sample screw and they matched it for me, service was second to none, absolutely excellent. I would gladly recommend them to anyone. Here are the details: http://www.pts-uk.com/Home The screws that I ordered were NO.4 X 1.1/4 POZI RAISED CSK TAP SCREW DIN 7983C Z A2 ST/ST here is the link for them: http://www.ptsuk.com/Products/Self_Tapping_Pozi_Raised_Countersunk_AB_Tappers_Metric_A2/A7983041250 These ones were for fastening down the Aluminium Extrusion that the herzim strips sits into. Then for the window and door Aluminium rails that as herzim strip insert also, (some of these were rusty and starting to corrode on my motorhome, so I changed them) to: http://www.ptsuk.com/Products/Self_Tapping_Pozi_Raised_Countersunk_AB_Tappers_Metric_A2/A7983041000 Found these both almost perfect match for both jobs, they are stainless steel A2, self tapping. The price was very reasonable and even sent me sample ones for free to try. I contacted a guy called Andy at PTS through email and he was very helpful, if you need any help contact him, and please tell him that I recommended you to them. aedwards@pts-uk.com Glad to be of help. And yes please send me some pictures of your motorhome repair, would be nice to see. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojitoes Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Only just caught this thread and cannot see anywhere that anyone has mentioned using screw extractors. If the screw head has become too corroded to use, drilll a small pilot hole and then screw the extractor into the screw- as you screw the extractor in the original screw comes out. Any good tool shop will sell them and they come in various sizes. Hope this helps Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmill Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Paul, Thanks for that info the links didn't work but I've emailed Andy @PTS, I've found a couple of photos Regards joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 If the screws refuse to move then grind them flat and re-drill new positions elsewhere, assuming the new material you're assembling has no holes, if it does then move it slightly either way. And don't forget to seal the damage done with a filler ... or water will enter around the old screw stubs. By using the old screw holes they maybe useless anyway and still allow water entry. Regarding 'Stainless' ... so many grades for so many purposes, its all about the cost of the elements that make up the mix. And you will NEVER EVER know what the foundry mix was ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Bojitoes - 2016-05-31 10:33 AM Hi Only just caught this thread and cannot see anywhere that anyone has mentioned using screw extractors. If the screw head has become too corroded to use, drilll a small pilot hole and then screw the extractor into the screw- as you screw the extractor in the original screw comes out. Any good tool shop will sell them and they come in various sizes. Hope this helps Bob Hi there I started this topic and yes screw extractors were one of my first options, however due to the screws I was trying to remove been hardened steel, they didn't work, think I might have got one screw out, with them. The thing with screw extractors is that they only seem to work about 50% of the time if that, sometimes they work easily sometimes you have no joy at all with them. Some of the online demonstrations testing screw extractors are very interesting to watch. Tried everything, penetrative spray, ACF50, heat, screw extractors, drilling the heads off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Fiat Ducato - 2016-03-21 9:57 PM Billggski - 2016-03-21 9:19 PM Stainless steel isn't a perfect solution, "galling" can occur, where nuts and bolts fuse together, and aluminium/stainless steel is not a good mix. http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=89 So what is then? very well saying this statement but then not offer up any alternative is just irritating and pointless really. If you use standard screws they will corrode beyond recognition, and your saying stainless steel can cause a bi metallic corrosion reaction. Not sure what's left really? I'm sure you know there are different grades of s/steel, I seem to remember from the very dim and distant past that 340 grade will not hold a magnet whereas 400 grade will. Hence 340 has less carbon and will corrode less. Just 'cos it's stainless doesn't mean it won't rust. We have some Viners s/steel cutlery which every time it goes in the dishwasher it comes out with spots of rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 fordmill - 2016-05-31 11:49 AM Hi Paul, Thanks for that info the links didn't work but I've emailed Andy @PTS, I've found a couple of photos Regards joe These links work: http://www.pts-uk.com/Products/Self_Tapping_Pozi_Raised_Countersunk_AB_Tappers_Metric_A2/A7983041250 http://www.pts-uk.com/Products/Self_Tapping_Pozi_Raised_Countersunk_AB_Tappers_Metric_A2/A7983041000 (The links originally provided lack the hyphen between “pts” and “uk”) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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