Violet1956 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Gwendolyn - 2016-09-24 6:28 PM It is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing. Did I say I voted for Corbyn? And why does a vote for him have to be termed "cloud cuckoo land"? It belongs to the same kind of vocabulary as loony left, tree hugger and wet hanky. Why do such terms have to be used? You call into question my integrity, and sincerity, when all I was doing was adding some of my thoughts. I did not claim to be insightful but I am open minded - you think not, so I see little point in further trying to "chat" on these matters. I find personal attacks very upsetting indeed. It can be hurtful. Why cannot chats be more objective? Don't give up Gwendolyn it's good to have people like you saying their piece without constantly applying trite tabloid labels to people just because they disagree with their views. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Gwendolyn - 2016-09-24 6:28 PMIt is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing. Did I say I voted for Corbyn? And why does a vote for him have to be termed "cloud cuckoo land"? It belongs to the same kind of vocabulary as loony left, tree hugger and wet hanky. Why do such terms have to be used? You call into question my integrity, and sincerity, when all I was doing was adding some of my thoughts. I did not claim to be insightful but I am open minded - you think not, so I see little point in further trying to "chat" on these matters. I find personal attacks very upsetting indeed. It can be hurtful. Why cannot chats be more objective? This is an adult discussion, so a thin skin doesn't work well. I am criticising your ideas not your person, open-mindedness comes in degrees and I was merely suggesting that you are not as open minded as you might think you are. I certainly didn't call into question your integrity. Open your mind and toughen up! And if you want discussions to be objective, don't say things like "It is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing" without supporting argument because that is merely someone's subjective opinion, even if you did read it in a history book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 StuartO - 2016-09-25 8:36 AM "It is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing" without supporting argument because that is merely someone's subjective opinion, even if you did read it in a history book! I'd of thought the press in general reflects the view of its readership......ergo the rest of the population.......which probably explains why the DM (1,657,867) out sells the Guardian ( 178,758 ) :D ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-25 9:20 AM StuartO - 2016-09-25 8:36 AM "It is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing" without supporting argument because that is merely someone's subjective opinion, even if you did read it in a history book! I'd of thought the press in general reflects the view of its readership......ergo the rest of the population.......which probably explains why the DM (1,657,867) out sells the Guardian ( 178,758 ) :D ..... I think its popularity is a good topic for discussion Dave thanks for that. There are probably many factors including something to do with the fog index -"the frequency with which words are in normal use affects the readability of text" and the fact we have an ageing population who grow ever more conservative and grumpy about anything and everything and love venting their spleen with their morning cuppa. The Guardian is a bit boring and can be quite a dense read. I never buy it because I hate the layout and I quite understand that the fact that there way too few pictures and too much text puts alot of people off. If it was a toss up between The Beano and The DM however I'd buy the former. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 I seem to have been credited with something which Gwendolyn actually said, to which I was objecting, but as it happens I do think some of the press is right wing, and of course some supports the left and probably none of them think they are biased at all! I'm a bit worried that I'm getting too old and grumpy because it has seemed to me in recent times that Sky News is a bit too left inclined (in its efforts to be populist) as well! Back to the topic and the next couple of days at the Labour Conference look like being fairly interesting, as those Labour MPs who really can't stand Corbyn as Leader (or more likely those who feel insecure in their seats with his supporters likely to deselect them) weighing up whether a breakaway party will actually work or not. Absolute loyalty to Labour, as expected of all Labour MPs, is of course something of an obstacle so they will be hesitant, even if they are sure they will be deselected for 2020, so they either continue until 2020 doing their own thing and pretend to be Labour Under Corbyn, or risk public excommunication (and being called a scab or worse) for daring to go independent. I can't see many of them being that brave, so Labour Under Corbyn it will have to be. I can't see Teresa May calling an early election either, so I interpret Corbyn's call to election arms as being made for internal Labour Party rallying purposes. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-09-25 9:59 AM pelmetman - 2016-09-25 9:20 AM StuartO - 2016-09-25 8:36 AM "It is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing" without supporting argument because that is merely someone's subjective opinion, even if you did read it in a history book! I'd of thought the press in general reflects the view of its readership......ergo the rest of the population.......which probably explains why the DM (1,657,867) out sells the Guardian ( 178,758 ) :D ..... I think its popularity is a good topic for discussion Dave thanks for that. There are probably many factors including something to do with the fog index -"the frequency with which words are in normal use affects the readability of text" and the fact we have an ageing population who grow ever more conservative and grumpy about anything and everything and love venting their spleen with their morning cuppa. The Guardian is a bit boring and can be quite a dense read. I never buy it because I hate the layout and I quite understand that the fact that there way too few pictures and too much text puts alot of people off. If it was a toss up between The Beano and The DM however I'd buy the former. ;-) Nice to see newspaper snobism is alive and well ;-) ........ Fortunately I don't buy any, no need to when I can read it for free :D....... Although seeing as what Gwendolyn calls the right wing press appears to share my values.......it would also appear that I'm more in tune with the majority of the UK population than some on here.......who'd of thought it eh? 8-) .......... So am I following the herd....or are they following me? :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-25 10:27 AM ......Although seeing as what Gwendolyn calls the right wing press appears to share my values.......it would also appear that I'm more in tune with the majority of the UK population than some on here.......who'd of thought it eh? 8-) ..........So am I following the herd....or are they following me? :D ....... I think you have real potential to become a charismatic political leader, if only because they would follow you out of curiosity. But then you'd have to roll your sleeves up and deliver, and that might impact on your lifestyle far too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 StuartO - 2016-09-25 10:26 AMI seem to have been credited with something which Gwendolyn actually said, to which I was objecting, but as it happens I do think some of the press is right wing, and of course some supports the left and probably none of them think they are biased at all! I'm a bit worried that I'm getting too old and grumpy because it has seemed to me in recent times that Sky News is a bit too left inclined (in its efforts to be populist) as well! Back to the topic and the next couple of days at the Labour Conference look like being fairly interesting, as those Labour MPs who really can't stand Corbyn as Leader (or more likely those who feel insecure in their seats with his supporters likely to deselect them) weighing up whether a breakaway party will actually work or not. Absolute loyalty to Labour, as expected of all Labour MPs, is of course something of an obstacle so they will be hesitant, even if they are sure they will be deselected for 2020, so they either continue until 2020 doing their own thing and pretend to be Labour Under Corbyn, or risk public excommunication (and being called a scab or worse) for daring to go independent. I can't see many of them being that brave, so Labour Under Corbyn it will have to be. I can't see Teresa May calling an early election either, so I interpret Corbyn's call to election arms as being made for internal Labour Party rallying purposes. We'll see.If there's a split the breakout group will need a more charismatic and pragmatic leader than Mr Corbyn if it is to win the support of the electorate. I'm not that aware of any of the current labour politicians that might fit that description that could credibly lead such a revolt within the party. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 StuartO - 2016-09-25 10:38 AMpelmetman - 2016-09-25 10:27 AM ......Although seeing as what Gwendolyn calls the right wing press appears to share my values.......it would also appear that I'm more in tune with the majority of the UK population than some on here.......who'd of thought it eh? 8-) ..........So am I following the herd....or are they following me? :D .......I think you have real potential to become a charismatic political leader, if only because they would follow you out of curiosity. But then you'd have to roll your sleeves up and deliver, and that might impact on your lifestyle far too much!You know me to well Stuart ;-) ...........Armchair Anarchy is more my style :D ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Perhaps the working-class-grammar school-Oxbridge boy could do it. Criticised for being a bit wooden though. https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/apr/09/labours-keir-starmer-if-we-dont-capture-the-ambitions-of-a-generation-it-doesnt-matter-who-is-leading-the-party Sorry Dave P it's from the Groniad again! Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-25 10:27 AM Violet1956 - 2016-09-25 9:59 AM pelmetman - 2016-09-25 9:20 AM StuartO - 2016-09-25 8:36 AM "It is a matter of historical tradition that the political stance of most of the UK national press is right wing" without supporting argument because that is merely someone's subjective opinion, even if you did read it in a history book! I'd of thought the press in general reflects the view of its readership......ergo the rest of the population.......which probably explains why the DM (1,657,867) out sells the Guardian ( 178,758 ) :D ..... I think its popularity is a good topic for discussion Dave thanks for that. There are probably many factors including something to do with the fog index -"the frequency with which words are in normal use affects the readability of text" and the fact we have an ageing population who grow ever more conservative and grumpy about anything and everything and love venting their spleen with their morning cuppa. The Guardian is a bit boring and can be quite a dense read. I never buy it because I hate the layout and I quite understand that the fact that there way too few pictures and too much text puts alot of people off. If it was a toss up between The Beano and The DM however I'd buy the former. ;-) Nice to see newspaper snobism is alive and well ;-) ........ Fortunately I don't buy any, no need to when I can read it for free :D....... Although seeing as what Gwendolyn calls the right wing press appears to share my values.......it would also appear that I'm more in tune with the majority of the UK population than some on here.......who'd of thought it eh? 8-) .......... So am I following the herd....or are they following me? :D ....... A personal plea, stop amusing me Dave I'm supposed to be working and as ever my inbox keeps coming up with your posts. You are however on my fantasy dinner guest list as there is never a dull moment with you around. Or is that too snobby for you as well? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-09-25 11:26 AM Perhaps the working-class-grammar school-Oxbridge boy could do it. Criticised for being a bit wooden though. https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/apr/09/labours-keir-starmer-if-we-dont-capture-the-ambitions-of-a-generation-it-doesnt-matter-who-is-leading-the-party Sorry Dave P it's from the Groniad again! Veronica Probably explains why our judicial system is in the state it is though :-| ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-25 11:54 AM Violet1956 - 2016-09-25 11:26 AM Perhaps the working-class-grammar school-Oxbridge boy could do it. Criticised for being a bit wooden though. https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/apr/09/labours-keir-starmer-if-we-dont-capture-the-ambitions-of-a-generation-it-doesnt-matter-who-is-leading-the-party Sorry Dave P it's from the Groniad again! Veronica Probably explains why our judicial system is in the state it is though :-| ........... He ran the CPS Dave, nothing to do with the judiciary. Beware the people who would have you believe that the judiciary are disfunctional. It is usually because they would come up wanting if put under judicial scrutiny. These people don't like their excesses or failures to be revealed. They exploit the tradition that Judges do not speak publicly in defence of their decisions. It's a rather cheap trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Second attempt at uploading this rant from Jonathan Pie. Warning contains very bad language. https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/998979936891566/ Guess that puts me back in my box :$ Just an alternative view not likely to be expressed on here obviously and not saying I agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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