shirles Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Does anybody know the maximum weight my 2012 Delaware will tow? I thought it might be 750kilo but not so sure. Looked on autotrail website but could'nt find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 ...assuming a standard model, and all the other caveats: http://www.auto-trail.co.uk//media/downloads/brochures/2012brochure.pdf ...page 61 shows 1040kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Look on the VIN plate under the bonnet. The top line will show the vehicles max permitted weight. The second the Train weight. The maximum combined weight of vehicle and the maximum permitted weight as shown on the trailers identity plate. Subtract the MPW from the train weight to find how heavy a loaded trailer you can tow. It should also be in the vehicles manual. You have to have the right classes on your D/L. If the converter has altered the permitted weights ( usually upwards) this will eat into the weight that can be towed Note its the maximum weight on the trailer plate not the weight of trailer + part load that is critical A 1040kg Max permitted weight trailer will probably be insufficient to carry most cars even small ones are around 1000kg . Bear in mind the trailer will be braked and its own weight comes out of its permitted weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirles Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 Thanks for info it certainly gives me food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 George Collings - 2016-03-26 10:50 AM ...Note its the maximum weight on the trailer plate not the weight of trailer + part load that is critical It was suggested here in the past that, when a car was being ‘trailered’ on an A-frame, it was the car’s MTPLM that was significant not the actual weight of the car. I recall following this up with VOSA and being advised categorically that it was the weight of the car that ‘counted’, not the MTPLM datum on its VIN-plate. This advice of course related to UK motoring regulations. New Zealand’s laws may differ - they certainly do regarding A-frame towing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 George Collings - 2016-03-26 10:50 AM Note its the maximum weight on the trailer plate not the weight of trailer + part load that is critical As Derek has already pointed out, in the UK at least, that is not the case. This from the DVSA 'Guide for Horsebox and Trailer Owners', page 18 provides clarification. “It’s the actual weight of the vehicle and load which is important in determining a vehicle’s compliance with legal weight thresholds, not the potential carrying capacity.” I tow a 2 ton trailer behind my car which has a 1600kg max towing weight and I checked out the situation with VOSA (as was) myself. As long as I don't exceed 1600kg trailer+load weight it is perfectly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 ...it is worth noting that in some cases, deducting the actual in-use weight of the towing vehicle from the GTW (rather than the MAM) will give a valid towing weight which exceeds the difference between the MAM and the GTW. In many cases, however, there is also a "design towing weight" constraint, which means this cannot be relied on, and manufacturer's instructions should always be followed.. In the case of the Autotrail brochure referenced above, you will see there are some models where this applies (i.e. the maximum towed weight can be increased if the towing vehicle is run below its MAM, as long as the GTW limit is not exceeded). This does not apply to the Delaware, where, in all circumstances the maximum is 1040kg (presumably dictated by the limitations of the chassis design and the attachment arrangements for any towbar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I have just tried searching on the question of if GVW of trailer is as shown on plate or the load at the time and to say muddy is an understatement. For practical reasons if the loads imposed on the towing vehicle up to the total weight it was designed to tow are not exceeded it should be OK. I would want the opinion given by VOSA to that effect to be on paper and not just a telephone conversation. The state of much law appears to have its first priority keeping lawyers employed. Strange to relate many MPs are lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 George Collings If the converter has altered the permitted weights ( usually upwards) this will eat into the weight that can be towed . George, can you clarify this for me please. I have an Autotrail Apache with a GVW OF 3500kg and Max train weight 4750. Autotrail uprated it to 3650 and 4900 respectively. I need to uprate further, to a max allowable of 3850 GVW (and rear axle from 2000 to 2240) Are you saying that the train weight will remain at 4900, leaving a towable weight of 1050? Which, as you say, is not enough for a car on a trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 shirles - 2016-03-26 9:21 AM Does anybody know the maximum weight my 2012 Delaware will tow? I thought it might be 750kilo but not so sure. Looked on autotrail website but could'nt find it. I had a 2012 Savannah, it's max. Tow weight was in the handbook at 1060 kg. SO, not enough for a car AND A trailer, I opted for a Car-A-tow A- frame to tow my Toyota Yaris (1040kg) plus A-Frame at 20 kgs. Reason for comparitively low tow limit was the rear chassis extensions, these had to be strengthened with extra bracing when the type approved Witter tow bar was fitted. I towed the car for 3 years with no hassle at all, can recommend it. BUT I wouldn't chance it in mainland Europe. Too many folk have been caught and fined, but more to the point made to separate the unit. My wife doesn't drive so not possible with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 George Collings - 2016-03-26 2:14 PM I have just tried searching on the question of if GVW of trailer is as shown on plate or the load at the time and to say muddy is an understatement. For practical reasons if the loads imposed on the towing vehicle up to the total weight it was designed to tow are not exceeded it should be OK. I would want the opinion given by VOSA to that effect to be on paper and not just a telephone conversation. The state of much law appears to have its first priority keeping lawyers employed. Strange to relate many MPs are lawyers. George You might want to browse through the postings on this earlier discussion’s final page. