Downplating via Hymer

[Brian Kirby]

When we bought our present van I opted for 3,700kg MAM in lieu of the standard 3,500kg, as I thought it might turn up heavy. It didn't, and I have kept an eye on its fully laden weight over the past three years and, despite running with two 13kg steel gas cylinders and a full fresh water tank, and having added a wind-out awning, it has never exceeded 3,500kg - though it has sometimes been close. Neither axle is close to its permissible load either, front 1640kg or less actual, max 1850kg: rear 1860 or less actual, max 2,000kg. So, legally OK.

 

However, I have found the incidence of 3.5 tonne weight limits greater than I had anticipated, and the necessity to maintain my "grandfather rights" to drive over 3,500kg an expensive and somewhat time consuming faff. Added to this are the lower speed limits for vehicles over 3,500kg in certain countries, most notably Germany, with which I was inclined to take "liberties" as our actual weight was below that limit.

 

So, when my driving licence renewal reminder arrived I decided to get the van plated down to 3,500 kg, which I also reasoned would make it easier to sell when the time comes. It increases the VED by £75 per year, but gets rid of all the other irritations, which I judged the greater factor.

 

I therefore approached Premier Motorhomes who, being ever helpful, said they could get a revised plate from Hymer. The advantage of this, I reasoned, being that Hymer would also alter their records, so that any other dealer checking its credentials would see that the new MAM came from the factory. Both the Fiat VIN plate, and AlKo's chassis plate, in any case stated 3,500kg, so only the Hymer plate, which is a transfer applied to the side valance behind nearside (LHD) the rear wheel, needed alteration.

 

It took just over two weeks for the new plate to arrive from Hymer. Peeling away the original and substituting the new took about 20 minutes, and I then commenced the procedure to change the taxation class from Private Heavy Goods to Private Light Goods (PLG).

 

Paperwork submitted to DVLA on 13 July, new V5C arrived 25 July.

 

Applied for new driving licence without C1/C1E 26 July: arrived in today's post.

 

Probably not the cheapest route, as Hymer charged just short of £300 for the substitute plate, but I thought the cost worthwhile as it maintains an authentic Hymer plate on a vehicle that is only three years old.

 

Didn't DVLA do well, though! :-D

[colin]

Did Hymer ask for an additional fee for the first upgrade? Couple of times people have asked about uplifting Maxi vans such as Campscout from new.

[starvin marvin]

Interesting, but I think when my paperwork arrives from the DVLA later this year I'll stick with my existing, as you say "grandfather" rights. Our Hymer is plated at 4000kg and I currently have no idea how close to that limit we get, guess I should get it weighed, we've already had it 2 years!

[RubyExsis]

Another interesting post, Brian.

I also decided to lose my 'grandfather rights' this year as I really would not want to go bigger than my ageing Exsis, which I have found difficult to replace given its size and practicality from my perspective.

What an eye watering cost for a little sticker plate from Hymer!!

One of our owner group members decided he would like a new one to replace his scuffed and peeling one and was so pleased that he could get one that he forgot to ask the cost. When it arrived with an invoice he was shocked.....Hymer were very good as they allowed him to return it and quashed the invoice.

I understand, of course, that your needs were different as you wanted to put everything in order.

Fred

[StuartO]

£300 for a replacement sticker does seem a bit steep but I suppose it is a specially printed sticker and someone has to spend some time configuring the computer to print the correct serial number.

 

When I bought my new Hymer (via Bundesvan) in 2006 I asked for the downgrade sticker almost as an afterthought and they supplied it free of charge - either that or Bundesvan stood the cost.

 

You can buy silver sticky label sheets for printing on a laser printer and I suspect printing one yourself wouldn't be impossible.

 

[StuartO]

£300 for a replacement sticker does seem a bit steep but I suppose it is a specially printed sticker and someone has to spend some time configuring the computer to print the correct serial number.

 

When I bought my new Hymer (via Bundesvan) in 2006 I asked for the downgrade sticker almost as an afterthought and they supplied it free of charge - either that or Bundesvan stood the cost.

 

You can buy silver sticky label sheets for printing on a laser printer and I suspect printing one yourself wouldn't be impossible.

 

[Brock]

Thanks for this, Brian. For the last two years I have been considering going the other way but because most of my load is on the rear and the style of motorhoming we tend to do, I'm yet to be convinced I'll get any real benefit. Over 3500kg bans me from the Mersey Tunnel that goes to Liverpool city centre, and doubles the toll at the other tunnel. Neither is significant as I get a free travel pass within Merseyside and infrequently use the tunnels.

 

My van is 100kg heavier than yours based on the Hymer 2013 brochure. We've added semi air suspension on the rear plus an extra battery. We come in at 1560kg [front max 2000kg] and 1877kg [rear max 2000kg] on 15" alloys. However, a second passenger or full water tanks puts us over the 3500kg limit.

 

I've never considered price to be the only cost to be considered so getting a Hymer plate makes sense to me.

[lennyhb]

We went the other way gave up trying to run our Exsis at 3500 and uprated to 3850 we still always on or just over the 2000kg rear axle limit, problem appears to be Hymers have a light front about a 100kg lighter than similar sized Carthago.

 

Brian Kirby - 2016-07-29 8:06 PM

It took just over two weeks for the new plate to arrive from Hymer. Peeling away the original and substituting the new took about 20 minutes,

Isn't that illegal, when changing the weight of a vehicle the new plate should be fixed in a different position so that both plates as visible. My 3500 plate is on the side of the van the new 3500kg plate is on the step surround inside the drivers door.

