Fiat Ducato cab draught - 2015 Chausson 718

[Budgie823]

With regard to the number of vents under the cab, I have just crawled under my 2015 Autotrail and can confirm that there are a total of 4 with 2 under each side of the cab. Interestingly enough the 2 on the driver's side already have the blanks fitted whereas the passenger side doesn't. The vehicle was bought from new so they were obviously fitted during manufacture. Is there any reason why this should be the case?

[Rayjsj]

BnJ - 2016-10-25 9:46 AM

 

Until recently we had a 2012 fiat based coachbuilt and sure enough there were the 4 inch rectangular rubber ventilation “flaps” as previously described, which I duly replaced with “closed” ones from fiat.

 

We now have a fiat based 2016 van conversion and it was my intention to do exactly the same as before, however after crawling under the van .... no rectangular 4 inch ventilation “flaps” or even “closed” ones at all like the previous coachbulit. Needless to say I spent some considerable time looking, not just in the same place as before (in line with the fuel filler point behind passenger door), but all under the cab area and half way back into the van area. The only things I could find that were anywhere near similar, were a small “2 inch” circular hole with a rubber bung in each, on either side of the van in a chassis member close to the area where the previous coachbuilt had the 4 inch rectangular ventilation “flaps”.

 

So I’m wondering, have Fiat dispensed with them on the vans used for conversion, or have they moved them, because I spent some time yesterday crawling around looking for them.

 

Anyone else have the 4 inch rectangular “ventilation flaps” closed off or not, on a 2016 Fiat van conversion?

I too downsized to a PVC, No, the vans dont have the flaps(at the front where it counts anyway), anyone want to buy a pair of blanks ?

[AlanS]

Thanks for that information - it confirms what the parts manager told me. When it is dry I am going to get to have another look under mine - according to the Fiat paperwork ours was built in March 2015 so should be similar to yours.

Alan

 

Budgie823 - 2016-11-20 10:01 AM

 

With regard to the number of vents under the cab, I have just crawled under my 2015 Autotrail and can confirm that there are a total of 4 with 2 under each side of the cab. Interestingly enough the 2 on the driver's side already have the blanks fitted whereas the passenger side doesn't. The vehicle was bought from new so they were obviously fitted during manufacture. Is there any reason why this should be the case?

[Derek Uzzell]

Rayjsj - 2016-11-20 10:37 AM

 

I too downsized to a PVC, No, the vans dont have the flaps(at the front where it counts anyway), anyone want to buy a pair of blanks ?

 

But does your motorhome have these mysterious flappy-things right at the rear? (See my posting above of 18 November 2016 6:31 PM)

 

It seems very odd to me that - if the purpose of the grille-with-flaps is to aid ventilation of a ‘closed’ cab fitted to panel-vans with a bulkhead between the cab and load area - that neither a 2014 nor a 2016 panel-van-based motorhome have the grille+flaps nor even the blanking-plates, whereas similar age coachbuilt motorhomes have one or two of each.

 

It’s most unlikely that motorhome manufacturers concern themselves with airflow over and under their products, but a coachbuilt motorhome will have at least one roof-window and this will have a ‘permanent’ ventilation capabilty.

 

Now, when this motorhome is barrelling along at 50mph, with air whooshing easily across its roof and air doing who knows what as it tries to pass under the vehicle, logic should dictate that air entering the cab is much more likely to exit through the roof-light(s) than through the small grille+flaps under the floor. In fact, there’s every chance that the flaps on the grille will stay closed rather than open when the motorhome is moving.

 

Although it’s been claimed that using a blanking-plate to close off the grille will significantly reduce in-cab draughts, I just don’t believe it.

[david lloyd]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-21 9:26 AM

 

Rayjsj - 2016-11-20 10:37 AM

 

I too downsized to a PVC, No, the vans dont have the flaps(at the front where it counts anyway), anyone want to buy a pair of blanks ?

 

Now, when this motorhome is barrelling along at 50mph, with air whooshing easily across its roof and air doing who knows what as it tries to pass under the vehicle, logic should dictate that air entering the cab is much more likely to exit through the roof-light(s) than through the small grille+flaps under the floor. In fact, there’s every chance that the flaps on the grille will stay closed rather than open when the motorhome is moving.

 

Although it’s been claimed that using a blanking-plate to close off the grille will significantly reduce in-cab draughts, I just don’t believe it.

 

I think davidmiller66's original post was regarding cold droughts when parked and camping rather than when driving (at one point he tried insulated screens and it would be really difficult to barrel along at any speed with those on!) and that is also the problem I wanted to overcome. In this case, any opening from the outside leading to the interior is likely to cause a draught or cold spots - witness the common problem of fridges not sealed from the habitation area - so I am hoping we will feel a difference when we try the van out this weekend. We feel the problem particularly in the cab as it is a front lounge motorhome.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

It’s undoubtedly the case that, if there’s the opportunity for cold air to enter a motorhome’s cab, the cab area will become cold. David Miller’s problem seems to be extreme though, and it seems most unlikely that the small grille below the cab floor is the cause. It also seems most unlikely that blanking off the grille would cure David’s problem.

 

Besides which, if the flaps on the grille are intended to open when the vehicle is moving, the reverse should be true when the vehicle is stopped. So, when the vehicle is stopped and the flaps are (presumably) closed, if serious cold draughts are being felt in the cab, the grille+flaps should not be the cause.

 

In cold weather, when my Rapido is on 230V hook-up, I will run a 1kW fan-heater all night. I fit interior insulated screens to the cab windows that also have Remis concertina blinds. Additionally there are insulated curtains that can be drawn around the front of the cab seats to separate the front and sides of the cab area from the main habitation-space. Come morning, despite the curtains and blinds having been drawn the previous evening, it’s bleeding cold behind the curtains and there’s considerable condensation on the inside of the cab windows. (I know exterior screens would stop that, but I’ve fought shy of going down that road so far.)

