marksrv6 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I thought this story was worth passing on. My brother is spending the winter in the Algarve in his MH and he met a chap on an aire with burns on his hands and face. To cut a long story short he was refilling his gas at a service station with his fridge running on gas still switched on. Anyone using refillable bottles (myself included) knows that when you disconnect the filling hose there is a short burst of gas emitted from the hose at the filling point, apparently this was ignited by his fridge and cause a flash fire burning his hands and face. The service station has now banned MH from filling their gas bottles. I don't know the location of the fridge to the bottles or the make or model of the MH. I hope this may be of interest to someone. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 It pays to use a bit of common sense when filling up with gas. Is the boiler OFF/space heater OFF, is the Fridge either manually on 12V or switched to AES mode (eg not on GAS). The AES mode will prevent the fridge switching to GAS for 15 mins after engine-off. Ditto keeping an eye open for eejits smoking nearby! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 This April 2016 forum discussion mentions a similar episode: http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Filling-L-P-G-at-Morrisons/41481/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Surely if you are going onto a service station to fill up with gas / diesel or petrol, you should not have a naked flame. ( fridge on gas ) anyway . Just asking for trouble. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Darwinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 marksrv6 - 2016-12-16 9:06 PM The service station has now banned MH from filling their gas bottles.Mark As always it's the sensible ones who end up losing. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Should always turn bottles off when filling bottle.Why was he running fridge on gas when driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Mickt - 2016-12-17 12:45 PM ..Why was he running fridge on gas when driving. I suppose it could've been for any number of "reasons"?... He was unaware that he shouldn't?... He was aware but just forgot?... or He was aware but thought that he knew better, as he'd been doing it for years and therefore considered such guidance as just "elf'n'safety" nonsense? (I'd put my money on the last one... ;-) ) By the sounds of it he was lucky he didn't send the whole filling station skywards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Was the refillable bottle installed in the van?.......... As I'm aware that they're quite lax in Portugal and some folk have lose bottles which they refill, so was he just filling the bottle independently by the fridge vents? :-S ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksrv6 Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-17 3:04 PM Was the refillable bottle installed in the van?.......... As I'm aware that they're quite lax in Portugal and some folk have lose bottles which they refill, so was he just filling the bottle independently by the fridge vents? :-S ......... As this story is second, I can't be sure! but my understanding was that he was filling via the proper connection to installed bottles on his MH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 With both gas bottles connected but with their valves closed not only will there be nothing alight in the van but neither will there be any risk of damage to the regulator or anything else internal due to the very high pressure from the pump needed to refill the bottle. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Was it a self build? My set up won't run the fridge on gas when the engine is running, and will not allow it to be lit for ten minutes after stopping to prevent this sort of thing happening. (The valves also should be closed when filling anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Irrespective of the rights and wrongs and supposition of what he may have done, it is after all a salutary lesson for us all, isn't it ? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksrv6 Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 AlanS - 2016-12-17 5:22 PM Irrespective of the rights and wrongs and supposition of what he may have done, it is after all a salutary lesson for us all, isn't it ? Alan Yep, that was the purpose of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 thebishbus - 2016-12-17 8:51 AM Surely if you are going onto a service station to fill up with gas / diesel or petrol, you should not have a naked flame. ( fridge on gas ) anyway . Just asking for trouble. Brian B. In my first motorhome - that had a ‘traditional’ Dometic 3-way fridge with separate controls for gas, 12V or 230V operation - I’ve driven with the fridge running on gas In my present motorhome - that has a Thetford SES fridge - I’ve manually selected gas-only operation (thus overriding the fridge’s automatic energy. selection feature) and driven with the fridge running on gas. In neither instance did I do this intentionally. Murphy’s Law states