WiFi locations

[Keith T]

Just returned from Abbey Wood CC site, (London), where they have now installed Wifi.......having never actually found this facility previously (although I understand the CC are currently 'piloting ' it on 4 sites) I enquired the cost. It was £6.00 for 60 mins, but with usage over a max of 24hours from the time of first logging in to it. This seemd to me rather expensive, although we were assured this was a standard cost, and CC were making nothing out of it. It would have been more realistic if it was available over say 3 days to a week, but 24hrs seemd too short a period. Has anyone come across this elsewhere, and how does the cost stack up? It's far cheaper (less secure of course) to use an internet cafe - in Central London 1hour cost £1.......! Also how secure is the WiFi system - can you for example do internet banking or order and make payments secreuly on it?

[derek500]

I've only used pay as you go Wi-Fi once at the campsite, “La Rouletta” in France near Biarritz. It cost 5€ for 30 minutes, which I thought was pretty steep.

[twooks]

so the prices are pretty much identical. and if one is raised by a commercial site it rather begs the question of the CC doing it at cost 'on behalf of its members' seems too big a markup over the internet cafes and similar, altho at least you can surf in comfort and private. B-)

[Dave Newell]

I've not had any experience of WiFi on caravan sites but £6 an hour sounds extortionate to me. how much does a broadband feed cost? Even for a business an 8Meg (where available) is only about £35 a month. Equipment and setup costs? well lets say they've installed a high spec server and the access points plus cabling etc, being generous lets say £2000. If it was in use for just 25% of the time it would raise nearly £92,000 a year. Take out the costs of setting it up and 12 months broadband costs, lets round it up to £2,500 that still brings in £89,500 in 12 months. How can this be non profit? Even if it is only used for 10% of the possible time it would still raise over £5000 giving a £2500 profit. D.

[Basil]

Hi All, I understand what you say Dave, but I think you have overestimated the costs. Any business with a Broadband connection (doesn't even have to be BT) can set up an openzone access point for under £200 and they get given £220 of vouchers to sell to their customers with the initial package so it actually pays for itself see www.businessshop.bt.com/invt/bcq135 You don't need any other eguipment and you don't have to manage it or have it affect your computer setup as you only give access to the WiFi via your router and your BBand connection. Might be of use to your customers Dave :-) :-) :-) Bas

[zulurita]

That's extortionate (!) I used WiFi in France, Austria & Slovenia. Mortagne-s-Gironde: Aires here and cafe nearby offers FREE WiFi although I bought a drink. They give you the code to access it. Austria: Stayed at Bruck near Zell-am-See at the Sport camp Woferglut as we were on a rally. There you can pay by day or week but day rate expensive but week rate was more cost effective, the actual price escapes me :-( however as I remember thinking it was expensive I asked at reception if I could pay for time online as I couldn't get a signal on my pitch. They said yes and I sat outside reception and did this twice whilst there and only cost me a couple of euros. Slovenia: Stayed at Camping Bled there you paid per day but was reasonable 2.50€ for 24 hours. Recently stayed one night at a campsite nr stonehenge there it was £5 but that was for 1 night or 1 week same price. Seems to me that the Caravan Club doesn't really look after its members all they are interested in is making BIG FAT PROFITS (!) Rita

[enodreven]

Hi, we found a few free Wifi connections while we were traveling around Belgium, Germany and Holland. The one I can remember immediately was the Campsite a Bruges, Also in the UK J D Wetherspoons are apparently offering free 30min wifi connection for each pint that you purchase, from what i have been told you have to ask for the access code when you by a drink and this gives you 30 mins access, I don't know if you can save these codes up for use later as i would suspect you may be able to pick up the Wifi signal in the car park, just a thought

[Don Madge]

This site will help you to find a Wifi Hotspot world wide http://www.totalhotspots.com/ Don

[olley]

Hi Wi-fi is severly limited by range, other m/h's, hills etc. to get decent coverage over the entire site they will need additional aerials, which is why a lot of sites limit it to the reception area. And what about contention ratios? Home broadband is normally 50 business I believe is 20, you are then going to share that with 20,30, or 40 odd site users in the morning or evening, even 8 meg is going to be slow. Yes I think £6 is over the top but maybe they have gone to town on the equipment, even if it was only a pound, if the connection was slow the wardens would get some real hassal. Olley

[Dave Newell]

I was allowing for a worst case scenario cost wise and allowing for them having several antennae positioned around the site by a professional installer but even with my OTT costings their charges still work out as little better than outright extortion. D.

