Which sat nav is best?

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi again.

further update re copilot, etc

 

can anyone state whether or not, any satnav will allow near misses, and then automatically reroute if you continue to ignore repeated turn back instructions.

as far as I can see, to solve the 'near miss' problem, I have always had to remove the 'missed'location by turning off the device, and then stopping and reprogramming the next location..this of course seems obvious as the device doesnt have the intelligence to recognise Near miss situation. What would constitute a near miss , 100 yards, 250 yards, etc?

 

Re copilot on my tablet, as mentioned previously, I have to devise a suitable mounting option..as sticky tape didnt last very long. The audio volume from the tablet was passable, but should be louder ..winding up hearing aids simply brought up road noise as well! Further thoughts needed.

 

re snooper, even setting it as a car device, it still insisted we took motorways whenever possible.. .

 

the gift of tomtom start with france maps installed was useful as I was able to add my own poi for france passion and aires. The downside was the a route could only have 3 waypoints as a limit, so each day had to be reset for the next stage of journey..not ideal, but feasible.Trying to follow the relatively minor roads up the Creuse valley on the way home was not as easy as I had hoped,

 

we did find a few of the France Passion sites, but the one at Croze didnt seem to have anyone in charge.

 

we did find one a bit further north, at the cider museum, and this was well worth the visit

 

overall, the three devices, Snooper, Tomtom, and Copilot all contributed some help, but the best of all was undoubtedly common sense and the Michelin bookmaps

 

tonyg3nwl

 

 

[Will86]

Error

[Brian Kirby]

Matrix Meanderer - 2016-06-29 11:53 PM

 

Matrix Meanderer - 2016-06-29 2:11 PM

 

Just a point but whichever sat nav you chose I suggest you check exactly when (ie which month) the mapping updates to ACSI etc are issued.

 

I now know that SNOOPER issue their updates in November and June. The Ventura mapping update was made available today on their website and I am currently downloading it.

 

This is the update that contains the 2016 ACSI sites data that ACSI issued in hard copy and soft copy in December 2015.

 

Yes I know you can use the app and the website or the book but surely Snooper are providing very poor customer service by making us wait to June for an update that was available last December!

 

Caveat emptor :-D

 

UPDATE: Just finished loading the Snooper update and all the campsite maps are dated 03/2016 - nearly four months old. WHY??

 

Will be buying any sat nav that offers a true "updating" service not the poor belated, delayed service that Snooper offer.

Only parts of maps are updated, not everything. Consider: first new road, a changed priority, a new one way street, speed limit, whatever, has to be changed. The change has to be notified. The mapping has to be revised. The revision has to be published. These changes take place more or less continually all over Europe, so the number of changes is huge. It is logistically impossible, at the prices charged, that the whole mapset for the whole of Europe could be maintained "up to the minute" accurate. How many updates per year does Snooper release? Most others seem to be about four times. So, logically, there will inevitably be elements of the map that are at least three months old alongside more recent changes. However, due to the above delays in translating events on the ground into mapping on your device I would not be complaining too much about map data that is six months old. Where I get grumpy is when driving down a road that has clearly been in existence for well over a year, and it still hasn't been mapped. I think you're being a wee bit unrealistic in what you expect for your money. They get there in the end, but instant it isn't. As to ACSI, try getting the DVD for the year. It lists all the inspected sites as well as the discount card sites, and has GPS co-ordinates for all. Can you set your Snooper to navigate to co-ordinates? It would overcome the out of date data on the Snooper, and will also get you up to date on which sites are doing the discount, and at what rate.

[Derek Uzzell]

tonyg3nwl - 2016-07-02 8:31 PM

 

...can anyone state whether or not, any satnav will allow near misses, and then automatically reroute if you continue to ignore repeated turn back instructions.

as far as I can see, to solve the 'near miss' problem, I have always had to remove the 'missed'location by turning off the device, and then stopping and reprogramming the next location..this of course seems obvious as the device doesnt have the intelligence to recognise Near miss situation. What would constitute a near miss , 100 yards, 250 yards, etc?...