that anything that can go wrong will go wrong. If there’s the potential for a fridge to be running on gas when the vehicle is at a service-station, sooner or later that’s going to happen. However careful people are, nobody is infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I too have inadvertently driven with the fridge on gas, and the heating/hot water on gas too, and the simple action of turning off the gas bottles off at source when refilling negates any risk from flame or pilot lights on board your own vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROND Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Reading about this on another website it seems that the guy that had the accident was filling ordinary gas bottles without a 80% cut off with one of those rogue adaptors when the gun came away from the adaptor, the liquid gas shot into the fridge next to the bottle that was alight. A disaster waiting to happen it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROND Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Here is a copy of the letter sent in by JJ which I have copied and might explain what happened Having arrived in Silves, I have talked with the man mentioned in the article in the OP, who had the accident filling his gas bottle. The actual man himself. A well known and well liked motorhomer. As far as I can tell from his description and that of another guy he also told the story to, it is a tale of almost unbelievable errors and mistakes made by inexperience and lack of understanding. First, the van was new to the guy. He had bought it PRIVATELY. The seller had explained to him how to refill his gas bottles. I don't think he did this very well! The gas bottles were NOT filled via a fitting in the van wall. A bottle refilling adapter came with the van. This adapter DID NOT have a non return valve in it. The man had not refilled gas before, and did NOT know about the 2 litres per kilo rule. He had two gas bottles. When one ran out he fitted the full one. The two bottles were in the locker next to his fridge. He arrived at the fuel station and connected the cowboy adapter to the empty bottle. He fitted the pump to the cowboy adapter. He did NOT turn off the other gas bottle that was running his fridge at the time. He pressed the delivery button on the pump which was out of arm reach from the head of the gun. The bottle filled but, at some stage, the pump head came out of the cowboy adapter and gas started spraying out of the bottle. Being approximately ten inches from the fridge vent, this gas ignited and shot flames out, towards the garage holding tank and equipment. In an understandable panic, he reached through the flames and turned off the gas tap on the bottle sustaining severe burns to his arm and face. The garage pump sustained damage and the whole thing has since been replaced. His van was unharmed. He is a tad nervous about refilling gas bottles. There was absolutely nothing wrong or faulty with the garage pump or fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Hi I have a friend who uses the cowboy adaptors without issues - in the right hands, i'm sure they are fine, but they are sold to anyone who wants one and you cannot guarantee that they will be used sensibly. Unfortunately, for your average motor-homer they are simply a disaster waiting to happen. In my opinion if you can afford to buy and run a motor home you can afford to have a gas-it/gaslow/etc system fitted - heck we are talking about an easy DIY job costing about 300 quid - it can even be taken with you to your next van. Rather than seeing all vans, no matter what filling mechanism is used banned from filling up at forecourts, I would rather see all vans without an externally fitted LPG filler banned. Pretty simple for the person taking the cash to, with minimum training check for a properly fitted external filler before turning the gas on. A properly fitted filler is NOT: - Attached direct to the gas bottle (temporarily or permanently) - Hidden inside the gas locker requiring door to be open in order to fill - Attached to the outside of the gas locker door A properly fitted filler is fitted either under a sill, or better still, on the vehicle bodywork. IMHO of course ;-) Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auditor Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 veletron - 2016-12-19 12:50 PM A properly fitted filler is NOT: - Attached direct to the gas bottle (temporarily or permanently) - Hidden inside the gas locker requiring door to be open in order to fill - Attached to the outside of the gas locker door A properly fitted filler is fitted either under a sill, or better still, on the vehicle bodywork. IMHO of course ;-) Nigel My Gaslow system was professionally installed by a Gaslow approved fitter, with the filler on the outside of the gas locker door, in 2005. It has a Gaslow stainless steel hose between the filler and the bottles. The Gaslow MD has seen this set up, himself, when I took my motorhome to them, a couple of years ago, for advice. He never made any adverse comments about the filler having been installed in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 