[Mel B]

The Caravan Club is a business - a big one - they are not a Club, they are there to make money for themselves, despite what they proclaim, otherwise they would be a 'not for profit' organisation ... now there's a thought!!! If you don't agree with the charge don't use it, inconvenient yes, but better than paying the extortionate fee - you could get yourself a nice cafe chocca mocca latte (or whatever the heck they are called) in a posh internet cafe for that and hang out with the trendy crowd. B-)

[fjmike]

If the CC was really a club it could offer FREE wi fi see http://www.dspot.co.uk/free_wireless_hotspot_reseller.htm But we all know that CC is just about making money so it won't happen. I maybe mistaken but I thought that I had read somewhere that the EU had ruled that all camsites should provide wi fi.

[mom]

I travel a lot for business and use hotels while I'm away.  Nearly all the hotels I use have wifi in the bar area and to all the rooms.  Last week I stayed at the Holiday Inn Express in Bristol and paid £24.99 for one week's access.  The payment was done on the opening web page to Cloud Paygo, but it is similar with BT Openzone etc etc., at hotels and motorway services as I'm sure many of you know.  In these locations, the hotel or services have practically nothing to do with the WiFi provision.  Although prices may vary around that figure (I.ve paid up to £40 for a week), there is absolutly no excuse for providing the service at £6 per hour, except of course if the site has organised their own feed and are running it as a business like BT Openzone, which is what I suspect they are doing.  One question, though... were there any quoted rates for times greater than one hour?  Some providers allow you to buy a larger period time to be used at your discretion, so you don't lose any valuable time if you shut down.

I have been waiting for sites to get WiFi so that I can do things like create a long-weekend by arriving on site Friday morning, working quietly during the day, then switching to holiday mode middle of the afternoon.  Also, my wife wants to walk the Pennine Way next year and it would be brilliant if I could shadow her by working on site during the day and then picking her up after the day's walk and staying on site.  A win-win for everyone.  But not at £6 per hour! 

[John NG5]

Hi Don, I had a look at the website you recommended and noticed that a lot of the locations were McDonalds restaraunts. I have heard that all McDs around the world are wi-fi enabled. Would you know if this is correct and is there a seperate website for info about availability and costs? I'm sure that most contributers, at some time, pass by, or even stop to eat and use the facilities at one or more McDs on their travels. I always remember the joy, years ago, when my children spotted the big sign in the distance on French autoroutes. Thanks for all the info you provide on various topics, you are definitely the Oracle. Keepup the good work. John 8-)

[Pat P]

Hi all We are currently in the States minus the motorhome. We do however have our laptop with us. Almost every coffee shop, restaurant and hotel offers free wi-fi. We often sit outside and use it for short email checks. But for more serious stuff - like now - we go in and buy a coffee. or in the case of a hotel, ask if they mind. Just before we left we looked for wi-fi hot spots in our area and the Little Chef restaurants came up. Looks like more of rip off Britain again! Pat

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

I get really annoyed when I hear constant talk about 'Rip off Britain'. I'm a businessman and the only rip off in this country is our government. Taxes in the U.S. are a much lower than here, and I'm not just talking about income tax. There's employers' tax (what we would call National Insurance) and then things like Stamp Duty, Capital Gains tax, our incredibly generous provisons for pregnancy and of course VAT at a rate that Americans would find amazing.