 

 

When a sat-nav’s route is programmed with intermediate waypoints within it, the logical assumption is that the driver will actually want to arrive at each waypoint. I don’t think there is any tolerance in a waypoint’s coordinates - you either arrive at the specified waypoint or you don’t and, in the latter case, if a waypoint is ‘missed’ the sat-nav will continue to direct the driver back to that waypoint indefinitely. That’s what my Garmin nuvi 2559 does and I’ve never found a way to overcome this other than to do as you do and reprogram.

[Matrix Meanderer]

Brian Kirby - 2016-07-03 7:49 PM

 

Matrix Meanderer - 2016-06-29 11:53 PM

 

Matrix Meanderer - 2016-06-29 2:11 PM

 

Just a point but whichever sat nav you chose I suggest you check exactly when (ie which month) the mapping updates to ACSI etc are issued.

 

I now know that SNOOPER issue their updates in November and June. The Ventura mapping update was made available today on their website and I am currently downloading it.

 

This is the update that contains the 2016 ACSI sites data that ACSI issued in hard copy and soft copy in December 2015.

 

Yes I know you can use the app and the website or the book but surely Snooper are providing very poor customer service by making us wait to June for an update that was available last December!

 

Caveat emptor :-D

 

UPDATE: Just finished loading the Snooper update and all the campsite maps are dated 03/2016 - nearly four months old. WHY??

 

Will be buying any sat nav that offers a true "updating" service not the poor belated, delayed service that Snooper offer.

Only parts of maps are updated, not everything. Consider: first new road, a changed priority, a new one way street, speed limit, whatever, has to be changed. The change has to be notified. The mapping has to be revised. The revision has to be published. These changes take place more or less continually all over Europe, so the number of changes is huge. It is logistically impossible, at the prices charged, that the whole mapset for the whole of Europe could be maintained "up to the minute" accurate. How many updates per year does Snooper release? Most others seem to be about four times. So, logically, there will inevitably be elements of the map that are at least three months old alongside more recent changes. However, due to the above delays in translating events on the ground into mapping on your device I would not be complaining too much about map data that is six months old. Where I get grumpy is when driving down a road that has clearly been in existence for well over a year, and it still hasn't been mapped. I think you're being a wee bit unrealistic in what you expect for your money. They get there in the end, but instant it isn't. As to ACSI, try getting the DVD for the year. It lists all the inspected sites as well as the discount card sites, and has GPS co-ordinates for all. Can you set your Snooper to navigate to co-ordinates? It would overcome the out of date data on the Snooper, and will also get you up to date on which sites are doing the discount, and at what rate.

 

Good points Brian. To the best of my knowledge, Snooper only update twice a year. And yes of course you can set up site coordinates on the snooper gleaned from either the app, the book or the DVD. I have asked the company that sells the Snooper to consider revising their update schedules so that the new year ACSI, Bord Atlas et al listings are included in say a January or February update rather than a June update as happens at present. I have received a polite "we'll think about it" type response which I guess is the best we can hope for. At least there might be some realisation in the commercial company that their paying customers would like earlier updates. I am not however holding my breath 8-)

[Hughmer]

This has been a very interesting thread. The range of interest and breadth of knowledge is always impressive.

 

The OP was about "the best sat nav out their (sic) specifically for motorhomes"...

 

Oh goody I thought. This is going to tell me which Tom Tom to buy as a replacement for my old GO 720. I say that because I've invested quite a bit of time collecting, editing and reformatting my eclectic range of POIs over the years, - now all as .ov2 & .bmp ....... ready to load (and more relevant to my interests than preloaded stuff). Quantity & availability of 3rd party POIs - and ease of installation were the reasons I bought TT in the 1st place all those years ago. Then Garmin weren't well supported or regarded, and old habits die hard, so I thought I'd naturally migrate to a newer, sparklier TT. ... But one that recognises the size & weight of my vehicle

 

TT has supporters, but many of the responses have been critical about the limitations of the latest TomToms. The thread has highlighted the difficulties of displaying identifiable POIs and there now seems to be another set of file extensions to worry about as well, - not to mention that you can't import your own POIs unless you're on line, and .bmps not at all.

 

Tonyishuk's appraisal is an exceptionally detailed critique. Thanks for going to so much trouble in warning the rest of us.

