Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I await some input from our resident apologists for open borders? :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Maybe most think it's a bit too soon for political point scoring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 candapack - 2016-12-20 10:56 PM Maybe most think it's a bit too soon for political point scoring? There ain't any scores on the doors.........Just dead people *-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm not sure open doors policy or not would stop this kind of thing. 9/11, 7/7? Plenty of others to take you pick from. We dont even know who the driver of the lorry was yet. Terrorists can emerge from anywhere. Get on a plane, could be an asylum seeker, could be and often are home grown. The 7/7 bombers were all British. What can we do? Stop meddling in countries and wars in the middle east perhaps. Unfortunately as a result of the turmoil that we have played a part in and still are there is a refugee crisis, a small proportion of these have made their way to Europe. Some may be chancers or a few even terrorists but what should we do with them? Push them all back into the sea just in case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-20 10:36 PM I await some input from our resident apologists for open borders? :-| ....... Says the non-resident currently swanning around in Spain courtesy of open borders and freedom of movement. *-) ALL Brexiteers should have their passports immediately revoked and forbidden from travelling anywhere outside UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Barryd999 - 2016-12-20 11:30 PM I'm not sure open doors policy or not would stop this kind of thing. 9/11, 7/7? Plenty of others to take you pick from. We dont even know who the driver of the lorry was yet. Terrorists can emerge from anywhere. Get on a plane, could be an asylum seeker, could be and often are home grown. The 7/7 bombers were all British. What can we do? Stop meddling in countries and wars in the middle east perhaps. Unfortunately as a result of the turmoil that we have played a part in and still are there is a refugee crisis, a small proportion of these have made their way to Europe. Some may be chancers or even terrorist but what should we do with them? Push them back into the sea? A small proportion?.......a large proportion can be laid at the door of Frau Merkel and her misguided ego *-) ....... If the stupid woman had not invited them, then they would not be heading to Europe in their masses....... Nor would they be dying in the attempt, not to mention giving Messer's ISIS and Co a all expenses paid trip to the EU .....So yes Nigel Farge is correct its mostly all her fault :-| ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-20 11:37 PM pelmetman - 2016-12-20 10:36 PM I await some input from our resident apologists for open borders? :-| ....... Says the non-resident currently swanning around in Spain courtesy of open borders and freedom of movement. *-) ALL Brexiteers should have their passports immediately revoked and forbidden from travelling anywhere outside UK. Please keep up at the back *-) ...... We're currently back in Blighty much to the annoyance of some :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-20 11:41 PM Barryd999 - 2016-12-20 11:30 PM I'm not sure open doors policy or not would stop this kind of thing. 9/11, 7/7? Plenty of others to take you pick from. We dont even know who the driver of the lorry was yet. Terrorists can emerge from anywhere. Get on a plane, could be an asylum seeker, could be and often are home grown. The 7/7 bombers were all British. What can we do? Stop meddling in countries and wars in the middle east perhaps. Unfortunately as a result of the turmoil that we have played a part in and still are there is a refugee crisis, a small proportion of these have made their way to Europe. Some may be chancers or even terrorist but what should we do with them? Push them back into the sea? A small proportion?.......a large proportion can be laid at the door of Frau Merkel and her misguided ego *-) ....... If the stupid woman had not invited them, then they would not be heading to Europe in their masses....... Nor would they be dying in the attempt, not to mention giving Messer's ISIS and Co a all expenses paid trip to the EU .....So yes Nigel Farge is correct its mostly all her fault :-| ..... Yes Dave. Only 10% of refugees from war torn countries like Syria make it to Europe. Thats how big a problem it is. Ive mentioned it God knows how many times. Maybe you skipped over it. I think they were already on their way here though before Merkal invited them. I Wont get drawn into a debate about Nigel after what he came out with today as I like this forum and do not want to be banned. Nuff said. Civilised society cannot turn its back on genuine refugees, its as simple as that. What happened in Germany is tragic and my thoughts go out to those people and their poor families but we have no facts about which individual was behind it or where they were from or anything. I dont think ISIS, Al