Add to this land costs and very high rents and business rates and you realise why we can never have prices as low as in the U.S. A fairer comparison would be with similarly bloated Socialist economies, such as France and Sweden.

However, what I find really ironic is that the biggest moaners about 'Rip off Britain' are usually those in our bloated public sector. That army of state employees which has grown by half a million since this government came to power. We now have millions of public sector workers, thousands of whom are in stupid 'non-jobs' and all of whom are on guaranteed inflation-proofed pensions that will have to be paid by an ever-dwindling number of people in jobs that really produce something.

It isn't business that's responsible for 'Rip Off Britain', business is competitive and many of our private sector firms are as good as any in the world.

'Rip-off Britain' is the responsibilty of bloated government which seems happy to continue to pay out millions of pounds each year to the feckless and idle, which continues to invade every aspect of our lives with an ever-expanding number of jobsworths, inspectors and Health and Safety police.

Finally, a lovely example of how wrong the claims of 'Rip off Britain' can be. The U.S. retailer Wal-Mart is the world's biggest. Some years ago it bought Asda. Now of course if all British business was ripping off its customers one would expect Wal-Mart to come along and reduce all its prices to well below other companies such as Tesco and Sainsbury's. Have they? Have they hell! They too are faced with all of the same crippling costs that British businesses have to pay and on the level playing field that is the U.K. marketplace, they are struggling to compete with the afore-mentioned rivals.

[mom]

Frank, point taken, and I for one already know much of what you said.  However, there is an insidious practice in this country of "taking the piss" when it comes to customers.  These WiFi costs are one example.  Judging from what you said, most things being equal and competitive, costs should be similar from diferent vendors for the same product or service.  But whenever a sector or business in this country has a captive audience, profits are maximised through the roof!  I have always said, sell a piece of stick in this country, 20p.  Put a pointy end on it, £20.

Anyway, back to wifi.  I believe that if the CC desired to provide wifi, they could find a cheaper method.  If they wanted to!

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]John NG5 - 2006-11-25 1:04 PM Hi Don, I had a look at the website you recommended and noticed that a lot of the locations were McDonalds restaraunts. I have heard that all McDs around the world are wi-fi enabled. Would you know if this is correct and is there a seperate website for info about availability and costs? I'm sure that most contributers, at some time, pass by, or even stop to eat and use the facilities at one or more McDs on their travels. I always remember the joy, years ago, when my children spotted the big sign in the distance on French autoroutes. Thanks for all the info you provide on various topics, you are definitely the Oracle. Keepup the good work. John 8-)[/QUOTE] Hi John, See http://tinyurl.com/ylk6vp for a write up I did on hot spot detectors after a recent train trip to Istanbul. Don

[davebl]

Any one know if it is a frachised deal for CC ?

[Mel E]

Dave, I think you've got the point others may have missed. I doubt very much whether the CC have set this up themselves - they wouldn't have the technical expertise. So it's bound to be installed by a specialist and, whilst the CC will get something from the revenue. most goes to the franchise. Frankly, £6 per hour seems quite reasonable to me. On the other hand, they have just started installing free WiFi in Milton Keynes that will eventually cover the entire city (not just the Centre as now).

[Basil]

Hi All, I have contacted the Caravan Club re this and I am advised by them that the WiFi is BT Hotspot compatable, they did not say it was an Openworld Hotspot though, so is FREE to use for any BT Total Broadband user under their free monthly minutes allowance by logging on in the normal manner. Likewise anyone with a BT Openworld account (using another ISP) can use it at their normal rate. Furthermore the price of £6 is the same price as a BT Hotspot voucher for the same period of time, so is the standard price, but if you check out the BT website longer vouchers are cheaper and monthly subscriptions better value still. Obviously as I said in my earlier sentance if you are already a BT BB customer it is free anyway. At the end of the day it seems that the Caravan Club charges are the norm for BT Openworld Hotspot use and has nothing to do with CC policies on charging. Bas

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Frank Wilkinson - 2006-11-26 11:25 PM

I get really annoyed when I hear constant talk about 'Rip off Britain'. I'm a businessman and the only rip off in this country is our government. Taxes in the U.S. are a much lower than here, and I'm not just talking about income tax. There's employers' tax (what we would call National Insurance) and then things like Stamp Duty, Capital Gains tax, our incredibly generous provisons for pregnancy and of course VAT at a rate that Americans would find amazing.