 

Not to outdone, - I too have a rubbish experience of TT when I upgraded to the new "All Europe" Map (early days). Before taking my money, TT didn't warn me that the internal storage wasn't big enough for the new map and I had to buy a SD card . After about a week of phone calls to Amsterdam and many late nights repetitively deleting downloading & reinstalling the map, it worked eventually, but of course as the map info is on an sd card now - everything's a bit slower, so you get the command to exit the roundabout after you've made the turn, - (or on your second orbit).

 

I read a recent post on a review site that TT map upgrades / storage space is still an issue, - and also that TT (like nostalgia) are not what they used to be. It makes me wonder why TT still sell as many units as they do.... can't be just branding, - can it?

 

Notwithstanding Will86's enthusiasm for his paraffin driven Navman the choice for a handheld (not tablet based) PNG seems to be between Garmin & TT. Assuming both provide accurate routes, the choice for me comes down to

1) is it a dedicated MH / truck unit

2) the ease of installing 3rd party POIs and how they're displayed.

3) how maps are updated / cost / frequency

4) traffic info: How it gets to the PND (web or DAB, & costs associated)

5) screen size & cab connectivity

 

Please could any Garmin enthusiast tell me...

Is it that the Garmin 660 MTD is the best PND for MH owners?

 

What file extensions do Garmins accept?

Could I re translate my library of .ov2 format

Can I install POIs from my computer via a cable or network without being in on or under a cloud?

Can I set up "early warnings" for ... er... um.. "safety" cameras?

(Way2Go the TT Guru told me how to do this eons ago. It still works on my unit. .... If you're tuning in Barry, - thanks for your tutorials and don't forget, - talcum powder stops the lederhosen chafing)

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Hughmer - 2016-07-27 5:36 PM............................................Please could any Garmin enthusiast tell me...

Is it that the Garmin 660 MTD is the best PND for MH owners?

 

What file extensions do Garmins accept?

Could I re translate my library of .ov2 format

Can I install POIs from my computer via a cable or network without being in on or under a cloud?

Can I set up "early warnings" for ... er... um.. "safety" cameras?

(Way2Go the TT Guru told me how to do this eons ago. It still works on my unit. .... If you're tuning in Barry, - thanks for your tutorials and don't forget, - talcum powder stops the lederhosen chafing)

 

Many thanks

Well, I'm a Garmin user, but I'd hesitate to admit to being an enthusiast! :-) They are OK, and they do their job reasonably well, but they aren't perfect, and they do silly things at times - but they're getting better.

 

File extensions for Garmin devices? .gpx However, if you download either of MapSource (PC only) or BaseCamp (Mac or PC) from Garmin's website (both free), and then set the first map update to install on your computer and your device, you will get a copy of the mapping onto your computer with which you can open .gdb, .gpx, .mps, .tcs, and .loc files. Once you've done this you can open the files in any of these formats and re-save them as .gpx ready to transfer to your device.

 

Have you discovered "GPS babel" (assuming it still exists!)? It is/was a freely downloadable program that converts file formats from one to another for the main GPS manufacturers, and also to/from .csv format (can be opened/read with Excel but must be left in .csv format and not saved as Excel {.xls or .xlsx} files). You should be able to take your POI files from .ov2 straight to .gpx via GPS babel, to load straight to your Garmin device via Garmin POI loader (another free download).

 

POI Loader is Garmin's program for loading POI files (which must be in .gpx format) from PC/Mac direct to Garmin devices via USB cable. This is the same cable that is used for map and firmware updates, and generally ships with the device. So, no "cloud" (or internet) connection required for POI management.

 

Better, once you have the POIs plus the mapping on your computer, you can view them on the map on-screen via MapSource or BaseCamp and, if you really want to check they are in the right place, you can pull down a "View in Google Earth" window that will open Google earth and "fly" to the location of the POI, enabling its position to be adjusted to within about 2.0 metres accuracy. Once in that view, you can, of course switch into and out of Google Streets to get an idea of whether it is, actually, the right place - and whether it looks as though it is still extant. Useful at times!