[Brian Kirby]

colin - 2016-07-29 8:56 PM

 

Did Hymer ask for an additional fee for the first upgrade? Couple of times people have asked about uplifting Maxi vans such as Campscout from new.

It was a standard option, Colin. €250 in 2013.

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2016-07-30 2:24 PM.......................Isn't that illegal, when changing the weight of a vehicle the new plate should be fixed in a different position so that both plates as visible. My 3500 plate is on the side of the van the new 3500kg plate is on the step surround inside the drivers door.

Don't really see why it should be, Lenny, as the change was made by Hymer, who are the "finisher" under the EU multi-stage vehicle completion type approval procedure. After all, Hymer didn't apply two plates to the van when they originally uprated it, one for 3.5 tonnes and the other for 3.7 tonnes, reflecting the fact that it had been uprated. Both the Fiat and the AlKo plates under the bonnet still say, and have always said, 3,500kg, and as you know Hymer don't apply their plate in that location. All that has happened is that the van now appears as it would have had I not opted for the 3,700 uplift in the first place, and Hymer's vehicle build record will also reflect that.

 

I'll be seeing George Collings in a couple of weeks time so, as he's ex police, he'll probably arrest me and hand me over to the local constabulary as soon as I arrive. If I suddenly disappear off here after that, find out where they've sent me and sand a food parcel would you? :-D

[lennyhb]

:D :D :D :D

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2016-08-02 8:03 PM

lennyhb - 2016-07-30 2:24 PM.......................Isn't that illegal, when changing the weight of a vehicle the new plate should be fixed in a different position so that both plates as visible. My 3500 plate is on the side of the van the new 3500kg plate is on the step surround inside the drivers door.

Don't really see why it should be, Lenny, as the change was made by Hymer, who are the "finisher" under the EU multi-stage vehicle completion type approval procedure. After all, Hymer didn't apply two plates to the van when they originally uprated it, one for 3.5 tonnes and the other for 3.7 tonnes, reflecting the fact that it had been uprated. Both the Fiat and the AlKo plates under the bonnet still say, and have always said, 3,500kg, and as you know Hymer don't apply their plate in that location. All that has happened is that the van now appears as it would have had I not opted for the 3,700 uplift in the first place, and Hymer's vehicle build record will also reflect that. ....

I tow trailers which have a higher weight capacity than my towing vehicle is rated for by the manufacturer, so I asked the trailer supplier what I needed to do.  In order to satisfy the police if you get stopped you need to have marked the trailer, for example by putting a dymotape sticker over the GVW figure on the trailer plate, with the reduced maximum capacity (i.e. a revised GVW) at which you will be operating it in order to stay within the towing vehicle's limit.  No need for a fancy replacement plate apparently, just superimpose the new figure on the old.  It's the GVW on the trailer plate (or its substitute figure) on which the police will rely, rather than the state of load of the trailer.  Not sure what they would do if two labels were both in view simultaneously.

 

By analogy, a new Hymer sticker over or replacing the old on the MH will do nicely.  So would any alternative label as long as it showed the requisite figures and there is evidence available to prove that any increase in gross weight (above the manufacturer's figure) has been properly engineered.  You do however have to ensure that the new marking is visible and durable - and I found that ordinary dymotape labels don't last at all well.

 

My dymotape label fell off years ago and I'm afraid I have never replaced it - but then the chances of a traffic policeman stopping you and knowing what to check and how seem very small these days.

 

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2016-08-03 8:02 AM............................I tow trailers which have a higher weight capacity than my towing vehicle is rated for by the manufacturer, so I asked the trailer supplier what I needed to do.  In order to satisfy the police if you get stopped you need to have marked the trailer, for example by putting a dymotape sticker over the GVW figure on the trailer plate, with the reduced maximum capacity (i.e. a revised GVW) at which you will be operating it in order to stay within the towing vehicle's limit.  No need for a fancy replacement plate apparently, just superimpose the new figure on the old.  It's the GVW on the trailer plate (or its substitute figure) on which the police will rely, rather than the state of load of the trailer.  Not sure what they would do if two labels were both in view simultaneously. By analogy, a new Hymer sticker over or replacing the old on the MH will do nicely.  So would any alternative label as long as it showed the requisite figures and there is evidence available to prove that any increase in gross weight (above the manufacturer's figure) has been properly engineered.  You do however have to ensure that the new marking is visible and durable - and I found that ordinary dymotape labels don't last at all well. My dymotape label fell off years ago and I'm afraid I have never replaced it - but then the chances of a traffic policeman stopping you and knowing what to check and how seem very small these days.

I think trailers are treated somewhat differently because they aren't registered in their own right (i.e. no V5C). The GVW of the trailer is not really your problem, it is the Gross Train Weight (GTW) of your van that is the governing factor. My understanding of how that works in the UK is that GTW is treated as an actual weight, although I also understand that it is not in (broadly) the rest of Europe where they take the GVW of both tow vehicle and trailer, add them together, and the total must not exceed GTW. So, as long as neither the trailer, nor the van (nor its rear axle load) exceeds their respective plated limits, you are legally in the clear even if plated GVW van + plated GVW trailer exceeds GTW van. If you check this and I'm wrong, I'd be interested to know, but the info came originally from the Caravan Club, albeit several years back.