paulmold Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 In the latest MMM which popped through my letterbox yesterday, there is a letter from a Keith Nixon of Powys Council Parking and Markets Officer stating how Powys were encouraging motorhomers to stay overnight on any of the council car parks (maximum 1 night in 7 at each) for the sum of £6.30. We parked on a Powys car park about 5 years ago and were met by an enthusiastic car park attendant who wanted to tell us that they were encouraging motorhomers to stay for free overnight. Having read the letter in MMM and clicking on the link provided to their car park charges, it showed cars could stay for free but motorhomes along with HGV's had to pay the £6.30. So I emailed Keith Nixon to ask for clarification. He replied this morning that he had never written a letter or article to MMM. Very odd. He also enclosed a photo of tariff boards on their car parks which used symbols for the different categories of vehicles. This showed that a car or a van (which could easily have a mattress chucked in the back) were free but a minibus (the picture resembles a minibus but Keith said it was meant to be a motorhome) was classed the same as an HGV and cost £6.30. Why should a van and a motorhome be classed differently and why is he denying that he ever wrote the letter. I have sent him a scan of the letter showing his name and position at the end and pointed out the anomaly of van and motorhome charges considering they supply no toilet facilities or water or chemical disposal. Perhaps others would like to ask him to clarify the overnight cost - his email is keith.nixon@powys.gov.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 You should speak to Andy Strangeway - Scourge of Scarborough Council and My Hero (lol) https://andystrangeway.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/govt-anti-motorhome-policy-exposed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Sounds as if he has, indeed, clarified the overnight cost although I agree with your thrust. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Leaving aside any anomalies I think we should be pleased that Powys does specifically allow overnighting. Get Strangeways involved and they will probably ban it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Muswell - 2016-12-06 6:01 PM Leaving aside any anomalies I think we should be pleased that Powys does specifically allow overnighting. Get Strangeways involved and they will probably ban it. To be fair, Scarborough Council had already banned 'overnight sleeping' before Strangeway (not Strangeways - thats the prison) got involved. He just points out their bans are legally unenforceable (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 It used to be the case that motorhome overnighting used to be free of charge on most long-stay Powys car parks. This will be evident from this out-of-date document http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/powys.pdf However (although it may not be immediately obvious) the present position regarding Powys long-stay car parks is that the overnight-parking charge for any vehicle except a ‘motor car’ is £6.30 As Keith Nixon has said that he did not provide the piece printed in the “Letters” section of the January 2017 issue of MMM magazine (Page 14), it may be that a subordinate did it (with or without Keith’s blessing). It seems likely that the information was proactively provided to MMM from the Powys end, rather than as a response to an inquiry by MMM staff. Presumably whoever oversees what ends up in the MMM “Letters” section should be able to provide the background to the “We welcome motorhomers” piece. There’s more detailed information on this webpage http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/uk-stopovers/9-motorhome-stopover-listing The POWYS section is said to have been updated in December 2016, though I note that an overnight-parking charge of £6.50 is quoted, not £6.30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 I've been in contact with the editorial team at MMM and they have told me that before publishing Keith Nixon's letter, they contacted him and spoke to him. The letter published is his response verbatim, so I've no idea why he now denies it unless he has been reprimanded by his superiors for contacting MMM. I've had no further correspondence with Keith Nixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 paulmold - 2016-12-07 11:47 AM I've been in contact with the editorial team at MMM and they have told me that before publishing Keith Nixon's letter, they contacted him and spoke to him. The letter published is his response verbatim, so I've no idea why he now denies it unless he has been reprimanded by his superiors for contacting MMM. I've had no further correspondence with Keith Nixon. I can't be the only one who sees daylight between "I didn't write a letter or article" and "what we published was a verbatim account of a telephone conversation". If he denied talking to MMM on the phone I might understand concerns (and associated conspiracy theories 8-) ) but as presented it all seems remarkably normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agaric Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Phaeton - 2016-12-08 9:30 AM paulmold - 2016-12-07 11:47 AM I've been in contact with the editorial team at MMM and they have told me that before publishing Keith Nixon's letter, they contacted him and spoke to him. The letter published is his response verbatim, so I've no idea why he now denies it unless he has been reprimanded by his superiors for contacting MMM. I've had no further correspondence with Keith Nixon. I can't be the only one who sees daylight between "I didn't write a letter or article" and "what we published was a verbatim account of a telephone conversation". If he denied talking to MMM on the phone I might understand concerns (and associated conspiracy theories 8-) ) but as presented it all seems remarkably normal. I think you have the wrong end of the stick, it was a letter not a phone conversation that was verbatim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 You've missed the bit 'before publishing his letter'. MMM got a letter from him, so to verify details, MMM called him before publishing it. They have the letter and details of the phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 paulmold - 2016-12-08 10:48 AM You've missed the bit 'before publishing his letter'. MMM got a letter from him, so to verify details, MMM called him before publishing it. They have the letter and details of the phone call. Indeed I did; my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Personally I don't have any problem with not being able to park overnight and sleep in the van on a car park - what I do think councils need to recognise though is that motorhomers do like to visit their towns and cities, and should have somewhere to park through the day...even if its on a P&R site. I'm quite happy to drive back to a CL or other site for my overnighting. . Oddly Exeter Council seem to have the idea they don't any longer want motorhomes, as they did have about 7 spaces outside the P&R prior to the height barrier but still accessible for the buses, marked specifically for over-height vehicles, and these spaces were well used, often with several motorhomes there. They then decided to take all the overflow car park area to put a large bus garage on it, and