 

Warnings for speed cameras/black spots. Don't know. I've switched them off as the info is illegal in much of mainland Europe where we mainly travel, and also because they get moved around, just as speed limits get changed, and I'd sooner look out for the warnings and the actual speed limit signs directly rather than rely on what may be misleading and out of date information. My choice, my licence! :-)

 

Finally, I think that Garmin device may be the Garmin Camper 660 LMT-D? Personally, I think I'll look at a Garmin Drive 60 LM, which seems to have all I think I want from a sat-nav, and avoids the problems that arise with units that in any case have no road width data to work from, so merely route down main roads on the assumption they must be wide enough for large vehicles. However, that attitude might change if I were driving a larger van - especially if wider/taller! Hope this helps.

[Hughmer]

Hello Brian

Your detailed response is greatly appreciated

I had got the Garmin model wrong . It was 660 LMT-D as you correctly said

 

I downloaded babel. It's similar to "POI Edit" which I used to create my .ov2 files.

I experimented with babel tonight but couldn't find a .gpx output ..

*.gpi is an option as is "Garmin POI database". I tried the latter but the converted file appeared without an extension. I'll re-read your instructions and try later after a few gins.

 

What of the icons? In TomTom the .ov2 datafile contains all the lat long stuff and a .bmp (of the same name as the ov2) creates the icon. Do you know how does the Garmin system work?

 

Thanks also for the steer to the 60 LM. lots cheaper, but you have perplexed me.. I thought the camper/truck databases offered usefuls like low bridges and stuff like that. As I get older I become more cautious. Do you think I'm over doing it? I'm heavy (4.6T) but small (6.8 x 3m high) Only once (in Italy) have I ever encountered a bridge too low to pass so perhaps I don't need the "limit" info...? I just thought it would be a cute extra.. Thanks once more

[Barcobird]

Hi fellow forumites, thank you all for posting a lot of invaluable information some if it a little bit too much for my brain to take on board.

I get the feeling that maybe the Garmin is pressing ahead and seems more suitable for motorhomes against other makes.

I am still a little undecided with vehicle size input, some have mentioned it has kept them away from narrow little Lanes and others said it sent them miles around where they were going to avoid something that they could have quite easily driven down.

The final confusing issue is points of interest etc, it seems that you need a home computer to enter anything of interest onto your satnav and it gets complicated (to me) about changing csv and ov2's etc etc. I am sure it will all make sense when I actually buy one and use it.

 

BUT I still don't know which one *-)

 

Peter

[Brian Kirby]

Hughmer - 2016-07-27 8:00 PM

 

Hello Brian

Your detailed response is greatly appreciated

I had got the Garmin model wrong . It was 660 LMT-D as you correctly said

I thought that might be the case. I can't comment on the actual model as I have no experience of it.

 

I downloaded babel. It's similar to "POI Edit" which I used to create my .ov2 files.

I experimented with babel tonight but couldn't find a .gpx output ..

*.gpi is an option as is "Garmin POI database". I tried the latter but the converted file appeared without an extension. I'll re-read your instructions and try later after a few gins.

Well, intuitive it ain't, if it's anything like the one I downloaded in 2009. Sort of DOS program. I fiddled and eventually got what I wanted from .csv into one of the acceptable Garmin formats. Thereafter, I haven't touched it as, once in the readable format for MapSource, I could play around with the POIs as much as I wanted. Does it give a .gdb output? If so, and you download Mapsource, providing you have the mapping downloaded to your computer you should be able to open the .gdb and then "save as" .gpx. It works, but it isn't exactly intuitive either. However, it's not too bad once you begin to get used to it.

 

What of the icons? In TomTom the .ov2 datafile contains all the lat long stuff and a .bmp (of the same name as the ov2) creates the icon. Do you know how does the Garmin system work?

Apparently one can, but I've never had the patience to find out how. All my POIs are grouped into sets, so if I want a French supermarket I open the set for those. Then I know the little flag on the Garmin is a supermarket. Having got to that point, I decided enough was enough! :-)

 

Thanks also for the steer to the 60 LM. lots cheaper, but you have perplexed me.. I thought the camper/truck databases offered usefuls like low bridges and stuff like that. As I get older I become more cautious. Do you think I'm over doing it? I'm heavy (4.6T) but small (6.8 x 3m high) Only once (in Italy) have I ever encountered a bridge too low to pass so perhaps I don't need the "limit" info...? I just thought it would be a cute extra.. Thanks once more

