joe66 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 My wife got gassed one night, but that was after I had beans on toast :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Mag&Hal - 2016-10-26 9:45 AM 6 adults sleeping in a confined area with poor ventilation would make anybody feel ill just from the C02 build up. Any alcohol wouldn't improve matters. I wonder if the manufacturers of 6 berth vans are aware that they're potentially building death traps? :D ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakofox Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I read a reply from a consultant anesthetist that the amount of gas needed to fill a Motorhome and incapacitate the occupants would be more than a standard 5' tall oxygen cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-10-29 9:38 PM Mag&Hal - 2016-10-26 9:45 AM 6 adults sleeping in a confined area with poor ventilation would make anybody feel ill just from the C02 build up. Any alcohol wouldn't improve matters. I wonder if the manufacturers of 6 berth vans are aware that they're potentially building death traps? :D ..... Wise words mate, that would be difficult to calculate how many beans would have to be consumed, the cubic capacity of said vehicle and what would happen if "old Monyzoomers" kick in....would there be a rush to the Thetford and would anyone find it wearing a gas mask. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 sakofox - 2016-10-30 8:06 AM I read a reply from a consultant anesthetist that the amount of gas needed to fill a Motorhome and incapacitate the occupants would be more than a standard 5' tall oxygen cylinder. Of course his reply would only be relevant if anaesthetic gas was used ;-) ....... I'm am unaware if they have done any experimentation into how a anaesthetic gas would mix with the air in the camper?........Plus there is also the other point that the purpose of any gas would be to stop folk from waking up.....not put them to sleep........ so I would assume the level of gas to air wouldn't need to be so high :-| ....... As I discovered on Thursday no amount of gas was going to make me relax 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-10-30 8:32 AMsakofox - 2016-10-30 8:06 AMI read a reply from a consultant anesthetist that the amount of gas needed to fill a Motorhome and incapacitate the occupants would be more than a standard 5' tall oxygen cylinder.Of course his reply would only be relevant if anaesthetic gas was used ;-) .......I'm am unaware if they have done any experimentation into how a anaesthetic gas would mix with the air in the camper?........Plus there is also the other point that the purpose of any gas would be to stop folk from waking up.....not put them to sleep........ so I would assume the level of gas to air wouldn't need to be so high :-| .......As I discovered on Thursday no amount of gas was going to make me relax 8-) ......... It is said to be impossible to prove a negative, so presumably it will always be possible for you to argue that gas attacks on motorhomers do or might take place. You kit you MH out with whatever you like in the way of detectors and ventilation systems to prevent a successful gas attack if you wish; I think you are kidding yourself and wasting your time and money but please yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Maybe not gas at all, read article below http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/scopolamine-mind-control-drug-most-dangerous-world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-10-29 6:58 PM Will.........i know even if "a living person on this forum" experienced such, you are such a cynical sceptic you'd still doubt!!! Is Jensen Buttons spokeman a liar? .[/i] 1. Yes of course 2. Yes until proved otherwise. Who is this Button? Who is this 'spokesman'? 3. I haven't reached this number of years by believing all I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 my motorhome is standard, and has lots of air vents supposedly to stop the build up of gas! so that's a problem for a would be thief. secondly, assuming he could pour in enough gas to knock you out, which would take a while to fill a van and knock out those asleep in it (whilst its leaking out of the many vents), then, wouldn't he have to wait a while for it to clear, to ensure he didn't fall asleep too, and for it to clear so he could search (and would the sleepers be liable to wake)? that's a lot of hanging around on a service station without looking suspicious? doesnt sound like a good hourly rate to me. id rather burgle a shop. NO, I don't!!!!! :-D (lol) I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and I'm not saying it gives chancers to make a dodgy insurance claim, but you can see which side of the fence I sit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Good afternoon people, It looks like Shaggy ? has found the answer to all this doubt with scopolamine, especially as The Guardian has made investigations also. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 StuartO - 2016-10-30 9:12 AMpelmetman - 2016-10-30 8:32 AMsakofox - 2016-10-30 8:06 AMI read a reply from a consultant anesthetist that the amount of gas needed to fill a Motorhome and incapacitate the occupants would be more than a standard 5' tall oxygen cylinder.Of course his reply would only be relevant if anaesthetic gas was used ;-) .......I'm am unaware if they have done any experimentation into how a anaesthetic gas would mix with the air in the camper?........Plus there is also the other point that the purpose of any gas would be to stop folk from waking up.....not put them to sleep........ so I would assume the level of gas to air wouldn't need to be so high :-| .......As I discovered on Thursday no amount of gas was going to make me relax 8-) ......... It is said to be impossible to prove a negative, so presumably it will always be possible for you to argue that gas attacks on motorhomers do or might take place. You kit you MH out with whatever you like in the way of detectors and ventilation systems to prevent a successful gas attack if you wish; I think you are kidding yourself and wasting your time and money but please yourself. No extra expense necessary ;-) ........we have a smoke alarm and a carbon monoxide alarm......both sensible additions as we have gas powered cooking and heating apparatus.........but I'm also aware that carbon monoxide can cause the symptoms, that many of the victims later complain about :-| ......I also know that its possible to set off a carbon monoxide alarm in our camper whilst merely being in a garage with another vehicles engine running........now assuming said alarm would only go off when dangerous levels of carbon monoxide had been reached?.......Its seems obvious to me it wouldn't take long to intentionally pump a camper with enough CO to keep any occupants from waking *-) .......Don't forget we all have excellent carbon monoxide generators under our bonnets, they're called engines.......so no tankers needed >:-).......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I don't wish to be pedantic (alright, I do) but I've always understood that diesel engines emit only negligible levels of carbon monoxide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-10-30 2:52 PM..I also know that its possible to set off a carbon monoxide alarm in our camper whilst merely being in a garage with another vehicles engine running........now assuming said alarm would only go off when dangerous levels of carbon monoxide had been reached?.......Its seems obvious to me it wouldn't take long to intentionally pump a camper with enough CO to keep any occupants from waking *-) .......Don't forget we all have excellent carbon monoxide generators under our bonnets, they're called engines.......so no tankers needed >:-).......... Pumping CO into a MH would require a hole as big as an exhaust pipe which would presumably quite noisey to create. Achieving a narcotic (and therefore also lethal) concentration of CO might take a minute or two an exhaust pipe would probaly pump fast enough to beat the MH's ventilation opennings. The thief would need to wear a respirator or take the time to ventilate before entry. Incidentally to commit suicide you don't really need to feed exhaust into an enclosed vehicle; four breaths at the exhaust pipe is said to be enough! This is because CO binds with haemoglobin and renders it relatively incapable of transporting oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 aandy - 2016-10-30 7:39 PM I don't wish to be pedantic (alright, I do) but I've always understood that diesel engines emit only negligible levels of carbon monoxide. Quite possibly.......I didn't ask my mechanic what type of engine was running, that kept setting off my carbon monoxide alarm enough for him to remove the batteries ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 StuartO - 2016-10-30 8:06 PMpelmetman - 2016-10-30 2:52 PM..I also know that its possible to set off a carbon monoxide alarm in our camper whilst merely being in a garage with another vehicles engine running........now assuming said alarm would only go off when dangerous levels of carbon monoxide had been reached?.......Its seems obvious to me it wouldn't take long to intentionally pump a camper with enough CO to keep any occupants from waking *-) .......Don't forget we all have excellent carbon monoxide generators under our bonnets, they're called engines.......so no tankers needed >:-).......... Pumping CO into a MH would require a hole as big as an exhaust pipe which would presumably quite noisey to create. Achieving a narcotic (and therefore also lethal) concentration of CO might take a minute or two an exhaust pipe would probaly pump fast enough to beat the MH's ventilation opennings. The thief would need to wear a respirator or take the time to ventilate before entry. Incidentally to commit suicide you don't really need to feed exhaust into an enclosed vehicle; four breaths at the exhaust pipe is said to be enough! This is because CO binds with haemoglobin and renders it relatively incapable of transporting oxygen.Given that almost all of the reported incidents happen on motorway services, then the sound of an engine running nearby is not unusual, as for pumping enough CO to reach lethal proportions.....why would they bother?.....all they want to do is stop folk from waking up........and not all CO exposure is lethal, as I understand mild CO poisoning is quite a common complaint in winter at doctors surgeries :-| ..............and obviously once entry is gained then the CO level will immediately drop due to the open door ;-) .....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2719857/British-family-robbed-thieves-pumped-camper-van-fumes-car-exhaust-knock-travelled-France.htmlFrom the article for those who have a DM aversion :D ........"We all woke up at around about the same time, at 6am, with terrible headaches and really sore throats. We were all in shock. It was so awful."From NHS website......"A tension-type headache is the most common symptom of mild carbon monoxide poisoning." ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Will86 - 2016-10-30 12:58 PM Bulletguy - 2016-10-29 6:58 PM Will.........i know even if "a living person on this forum" experienced such, you are such a cynical sceptic you'd still doubt!!! Is Jensen Buttons spokeman a liar? .[/i] 1. Yes of course 2. Yes until proved otherwise. Who is this Button? Who is this 'spokesman'? 