Ford Transit 2016 - Automatic Transmission?

[Derek Uzzell]

In the latest (April 2016) issue of the Caravan Club Magazine there’s a test report on a Ford Transit Custom-based Wellhouse Terrier camper.

 

The article mentions that the 2.2litre capacity motor fitted to the test-vehicle will be superseded by a 2.0litre Euro VI-compliant powerplant, with this occurring perhaps as early as May. The report adds that when this happens an automatic transmission option will be offered.

 

It’s been well-reported that the 2.2litre motor was to be dropped from Transit Custom models and be replaced by a range of 2.0litre engines (code-named “Panther”), but it’s also been stated (fairly authoritatively) that production of the 2.2litre motor was to cease completely and – as a consequence – the ‘big’ Transit Mk 8 would also be fitted in future with 2.0litre Euro VI motors. If that’s correct, there’s a good chance that an auto-box would become available for the Transit Mk 8 range.

 

For anyone who has a Transit-based motorhome/camper on order, or is considering buying one, this may be worth bearing in mind.

[George Collings]

At a guess, this will be a self shifting dual clutch transmission rather than the torque converter type or automated friction clutch synchromesh type.

 

I have driven one in a petrol 1600 Ford Fiesta and it was creamy smooth .

VW and others have been using the technology for a year or two now.

[Muswell]

George Collings - 2016-03-26 11:30 AM

 

At a guess, this will be a self shifting dual clutch transmission rather than the torque converter type or automated friction clutch synchromesh type.

 

I have driven one in a petrol 1600 Ford Fiesta and it was creamy smooth .

VW and others have been using the technology for a year or two now.

 

We have a Golf with the DSG and it is in a different league from the old torque converter boxes we had before.

[Derek Uzzell]

This link refers to Ford dual-clutch transmissions:

 

http://www.just-auto.com/news/ford-faces-issues-with-twin-clutch-transmissions_id162848.aspx

 

If Ford fits their “Powershift” transmission to Transits, it’s more likely to be the wet-clutch variant to cope with the torque.

[George Collings]

Derek I believe you are right about the larger motor using a wet clutch . I read somewhere that work was being done to try and up-rate the dry type as its easier to control.

 

I still have trouble getting my head round the idea of gears being engaged while alternative load paths are used. The rate of engagement and disengagement of the clutches relative to each other is highly critical.

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-03-26 11:23 AM

 

In the latest (April 2016) issue of the Caravan Club Magazine there’s a test report on a Ford Transit Custom-based Wellhouse Terrier camper.

 

The article mentions that the 2.2litre capacity motor fitted to the test-vehicle will be superseded by a 2.0litre Euro VI-compliant powerplant, with this occurring perhaps as early as May. The report adds that when this happens an automatic transmission option will be offered.

 

It’s been well-reported that the 2.2litre motor was to be dropped from Transit Custom models and be replaced by a range of 2.0litre engines (code-named “Panther”), but it’s also been stated (fairly authoritatively) that production of the 2.2litre motor was to cease completely and – as a consequence – the ‘big’ Transit Mk 8 would also be fitted in future with 2.0litre Euro VI motors. If that’s correct, there’s a good chance that an auto-box would become available for the Transit Mk 8 range.

 

For anyone who has a Transit-based motorhome/camper on order, or is considering buying one, this may be worth bearing in mind.

 

Where Pelmetman leads :D .............Mr Ford eventually follows *-) ........

 

I doubt they'll be as green as my Fanny will be on LPG...........Or as fast B-) ............

 

Luddism is the new progress eh? (lol) ........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

George Collings - 2016-03-26 5:03 PM

 

Derek I believe you are right about the larger motor using a wet clutch . I read somewhere that work was being done to try and up-rate the dry type as its easier to control.

 

I still have trouble getting my head round the idea of gears being engaged while alternative load paths are used. The rate of engagement and disengagement of the clutches relative to each other is highly critical.

 

 

From the web.....

 

"A wet type clutch is nothing but a multi-plate clutch lubricated to dissipate the heat generated while engagement and disengagement. The torque converter is a mechanical device which uses fluid to transfer torque. Its main components are :

1. Impellar

2. Turbine blade

3. Stator

Torque converters are used in mainly used in automatic transmission. The impellar is connected to the engine which forces the fluid to hit the turbine blades which is generally connected to the the sun & planetary setup."

 

Oh goody multiple clutches to fail >:-) ........

 

Mr Ford knows a good earner when he see's one (lol) .....

 

Bit more info ;-) .........

 

https://gearboxtech.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/automatic-transmission-with-torque-converter-vs-wetdry-clutch/

 

:D

[Derek Uzzell]

pelmetman - 2016-03-26 7:30 PM

 

...I doubt they'll be as green as my Fanny will be on LPG...........Or as fast B-) ............

 

 

I dare not comment.

[Dave225]

There was a suggestion in a recent road test of a Ford motorhome that an automatic option was on the cards, however, if memory is correct it seemed from the author that Ford were maybe going back to a torque converter types of system, but I am happy to be corrected. I do know Mercedes have done the same with their new 7 speed unit as they had all sorts of problems with the computerised clutch system.