What you get is information on legal restrictions (weight, length, width) plus height warnings. Ours was 3.7T, but I've just plated it down to 3.5 as it never ran above that figure and the restrictions above 3.5T are irritating. Ours is also only a bit over 2.7 high, so I'm less concerned about height obstructions - though we've met one or two down to 2.5M! Just turn away, Whittington. Bridge vs. camper = bridge wins! :-D So, I've eschewed the more expensive truck type sat navs in favour of a few upsets from time to time. But then, we're only 2.15 wide as well, so the width isn't such a concern - usually. Though we've been down a few roads where we were touching the vegetation both sides simultaneously! Fortunately, we didn't meet farmer Giles with his new combine coming the other way. Luck plays a certain part in all of this. So far so good, as the man said as he plummeted off the Empire State Building! :-D

[Brian Kirby]

Barcobird - 2016-07-27 8:20 PM.....................I am still a little undecided with vehicle size input, some have mentioned it has kept them away from narrow little Lanes and others said it sent them miles around where they were going to avoid something that they could have quite easily driven down.

The mapping only contains information on legal restrictions, but there are miles and miles of roads that are narrow, but have no legal restriction on vehicle width. So, a sat nav like mine will use them if they present a faster route. To avoid the truck type sat navs doing likewise, in the absence of actual road with data, it seems the routing logic is set to prioritise major roads, which are unlikely to be narrow, then using more minor roads for only the minimum distance to the destination. So, the distances travelled are likely to be greater than with a car type sat nav. It depends in part where you are at the time how risky that may be. A look at a decent map should give an idea of the nature of the roads the sat nav has selected, and the introduction of a waypoint will then pull it onto a more sensible route. It is man and machine in harmony - you just can't trust the machine, they're far too mischievous!

 

The final confusing issue is points of interest etc, it seems that you need a home computer to enter anything of interest onto your satnav and it gets complicated (to me) about changing csv and ov2's etc etc. I am sure it will all make sense when I actually buy one and use it......................Peter

Each sat nav has a "native" file format that it reads. The POI files that you load onto it therefore need to be in the correct format for that make of sat nav. Hughmer has his POI's in .ov2 format for TomTom, but is considering buying a Garmin that requires a .gpx format. So, he's looking for a means to convert his files from one to the other. Otherwise it'd be rather like trying to open a Word file in Excel.

 

If you're starting from scratch, as you seem to be, you shouldn't need to convert formats - unless you get POI files from somewhere that are in the wrong format. Wouldn't worry about that for now as it is unlikely to be a major problem anytime soon, if ever.

 

Generally, you can insert waypoints directly onto the devices and them save them for future use, so the PC based map and POI manipulations aren't essential. AFAIK these are only possible with Garmin devices because Garmin facilitates copying the mapping to a computer. Once you get the hang of the (somewhat non-intuitive) Garmin programs, they do offer the advantages I sketched out above. One doesn't need to get into that degree of complexity at the start, but it might be worth considering buying a sat nav that gives one the facility to do so, in case one may wish to do so later.

[Barcobird]

Thanks Brian, very informative and helpful as ever.

 

So with all things considered and going back to my first post it seems that I havearrived at two options both from Garmin.

The nuvicam lmt-d which has everything except for camping sites and size input or the camper 660lmt-d which has everything except for the dash cam. Why can't they make a camper version with a built in dash cam. I could of course buy the camper version and use a separate dash cam but that is more clutter, more cables and more to steal!

 

Maybe they will introduce one in time for Christmas (lol)

[StuartO]

Barcobird - 2016-07-28 8:32 AM...Why can't they make a camper version with a built in dash cam. I could of course buy the camper version and use a separate dash cam but that is more clutter, more cables and more to steal!Maybe they will introduce one in time for Christmas (lol)

Fortunately the drop in prices of satnavs and the fact that most cars (and MHs) have them has made them a poor prospect for stealing and not really worth the bother.  I no longer bother to hide mine away.

 

As for combination units (eg satnavs with dashcams) there is a danger that the jack of all trades does neither very well so I'm happy to put up with multiple trailing cables as necessary - although I do recognise that some people just can't stand clutter of any sort. 