Add to this land costs and very high rents and business rates and you realise why we can never have prices as low as in the U.S. A fairer comparison would be with similarly bloated Socialist economies, such as France and Sweden.

However, what I find really ironic is that the biggest moaners about 'Rip off Britain' are usually those in our bloated public sector. That army of state employees which has grown by half a million since this government came to power. We now have millions of public sector workers, thousands of whom are in stupid 'non-jobs' and all of whom are on guaranteed inflation-proofed pensions that will have to be paid by an ever-dwindling number of people in jobs that really produce something.

It isn't business that's responsible for 'Rip Off Britain', business is competitive and many of our private sector firms are as good as any in the world.

'Rip-off Britain' is the responsibilty of bloated government which seems happy to continue to pay out millions of pounds each year to the feckless and idle, which continues to invade every aspect of our lives with an ever-expanding number of jobsworths, inspectors and Health and Safety police.

Finally, a lovely example of how wrong the claims of 'Rip off Britain' can be. The U.S. retailer Wal-Mart is the world's biggest. Some years ago it bought Asda. Now of course if all British business was ripping off its customers one would expect Wal-Mart to come along and reduce all its prices to well below other companies such as Tesco and Sainsbury's. Have they? Have they hell! They too are faced with all of the same crippling costs that British businesses have to pay and on the level playing field that is the U.K. marketplace, they are struggling to compete with the afore-mentioned rivals.

[/QUOTE]

Well, Frank.  Off topic a bit I suppose, but can you then explain why mororhomes are so much cheaper in France and Germany than in UK?  Conventionally, these "Old Europe" countries are held to be much higher taxed than we are, which we are endlessly told is why our economy does so much better than theirs do.  Also be aware that the dear old US has just a bit of a fiscal deficit at present.  In other words the US government, including many of the State legislatures, have been overspending!  Since they have such low spending already, they'll have to increase taxes sooner or later to balance the books. 

Wal-Mart: come on!  Of course they aren't going to slash UK prices!  Granted, they'll fiddle with the pricing a bit to get the market share they want, but they'll export the difference between what they buy for worldwide, and what they can sell for in UK, back to their US shareholders just as quickly as they can!  We're just a (small) milch cow for them.

[mom]

Bas, I'm not overly familiar with BT Openworld, but have used BT Openzone a lot in hotels etc.  Is the service possibly BT Openzone?  If so, for my purposes, £40 per month is great.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

[QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2006-11-29 1:35 PM [QUOTE]Frank Wilkinson - 2006-11-26 11:25 PM

I get really annoyed when I hear constant talk about 'Rip off Britain'. I'm a businessman and the only rip off in this country is our government. Taxes in the U.S. are a much lower than here, and I'm not just talking about income tax. There's employers' tax (what we would call National Insurance) and then things like Stamp Duty, Capital Gains tax, our incredibly generous provisons for pregnancy and of course VAT at a rate that Americans would find amazing.

Add to this land costs and very high rents and business rates and you realise why we can never have prices as low as in the U.S. A fairer comparison would be with similarly bloated Socialist economies, such as France and Sweden.

However, what I find really ironic is that the biggest moaners about 'Rip off Britain' are usually those in our bloated public sector. That army of state employees which has grown by half a million since this government came to power. We now have millions of public sector workers, thousands of whom are in stupid 'non-jobs' and all of whom are on guaranteed inflation-proofed pensions that will have to be paid by an ever-dwindling number of people in jobs that really produce something.

It isn't business that's responsible for 'Rip Off Britain', business is competitive and many of our private sector firms are as good as any in the world.