 

To be honest having both a car with torque auto and a camper with computerised system I can state that I much prefer the torque system. It is much smoother and changes much quicker, but then again maybe Fiat are still learning on these things. With the Fiat you feel every change up or down. Unfortunately, I could not afford the Mercedes, and did not really like the layouts on offer, so Fiat it was. My wife's main gripe with the Fiat is that there is no 'creep' and when she stops on a hill if she is not quick the brakes disconnect quickly and the van rolls back. This does not happen with the torque system. I am still educating her in the use of the handbrake, as the car one is automatic.

[mikebeaches]

Dave225 - 2016-03-27 3:35 PM

 

My wife's main gripe with the Fiat is that there is no 'creep' and when she stops on a hill if she is not quick the brakes disconnect quickly and the van rolls back. This does not happen with the torque system. I am still educating her in the use of the handbrake, as the car one is automatic.

 

Why not use the left foot for hill-holding, rather than the handbrake?

 

It may take a bit of getting used to.

 

Whenever driving automatics - either type - I now always use my left foot to operate the foot brake (osteoarthritis in my right knee plays up with the effort of constant braking) . But it sure makes pulling away on hills a sinch.

[Guest pelmetman]

Dave225 - 2016-03-27 3:35 PM

 

To be honest having both a car with torque auto and a camper with computerised system I can state that I much prefer the torque system. It is much smoother and changes much quicker, but then again maybe Fiat are still learning on these things. With the Fiat you feel every change up or down.

 

Yep.....me to B-) ........

 

As the old saying goes ......If it ain't broke don't fix it *-) ........

 

I speak from experience as I specified my works tranny back in 1999 with their semi auto box :'( .......what a pigs ear that was 8-) .......

 

 

[George Collings]

For anybody who is interested in these dual clutch systems see:

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission.htm

 

The friction type clutches have to be multi plate to deal with the torque involved. They can be dry or running in lubricant. Conventional clutches for cars and LCV can be single plate because they use nearly all the flywheel diameter. Larger HGV, tractors and some hugely powerful supercars may be multi plate.

 

All the current crop of automated clutch synchromesh transmissions rely on a computer to do what a driver does with his two legs. That is control a big dry clutch and juggle an accelerator pedal at the same time. Some of the time both driver and computer don't quite get it right.

 

Hydraulic torque converters use oil to smoothly transmit drive and at low road speed multiplying the torque available, as speed rises the multiplication reduces. The original automatics had just two speeds but the latest have 7 or more so the gaps are narrow keeping the engine running at its most efficient speed longer to such an extent automatics are now better on fuel than manual transmissions.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

It’s perhaps worth highlighting that there’s no certainty that the 2.0litre “Panther” motor will be fitted to the Transit Mk 8 and, if that doesn’t happen, the Mk 8 may not get an automatic transmission either.

 

Auto-boxes are fitted to USA-marketed Transits, but these have large-capacity diesel or petrol motors and are RWD-only. The ‘European’ Transit Mk 8 has a 2.2litre diesel motor with 100PS, 125PS or 155PS output and a 6-speed manual transmission, but is offered in FWD, RWD or 4WD format - complicating provision of an auto-box.

[George Collings]

I would expect the FWD Trannie the biggest selling version to get the latest motor and auto box first.

Most current gearboxes are of modular design so that the internals that can be used in transverse of fore and aft power trains.

 

The long serving Ford MT75 box is a classic example.

 

[Dave225]

mikebeaches - 2016-03-27 6:16 PM

 

Dave225 - 2016-03-27 3:35 PM

 

My wife's main gripe with the Fiat is that there is no 'creep' and when she stops on a hill if she is not quick the brakes disconnect quickly and the van rolls back. This does not happen with the torque system. I am still educating her in the use of the handbrake, as the car one is automatic.

 

Why not use the left foot for hill-holding, rather than the handbrake?

 

It may take a bit of getting used to.

 

Whenever driving automatics - either type - I now always use my left foot to operate the foot brake (osteoarthritis in my right knee plays up with the effort of constant braking) . But it sure makes pulling away on hills a sinch.

 

 

I have to be very careful what I say, or I will get my head in my hands from 'er indoors'. Dare I say that my dear lady has now become so used to the car where the handbrake is electric and automatically disengages, that trying to get her to use her right hand for the lever, is a bit tricky. Plus using her left foot would lead to all sorts of complications as again she never uses it with the torque drive. The thing that bugs me a bit is that the Fiat is supposed to be fitted with hill start but this only engages for 2 seconds, so you have to be pretty quick in moving the foot. Of course when I explained all this to her, the response was 'why do Fiat not do the same and have the brake automatic?' Why, indeed. Her other 'gripe' was why the foot brake is not larger, as with most automatics. Again I explained that it was the manual set up minus the clutch pedal. The look I received suggested that Fiat are idiots. What can one say?

[George Collings]

My current Renault tin box has an electronically controlled handbrake that you apply via a switch and if a gear is selected the handbrake computer senses clutch pedal movement and releases the handbrake. Once used to it its not bad but I still prefer a manual set up.

 

Over half a century ago when a sprog driver the workshop fore man used to take out in the lunch break in the firms van and said it was better to use handbrake than footbrake for hil or difficult junction restarts as it was quicker to use than transferring the right foot from accelerator to brake pedal in an emergency.

He is still around age 90+ and gave me an even more important item of advice. If you feel conditions are getting difficult slow down. It works Its kept me out of trouble so far.