Qaeda or whatever they are calling themselves these days are an organised terrorist organisation. If they were this kind of vile act would be happening all the time and on a much bigger scale. Statistically the west suffered much more terrorism in the 70's than it is now. These people are just flaming hooligans acting on their own probably. We can only hope our security services continue (most of the time) To keep one step ahead of them but we dont stop helping people just because of a tiny minority of twisted fundamentalist nutcases. We are better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-20 11:43 PM We're currently back in Blighty much to the annoyance of some :D ...... Permanently now..........if you have the courage to stand by your convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Barryd999 - 2016-12-21 12:31 AM Yes Dave. Only 10% of refugees from war torn countries like Syria make it to Europe. Thats how big a problem it is. Ive mentioned it God knows how many times. Maybe you skipped over it. I think they were already on their way here though before Merkal invited them. I Wont get drawn into a debate about Nigel after what he came out with today as I like this forum and do not want to be banned. Nuff said. I saw that too. Totally disgraceful remark from a so called "politician". He's now been asked to rescind the remark and issue an apology or face legal action. The current tide of euphoria of right wing nut jobs is going to be short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 1:13 AM Barryd999 - 2016-12-21 12:31 AM Yes Dave. Only 10% of refugees from war torn countries like Syria make it to Europe. Thats how big a problem it is. Ive mentioned it God knows how many times. Maybe you skipped over it. I think they were already on their way here though before Merkal invited them. I Wont get drawn into a debate about Nigel after what he came out with today as I like this forum and do not want to be banned. Nuff said. I saw that too. Totally disgraceful remark from a so called "politician". He's now been asked to rescind the remark and issue an apology or face legal action. The current tide of euphoria of right wing nut jobs is going to be short lived. Nope your wrong ... The current tide of euphoria of right wing nut jobs won't be short lived simply because the problem will still exist ... What you see as living in glorious harmony side by side with the Muslim world many see as the Islamification of Europe and all the delights that brings to those areas affected ... Of course you use your own tasty choice of words to label those who don't care for such a world and thats your right up to a point just as its my right and many others to show concern , doesn't make anyone a nut job in my book ... As for Nigels comments he's absolutely bang on and if he needs to do crowd funding for any possible court case I'd gladly give to that , maybe we can have some wet luvvies putting an advert together to appeal for funds him as they do so enjoy preaching to us during the ad breaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 1:13 AM The current tide of euphoria of right wing nut jobs is going to be short lived. Must be my imagination that right wing parties are on the rise.......and left wing parties like Labour are losing supporters to parties like UKIP :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 12:58 AM pelmetman - 2016-12-20 11:43 PM We're currently back in Blighty much to the annoyance of some :D ...... Permanently now..........if you have the courage to stand by your convictions. Why?.........As far as I'm concerned I'm visiting another sovereign nation, not the EU ;-) ......... So using your somewhat befuddled logic BREXIT folk shouldn't visit the USA, Morocco, Norway etc either? *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Barryd999 - 2016-12-21 12:31 AM Yes Dave. Only 10% of refugees from war torn countries like Syria make it to Europe. Thats how big a problem it is. Ive mentioned it God knows how many times. Maybe you skipped over it. Its not just about the refugees.......Its about the millions of economic migrants........just how many Eastern European Big Issue sellers do we need? *-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Germany have offered a 100.000 Euro reward for info on the Turkish Muslim they suspect carried out yet another Muslim related terror attack that killed yet again innocent folk ... Goodness , 100.000 Euros probably doesn't go a long way in housing and feeding , clothing and educating these new Muslim intakes to Germany ... Im with Geert Wilders ... Wether this Muslim is a recent migrant or not the poor folk of Germany are paying a very , very high price for Mrs Merkels wartime conscience ... Sleep well Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-21 9:55 AM Why?.........As far as I'm concerned I'm visiting another sovereign nation, not the EU ;-) ......... It's an EU country. You want closed borders and no freedom of movement (what you prefer to call "controlled"). I'd have more respect for your moral high ground Dave if you and other