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Towing-small-car/36949/91/ My posting of 8 January 2015 2:08 PM refers to my DVSA inquiry and the advice I was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 It is the actual weight of the trailer + load that are relevant. I got stopped by Police while towing a Citroen H van on a twin axle trailer along the M62. I then had to follow them on a 50 minute journey (the opposite direction to which I had been travelling) to a VOSA weigh station. They measured the weight on all four axles, the two on the Towing vehicle and both axles on the twin axle trailer. There was no interest in the theoretical limits except to ensure I was not over them. I was within the weight limits on all axles and within the limits of the trailer + towing vehicle. However, the towing vehicle was a Peugeot van that was not officially imported into this country so was not on their database. They slapped an immobilisation order on the outfit and I had to get both vehicles transported back to base. I was stopped at 11:49, half an hour from my destination, eventually got home at 23:43. I was lucky because I was subsequently able to prove I was within the law so not prosecuted, not fined, no points added to my Licence. They treat infringements by Traders a lot more robustly. I had the prohibition of movement lifted. While I was waiting for the Police/VOSA to decide my fate, I saw a number of Trailers and Vans being brought in by the Police. A lot of massively overloaded vehicles which were dangerous beyond belief. Disappointed as I was at my situation, I could see how what they were doing was making the roads safer. In order to make the H van as light as possible on the trailer, we had already removed the spare wheel, drained the coolant, Oil and fuel, which makes quite a few kilos difference. Not just for the regs, but it makes the outfit more stable. Obviously not practical when a car is being towed behind a Motorhome, but shows what a difference can be made when you think about it. Conversely leaving a lot of things in the towed car that don't need to be there (plus full tank of Fuel, etc) can work the opposite way. We created a page on the website to help others avoid the trauma I went through. Although it focuses on towing an H van, it is relevant to all towing : http://www.citroenhyonline.co.uk/trailering-an-h-van.php If anyone notices any issues with what we have written, please correct us?. We have had quite a bit of positive email feedback, probably the best was from a 27 year old saying thank you. He had been told by his father that he was safe to tow a big load, when actually his Driving License entitlement meant he was restricted to a combined trailer + load of just 750kg. Dad was unaware of the Driving License changes. Most motorhomes are close to the limit of the mechanical elements of the base vehicle before hitching extra weight on the back. Even towing a small car may place significant extra load on the Clutch, Gearbox, etc. From all angles thinking carefully about travelling as light as possible when towing makes a lot of sense. Removing that third battery and running with empty water tanks can make up to a 100 kilo difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 candapack - 2016-03-26 8:30 PM George Collings If the converter has altered the permitted weights ( usually upwards) this will eat into the weight that can be towed . George, can you clarify this for me please. I have an Autotrail Apache with a GVW OF 3500kg and Max train weight 4750. Autotrail uprated it to 3650 and 4900 respectively. I need to uprate further, to a max allowable of 3850 GVW (and rear axle from 2000 to 2240) Are you saying that the train weight will remain at 4900, leaving a towable weight of 1050? Which, as you say, is not enough for a car on a trailer. My understanding is that the governing factor for train weight is the ability of the vehicle to perform around five starts on a 12% gradient in a fixed time. In other words the ability of the clutch to cope with heat build up. It might be worth checking this with Autotrails technical department not sales. Normally the converter relies on the makers type approval for such matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 candapack Your best bet would be to contact SVTech about this http://www.svtech.co.uk/vehicles/motorhomes/ They should be able to tell you want would be involved in uprating the GVW to 3850kg and the rear axle-loading to 2240kg. As I understand it, uprating the GVW and/or axle-loading will not automatically uprate the gross train weight, but SVTech will be able to say if that’s correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Thanks George and Derek. It's SV Tech who said that I can increase the weights as above, but I never discussed train weight. It's likely I won't be towing anyway, but think I should know just in case. I'll give them a ring next week. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.