3. I haven't reached this number of years by believing all I read. F1 driver with McLaren. The spokesman was possibly from McLaren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-10-30 8:10 PM aandy - 2016-10-30 7:39 PM I don't wish to be pedantic (alright, I do) but I've always understood that diesel engines emit only negligible levels of carbon monoxide. Quite possibly.......I didn't ask my mechanic what type of engine was running, that kept setting off my carbon monoxide alarm enough for him to remove the batteries ;-) ......... My comment was not directed at that part of your post, but at your assertion that we all have excellent carbon monoxide generators under our bonnets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 aandy - 2016-10-31 8:57 AM pelmetman - 2016-10-30 8:10 PM aandy - 2016-10-30 7:39 PM I don't wish to be pedantic (alright, I do) but I've always understood that diesel engines emit only negligible levels of carbon monoxide. Quite possibly.......I didn't ask my mechanic what type of engine was running, that kept setting off my carbon monoxide alarm enough for him to remove the batteries ;-) ......... My comment was not directed at that part of your post, but at your assertion that we all have excellent carbon monoxide generators under our bonnets. Are they not?........I wonder why my alarm kept going off then? ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Even if you do believe the nonsense about being gassed as said its nearly always motorway service stations where robberies take place. There are thousands of motorhome Aires, sostas, stellplatz etc all over mainland Europe so no need to stay on a motorway really. So then look at your average Aire de camping car. Probably 10, 20 or more vans all parked in close proximity. Middle of the night you can usually hear a pin drop. Do you honestly think a van or truck loaded with gas bottles is going to trundle along and somehow empty all this gas into a motorhome, break in, take all the valuables, pack everything up and drive away unnoticed? Think about it. Its preposterous. Ah but if you wild camping up an Alp all alone (like we do) it might happen. True but are there really armies of crooks loaded with twenty gas cylinders roaming the remote parts of the Alps looking for hapless motorhomers? If it really goes on, why is it always mainland Europe where these folks get robbed and not the UK? Crime of all descriptions is much higher here in the UK than say France but you never hear about it happening in the UK. Why is that I wonder? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Bulletguy - F1 driver with McLaren. The spokesman was possibly from McLaren. Well, there you go, I learn something every day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Gang arrested in Paris for using scopolamine in robberies , I think you are all barking up the wrong tree with gas attacks. Originally scopolamine was only found in south America but it seems it has found its way into the hands of gangs in europe who are using it to steal from people. If you believe in these reports of motorhome robberies then this is the most logical answer. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11836976/Three-arrested-in-Paris-over-devils-breath-drug-that-turns-victims-into-willing-zombies.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-10-31 9:00 AM aandy - 2016-10-31 8:57 AM pelmetman - 2016-10-30 8:10 PM aandy - 2016-10-30 7:39 PM I don't wish to be pedantic (alright, I do) but I've always understood that diesel engines emit only negligible levels of carbon monoxide. Quite possibly.......I didn't ask my mechanic what type of engine was running, that kept setting off my carbon monoxide alarm enough for him to remove the batteries ;-) ......... My comment was not directed at that part of your post, but at your assertion that we all have excellent carbon monoxide generators under our bonnets. Are they not?........I wonder why my alarm kept going off then? ;-) .......... As far as I am aware, no. I've always understood that petrol engines generate a significant amount of CO while diesels do not. My knowledge of engines is very much rooted in the past, but a quick internet search suggests that is still the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The Question is not whether you believe what you read, or hear say, or what Jenson Bottom (retired) thinks happen to him, or '0l bert said what happened to his great uncle Bulgaria twice removed. The question is Has any forum member been gassed in their 'van, and not consumed to much alcohol or coke, or has anybody done it to anybody else on this forum. (I know one or two would like too) :D PS a modern petrol engine does about 19.5 pounds of CO2 to the gallon. This is without adding ethonol which will reduce the output still further, Where as a Diesel does about 22.4 pounds to the gallon, on top of that you have particulates to consider with burning diesel, which is not so good within cities and towns but not such a problem on the open road, motorways etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spireite Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Be afraid, be very afraid - it's Halloween and tonight the Trick and Treaters may knock on your front door. Or they may try to Gas you by devious means as you hide in the Motorhome to avoid giving a 'treat'. Perhaps they've read James Thurber's 'The Night the Bed Fell' (1933) – a short story of gassing and intend to catch you unaware by similar means in the wee small hours as he relates in the prose. Or they've read about the Mad Gasser of Mattoon in Virginia and Illinois before the Second World War who was never caught but could still be waiting to resume the attacks. Run, run to the hills and escape the gassing community as it moves from Motorhome to Motorhome in attack after attack on the owners as they innocently slumber within their vehicles. Or, as most sensible people do, ignore the piffle about gassing and get on with your lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 THE TREAT WAS A TRICK T'was gas, some said, that caused their loss, while sleeping off, their boozy dross. Yet proof, so far, is far from clear, in France or Spain, and even here? Like legends drawn, from centuries past, the excitement runs, sweet comments vast. Then a late night curry, at the ferry docks, gives the game away, they've forgotten the locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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