'Rip-off Britain' is the responsibilty of bloated government which seems happy to continue to pay out millions of pounds each year to the feckless and idle, which continues to invade every aspect of our lives with an ever-expanding number of jobsworths, inspectors and Health and Safety police.

Finally, a lovely example of how wrong the claims of 'Rip off Britain' can be. The U.S. retailer Wal-Mart is the world's biggest. Some years ago it bought Asda. Now of course if all British business was ripping off its customers one would expect Wal-Mart to come along and reduce all its prices to well below other companies such as Tesco and Sainsbury's. Have they? Have they hell! They too are faced with all of the same crippling costs that British businesses have to pay and on the level playing field that is the U.K. marketplace, they are struggling to compete with the afore-mentioned rivals.

[/QUOTE]

Well, Frank.  Off topic a bit I suppose, but can you then explain why mororhomes are so much cheaper in France and Germany than in UK?  Conventionally, these "Old Europe" countries are held to be much higher taxed than we are, which we are endlessly told is why our economy does so much better than theirs do.  Also be aware that the dear old US has just a bit of a fiscal deficit at present.  In other words the US government, including many of the State legislatures, have been overspending!  Since they have such low spending already, they'll have to increase taxes sooner or later to balance the books. 

Wal-Mart: come on!  Of course they aren't going to slash UK prices!  Granted, they'll fiddle with the pricing a bit to get the market share they want, but they'll export the difference between what they buy for worldwide, and what they can sell for in UK, back to their US shareholders just as quickly as they can!  We're just a (small) milch cow for them.

[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to argue about specific products as they will always vary from country to country. Motorhomes in Holland for instance offer little, if any savings. What I really object to is the constant prattle by people who have never had to run a business in their lives, or even worked in a business. The people that I know who moan the most about Britain seem to be the ones in the public sector where, if you are inefficent and can't balance the books, you just bang a few pence on the council tax or any other tax for that matter.

By coincidence, on the morning that I wrote my post, the lead story in the financial pages was that one in five British-based  multinationals is considering moving its headquarters out of the UK because the tax burden (30% corporation tax for instance) is far too onerous compared to other countries.

The cost of running a business in the US, is far lower than in this crowded little island, where land and property prices are several times higher than that country. This coupled with our high taxation and welfare-based society is crippling many firms. Currently 5 million people of working age rely on some kind of state benefit - that must be about 20-25% of the working population!

Business is generally self-levelling. If there are big profits to be had there is always someone who will try to capitalise on the market by offering a lower price.

As for your ludicrous Wal-Mart statement, you suggest that they could, if they wished, undercut Tesco et al but that they are happy with their minority market share! You obviously know nothing of the ethos of this company! It faces saturation in its home market and is currently expanding into India where it looks to have just outbid Tesco in a partnership with a leading Indian retailer. Wal-Mart's entire business stragety has been based on offering the lowest prices, in all of its stores, in all of the countries in which it operates. In this country it has found that it is in the same high-tax, high rent situation of all of its rivals and look at the result!

Finally, there is no such thing as 'Rip off Britain'. Anyone who really knows anything about business knows that we are in one of the most competitive markets in the world. Yes, there will always be the exception but ask yourself this. If a certain brands of motorhome for example is much cheaper in Germany, why isn't that manufacturer cleaning up by selling his product in this country at prices far below his rivals? He would soon have a massive market share. Why content himself with selling a thousand when he could sell ten thousand when the increased volume would again, reduce all of his costs even more. Could it be that when he sets up such an operation in this country he knows full well that our taxes and other costs will level the playing field significantly.

What we do have is a rip off government, groaning under the weight of millions of surplus and unnecessary public-sector jobs which will one day sink this country's economy completely.

[Basil]

Hi mom, Yes of course you are correct, Openworld is/ was the name of whole BT Internet company Openzone is the WiFi Hotspot product part of it. Sorry senior moment I think they call that! Have to say £40 per month to me sounds a lot to me as I get the free WiFi with my Broadband that costs around £20 per month!! Bas