 

[Hughmer]

Spoke to Garmin & TT this morning on question of 3rd Party POI

 

TT say display issue of individual icons on the 5000/6000 series still not resolved. (!) WHAT (!) They are apparently working it. I proposed what I would do with the development team if I were CEO and the call handler said he would pass my suggestion on to his supervisors!

 

Garmin say their "POI loader" accommodates individual icons per data set. So after many years as a TT supporter I'm off to buy a Garmin and I can amuse myself translating all my ov2 files on the ferry next week.

 

I said earlier that my 720 GO had insufficient memory for a new map and I've been noting the current "Halfords" thread regarding memory.

 

Garmin tell me the 760 LMT-D has 8Gb spare internal / expandable by 32gb (SD) which sounds big enough to accommodate future updates... Hmmmmmm watch this space.

 

To Barcobird, I agree wih StuartO and others. The flexibility of individual units being in the most convenient place in the van / on the dash outweighs the anti clutter argument.

[tonyishuk]

A word of caution regarding GPX files. There is are differing formats , it seems that the new range of Tomtoms can read the old GPX data but export it in the newer form. (I think ?)

 

Also same is happening with Geocache GPX data. When I get near a PC, I might investigate the difference.

 

I only mention this as some of the older POI converters only convert to old GPX format. If you need the new format, the routing app Tyre will save in both GPX formats.

 

Tyre is quite a useful Tomtom routing program , sorry App, .

 

Rgds

[goldi]

tonyishuk - 2016-06-23 1:00 PM

 

Being of a certain age,I am just silver surfing nerd, who enjoys a challenge :D

 

Started off with a BBC micro computer and it went downhill from there.

 

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

Good afternoon,

 

Well whats wrong with that, How many motorhomes do you pass where the co driver has the map on her knee. We always have a compass and map and only use the sat nav when near. We shall be rearing a generation of people who know how to get to a place but do not have the faintest idea where it is.

 

 

norm

[gmacz]

Get a decent sat nav and you will know where it is, you will be standing in it.

I use a tomtom but am moving to android phone and tablet, much quicker and overall better and i think it is the way forward.

[Barcobird]

goldi - 2016-07-28 5:26 PM

 

tonyishuk - 2016-06-23 1:00 PM

 

Being of a certain age,I am just silver surfing nerd, who enjoys a challenge :D

 

Started off with a BBC micro computer and it went downhill from there.

 

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

Good afternoon,

 

Well whats wrong with that, How many motorhomes do you pass where the co driver has the map on her knee. We always have a compass and map and only use the sat nav when near. We shall be rearing a generation of people who know how to get to a place but do not have the faintest idea where it is.

 

 

norm

 

Well Norm they obviously didn't have my wife sat next to them (lol)

 

Sat nav is the only way to go, if you want to get there! Don't confuse me with other options 8-)

 

I have made my mind up, I think, on a Garmin camper 660lmt-d but.... I have now found a 760lmt-d which is the same but with a bigger screen. Will it make that much difference, they do say bigger is better :-D

[Hughmer]

I've ordered a 760. Due on Monday

Garmin say an improvement on the 660 is that you can connect your smartphone - and use your data allowance to get improved traffic info.

 

 

 

 

[Hughmer]

I'm a bit worried about Tonyishuk's advice on gpx formats.

 

If I've read it right TomTom Tyre seems to be an app shipped with particular TomTom models (Rider ? ) Forgive me not googling it to death. I'm sure there are those on here who have already invented the wheel.

 

I'll try my old friend "POI edit" and see if its' output can be read by my new device. UNLESS anyone out there can propose another converter that will provide the format for my new Garmin.

[Bulletguy]

Hughmer - 2016-07-30 1:00 PM

 

I've ordered a 760. Due on Monday

Garmin say an improvement on the 660 is that you can connect your smartphone - and use your data allowance to get improved traffic info.

 

You won't be disappointed.

 

I bought one on offer in Aldi last year (£199). A few month later someone on this forum posted he'd just bought his from Aldi for £150!!!

 

They have more than just ACSI sites loaded too. I was in a remote area of Scotland and mine showed a small farm with space for 6 caravans or m/homes a few miles from where i was parked up. The audio is excellent too.