 

I don’t seem to have the extreme draught problem David describes, but that’s possibly because I’ll pull the curtains across if it’s cold. Besides which, from November through March my motorhome hibernates. It may be that all X250/X290-based coachbuilt motorhomes have potentially draughty cabs and it’s only people who use the vehicles in very cold weather, or believe the draughts in their vehicle are unusual, mention the draughts.

 

Dunno - the proof of the pudding will be that, if you blank off the grille+flaps on your motorhome and there’s a a magical improvement in comfort, you’ll be able to say that doing so was worthwhile. And if there’s no noticeable improvement you’ll know that it was not.

[david lloyd]

Yes, I have to say, we have also faught shy of using insulated screens either inside or out and just have the Remis blinds. For the most part the cab is comfortably warm although in colder weather we do see an increase in the condensation. As we use the van all year round (albeit in southern Spain or Portugal for about 3 months) it does get aired well so it is mainly a question of being prepared to clear the windscreen of a morning.

 

The main problem we have is that the (diesel/electric) Truma heater in our Chausson warms up the main saloon a treat but by the time it is reaching the last outlet beneath the dining table it is not that hot so the cab takes quite a bit if heating up and the cold air around your feet may easily be worsened by any other cold air comin in through any source. I tend to close down those around the rear beds as that area is always warmer and this does improve the heat flow at the front end. Perhaps a small electric/oil radiator would help things along a bit when on hookup.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

I’m tentatively planning to get an exterior insulated cover next year. My two previous motorhomes did not have externally-accessible storage convenient enough to a take a bulky wet cover, but the Rapido has.

 

I’m fed up with clearing the condensation off the cab glass, but the primary incentive is that I have £150 of RoadPro vouchers and I can’t think of anything else they sell that would be more useful to me than a screen-cover.

[BnJ]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-21 1:13 PM

 

I’m tentatively planning to get an exterior insulated cover next year. My two previous motorhomes did not have externally-accessible storage convenient enough to a take a bulky wet cover, but the Rapido has.

 

I’m fed up with clearing the condensation off the cab glass, but the primary incentive is that I have £150 of RoadPro vouchers and I can’t think of anything else they sell that would be more useful to me than a screen-cover.

 

We can highly recommend external screens.

 

For years we used the internal insulated screens and for us (2 people and a dog) they reduced condensation on the cab windows but didn’t eliminate it. We liked being able to put the internal screens up and remove them from the inside of the vehicle from a security point of view when wild camping; they stayed dry of course and generally take up less storage then external ones.

 

Three years ago we bought some external ones as a 2nd option. To us their advantage was they totally stopped condensation on the cab windows in even the coldest conditions and were warmer in general. The downside is they are bulkier and if it rains they have to be put away wet.

 

It seems to us that neither the internal or external ones do everything, but if you are looking to stop condensation then we think the external ones are the best.

 

[davidmiller66]

UPDATE:

 

After a summer and this cold winter, I thought I’d give you an update seeing as you all were so kind as to give me your opinions and advice.

 

Firstly, the draught still exists. It’s not really the actual draught that bothers me as we can hide ourselves away in the bedroom and all is cosy. But rather the fact the heating system cannot get the van internal temp above 17 or 18 degs (when the outside temp is 0 degs).

 

The heating is set to 25 degs and its blowing like crazy all night trying to keep up. It never gets there.

 

Yes, if we put on a 1kw blower heater and point that at the cab area, its great and we don’t have any problem at all. But I won’t use that at night. Just nervous of those things you know? Also it’s burning battery power as we try to be off grid.

 

Also, as previous posts, if I use the ‘draped quilt over the seats’ solution, all is well.

 

Other things I tried:

 

1. Blanking plates - My van had one ‘grill’ blanking plate under the nearside passenger seat and the off side (driver side) was already blanked off. Using Gorilla tape, covering the nearside one over, has had no real noticeable effect.

2. Closing vents and switching to recirculate - no difference. The draught can still be felt coming from under the dash (footwells and centre console).

3. Screens - I use both internal and external screens. They even cover the external vents. Makes no difference to the draught. Yes, it's warmer but the draught is still there.

 

Further investigation:

 

I went to my dealer (Highbridge). They were excellent and basically set up a brand new Chausson Ducato van 2018 model with the same heating system for me to see how that coped.

 

So, on a cold day, heating on full blast and the exact same problem existed in that new van. Temp not reaching the desired value and a very noticeable draught from under the dash. So I was very appreciative of their open help making it clear I’m not dealing with a specific fault - rather a general problem.

 

Solution:

 

As previous posts, using the ‘tucked in duvet draped over the seats’ method I know I can stop the problem. At least until the air pocket on the dash side fills up with cold air and it start to spill over into the habitation area.

 

I also know, these motorhomes are just vans so I don’t expect miracles. I expect there to be an issue with cold coming from the cab. We happen to use it during cold weather and so notice it more than most.

 

This is what I’m going to do. Create a ‘thermal cab curtain barrier’. Basically enhancing the ‘duvet drape. solution. But keeping the full use of the motorhome and how it was designed to be utilised.

 

I’ve looked online as I did find some German website that sold them but they didn’t look like they would work as I want.

 

Being a Midlander, where fabric solutions are prominent, I feel I can design and create such a solution.

 

Further updates to follow :)

[Derek Uzzell]

A lot of motorhomes have a ‘cab curtain barrier’ and at least some of these will have a reasonable insulating capability The attached photo shows a Rapido example and, although it doesn’t stop condensation forming, it should combat draughts fairly effectively.