ROND - 2016-12-17 8:26 PM Here is a copy of the letter sent in by JJ which I have copied and might explain what happened Having arrived in Silves, I have talked with the man mentioned in the article in the OP, who had the accident filling his gas bottle. The actual man himself. A well known and well liked motorhomer. As far as I can tell from his description and that of another guy he also told the story to, it is a tale of almost unbelievable errors and mistakes made by inexperience and lack of understanding. First, the van was new to the guy. He had bought it PRIVATELY. The seller had explained to him how to refill his gas bottles. I don't think he did this very well! The gas bottles were NOT filled via a fitting in the van wall. A bottle refilling adapter came with the van. This adapter DID NOT have a non return valve in it. The man had not refilled gas before, and did NOT know about the 2 litres per kilo rule. He had two gas bottles. When one ran out he fitted the full one. The two bottles were in the locker next to his fridge. He arrived at the fuel station and connected the cowboy adapter to the empty bottle. He fitted the pump to the cowboy adapter. He did NOT turn off the other gas bottle that was running his fridge at the time. He pressed the delivery button on the pump which was out of arm reach from the head of the gun. The bottle filled but, at some stage, the pump head came out of the cowboy adapter and gas started spraying out of the bottle. Being approximately ten inches from the fridge vent, this gas ignited and shot flames out, towards the garage holding tank and equipment. In an understandable panic, he reached through the flames and turned off the gas tap on the bottle sustaining severe burns to his arm and face. The garage pump sustained damage and the whole thing has since been replaced. His van was unharmed. He is a tad nervous about refilling gas bottles. There was absolutely nothing wrong or faulty with the garage pump or fittings. Thanks for the clarification ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 My Rapido motorhome has a Gaslow R67 Direct Fill gas cylinder. http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Cylinders Refilling is via a Gaslow-marketed adapter that screws on to the cylinder’s inlet. The adapter is ’straight-through’ and has no integrated non-return valve. The reasons for me choosing this arrangement are several-fold. It’s simpler (and cheaper) than having another hose leading from the bottle’s inlet to an external remote filling-point and it avoids cutting holes in the motorhome to mount the remote filling-point. Also, given where Rapido has installed the gas-locker on my 640F model, installing a remote filling-point in the vehicle’s bodywork would (realistically) be impracticable, while mounting the filling-point on a bracket beneath the locker would make it vulnerable to damage and complicate the filling process. My understanding is that user-refillable gas-bottles in French-registerd motorhomes must have an external filling-point, but the bottles themselves must also be ‘permanently’ installed with either a metal strap holding them in place or with their bases secured by bolts. As far as I’m aware there are no such regulations in the UK and, frankly, I can see no more danger in me connecting my Gaslow bottle to an LPG pump via its direct-fill adapter, to connecting it to a pump via a remote filling-point. Obviously, in my case, refilling will involve opening the gas-locker’s door and this might cause a service-station attendant concern (though that’s never happened to me) but I could argue that - where a Rapido 640F is concerned - if the fridge adjacent to the gas-locker had been inadvertently left running on gas - the open door might provide some protection if things went horribly wrong and gas exited from the bottle. A car-type LPG filling-point is not a panacea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Auditor - 2016-12-19 2:06 PM My Gaslow system was professionally installed by a Gaslow approved fitter, with the filler on the outside of the gas locker door, in 2005. It has a Gaslow stainless steel hose between the filler and the bottles. The Gaslow MD has seen this set up, himself, when I took my motorhome to them, a couple of years ago, for advice. He never made any adverse comments about the filler having been installed in this position. Said Gaslow MD really should take a read of his own company's installation instructions then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Hi Steve.. I thought the same as you ( as I had recalled seeing the Gaslow notice that you've posted). However, their advice has changed and they now deem door mounting the filler point to be okay, as long as the hose is routed correctly. Page 2 on here- http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/Filling-Instructions-2012.pdf Either way, I couldn't imagine many company MDs proclaiming, "..Christ! we've botched that up, haven't we!.." within in earshot of the customer. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 So they have - thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.