restructured the entrance to the P&R removing any possibility of overheight vehicles being able to park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Keith T - 2016-12-09 4:02 PM Oddly Exeter Council seem to have the idea they don't any longer want motorhomes. Its not that odd. Local councils only represent those who live in their constituency. (Thats why nimbys have all the clout and we have a housing crisis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I expect this has been asked before and looking at the bigger picture, is it illegal to sleep in a vehicle? And if so it is surely on the statute book in black and sort of creamy white. And if it is legal to sleep in a vehicle can a town council overrule said law. On another point, is their a PCN ( penalty charge notice) for parking the wrong type of vehicle in a restricted area, as PCN number 91 and 23 don't appear to be the correct charge numbers for parking the wrong type of vehicle and I have searched the MOT and DVLA website and looked in the Highway Code and there is nothing *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Why bother researching that sort of thing yourself (or asking for credible opinion here) when Andy Strangeway can probably give you chapter and verse relating to every tiny nook and cranny of UK ‘parking’ regulations? https://andystrangeway.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/govt-anti-motorhome-policy-exposed/ (though possiibly not Welsh regulations ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-12-23 3:36 PM Why bother researching that sort of thing yourself (or asking for credible opinion here) when Andy Strangeway can probably give you chapter and verse relating to every tiny nook and cranny of UK ‘parking’ regulations? https://andystrangeway.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/govt-anti-motorhome-policy-exposed/ (though possiibly not Welsh regulations ;-) ) why bother replying to a post you seem to have little interest in and in that manner. You can be a very helpful chap on here Derek but you let yourself down on the odd occasion. PS don't bother replying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seannachie Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 keninpalamos - 2016-12-23 2:28 PM I expect this has been asked before and looking at the bigger picture, is it illegal to sleep in a vehicle? And if so it is surely on the statute book in black and sort of creamy white. And if it is legal to sleep in a vehicle can a town council overrule said law. On another point, is their a PCN ( penalty charge notice) for parking the wrong type of vehicle in a restricted area, as PCN number 91 and 23 don't appear to be the correct charge numbers for parking the wrong type of vehicle and I have searched the MOT and DVLA website and looked in the Highway Code and there is nothing *-) The most up to date and explanatory list of PCN ON-STREET Codes I know of is V6.7, and the best online source I have found is here: http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/Contravention_code_list_v6_7.pdf Codes 23 and 91 both DO refer to parking the wrong type of vehicle in a designated space, however there does not appear top be any Code prohibiting sleeping in a vehicle. There are other versions online, but neither so up to date or so explanatory, such as here, but the Codes agree with the British Parking Co list.: http://www.appealnow.com/parking-tickets/contravention-codes/ Obviously there is some official (legal) source of this information, but I haven't found it. Nevertheless, I'm prepared to accept that the BP Co list is accurate. HTH. EDIT: for typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-12-23 3:36 PM Why bother researching that sort of thing yourself..... keninpalamos - 2016-12-24 10:45 AM why bother replying to a post... Or better still........why 'bother' touring an area you aren't made welcome? Just take your money elsewhere which is what i do. I can't be ar$ed with NIMBY Councils and their silly signs. We're a country obsessed with ban this ban that and some folk are daft enough to buy into this weird self-flagellation. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Absolutely Paul. There's a whole continent over there where no-one wants to ban us unless we cause a nuisance. Including at least one country (usually the first one you reach) where councils aren't ALLOWED to discriminate against specific "types" of vehicle, or regulate what you do inside! Why stay and spend where we're not wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-24 3:37 PM I can't be ar$ed with NIMBY Councils and their silly signs. *-) It sounds like you can if you let yourself be bullied by their silly signs and go elsewhere when you've paid youir road tax and its your road as much as anyone else's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Tony Jones - 2016-12-24 7:21 PM Why stay and spend where we're not wanted? Actually a lot of people do want us to take our own beds, and the holiday accommodation used to relieve the housing crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 It's good to HEAR that John - it'd be even better to SEE it. I'm not yet seeing signs on council boudaries or TIO websites inviting us to visit, and offering something other than overpriced caravan sites! Honourable exceptions of course, but they ARE exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Tony Jones - 2016-12-26 8:47 AM It's good to HEAR that John - it'd be even better to SEE it. I'm not yet seeing signs on council boudaries or TIO websites inviting us to visit, and offering something other than overpriced caravan sites! Honourable exceptions of course, but they ARE exceptions. I was listening to Radio Devon at Easter where a landlord was bemoaning the fact that all his 5 holiday accommodation units were empty whilst the place was full of campers. Another guy phoned in and told him to reduce the price of his holiday lets so the locals could afford them to relieve the housing crisis. So are we to help the homeless by camping, or landlords by paying their extortionate rents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Come to Rhyl you can park overnight for free on the prom after 1800 hrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 "Codes 23 and 91 both DO refer to parking the wrong type of vehicle in a designated space, however there does not appear top be any Code prohibiting sleeping in a vehicle. "As stated by Seannatchie. This is how most people would read Codes 23 & 91 and I understand Seannatchie driving home his point by using capitals for "do", but, (sorry, there's always a " but") if he would care to read codes 23 & 91 again, word for word he seems to have replaced the word "class" with the word "type" which, according to The MOT & The DVLA is a totally different thing. If you take a look at your vehicle's registration certificate have a look at the class of your vehicle. Now I don't know what is printed on yours but on my Mercedes Vito Camper it states that it comes under the class of PLG. Private light goods. So if a council or who ever issues you witha PNC 23 or 91 that is for parking the wrong class of vehicle. A camper, motorhome is a type of vehicle. Look at your reg. certificate. So, again, there is NO PNC code for the a type of vehicle only for a class of vehicle. *- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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