Brexiters began living according to your principles rather than making excuses. So using your somewhat befuddled logic BREXIT folk shouldn't visit the USA, Morocco, Norway etc either? *-) ......... Oh much more than that. No more buying foreign imports for you lot and that includes everything from bargain priced tellys, the computer you are using right now, to the vehicles you drive. For cars that could be a problem as only four are British owned and built, Ariel, Morgan, McLaren and Caterham......none of which you can afford so i'll be generous and allow vehicles built in UK which broadens the field a bit more. Hhmmm.......now remind me, how many Motorhome builders do we have using chassis' built in UK? I think you might have to go back to roughing it in a tent as we make plenty of those. pelmetman - 2016-12-21 9:59 AM Barryd999 - 2016-12-21 12:31 AM Yes Dave. Only 10% of refugees from war torn countries like Syria make it to Europe. Thats how big a problem it is. Ive mentioned it God knows how many times. Maybe you skipped over it. Its not just about the refugees.......Its about the millions of economic migrants........just how many Eastern European Big Issue sellers do we need? *-) ............ In my local town yesterday i met my first ever seller of Big Issue outside a Supermarket. A polite young lad from Romania. Naturally i bought a copy but also enjoyed good conversation with him as i could chat about the places i'd been too in his country such as this road; http://oi65.tinypic.com/343t8o5.jpg described by Clarkson as 'the best driving road in the world' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq4ydUVgYTY I'm not sure where you've plucked your wildly inaccurate "millions" of migrants from at all. Daily Wail or Star probably or some other right wing rag mag. According to the ONS which publishes factual figures rather than xenophobic hyperbole, year ending June 2016 net migration to UK was 189,000 EU citizens and 196,000 non-EU citizens. So more came from non-EU countries than EU. Total immigration was 650,000 but 384,000 emigrated from UK to other countries. Some of those of course would include British citizens. Those seeking asylum in UK the figure is just 185 for every million UK citizens.....Ireland, Iceland and Switzerland received and accepted more than UK. In relation to thread topic, 'lone wolf' attacks present a greater threat than IS as a collective whole (which is pretty much a spent force now) because nobody knows who or where they are. That the driver of the Polish truck he'd hijacked after murdering the Polish driver then escaped is not the normal 'mo' either. The truck owner first became suspicious when he tried to contact his driver at 4pm, but he failed to answer his phone. The owner then accessed the truck tracking data to gather more information. Channel 4 news reported last night and spoke with the truck owner. The driver was his cousin. The report shows the tracking timeline from 3min 47 seconds in on the linked clip; https://www.channel4.com/news/berlin-attack-police-release-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Welcome home Dave and a merry christmas, the weather here might be better too. As to the remoners fantacies when I toured mainland Europe in the 60s and early 70s I never got stopped at any border crossing exept the UK. so why is it going to be different and the money was easy I just used Eurocheques. The people were happy for me to spend in their countries and they will still like it when we do most need our tourism all the rest is just noise. John :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 teflon2 - 2016-12-21 7:43 PM Welcome home Dave and a merry christmas, the weather here might be better too. As to the remoners fantacies when I toured mainland Europe in the 60s and early 70s I never got stopped at any border crossing exept the UK. so why is it going to be different and the money was easy I just used Eurocheques. The people were happy for me to spend in their countries and they will still like it when we do most need our tourism all the rest is just noise. John :D Helmstedt-Marienborn border crossing 1970's. http://oi67.tinypic.com/33mybe8.jpg Same place today. http://oi64.tinypic.com/2lxig4n.jpg Its on the A2 if you want to Google image or look at it on G/Earth. All the old border buildings, searchlights, watchtowers, razor wire fencing and detention blocks where you'd "disappear" are still there. It's a Museum piece now, confined to history along with the evil scum who once manned it........thank God. Sadly it seems some want to drag us all back to those times but i know which i prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 9:03 PM Sadly it seems some want to drag us all back to those times but i know which i prefer. You mean we'll have to go through passport control to enter Europe?............Just like we do now eh? (lol) ....... But I don't doubt the EU will have to put the barriers back up at the borders to the EU........ it wont be because of BREXIT though .........It'll be because they're open border is no deterrent to terrorists *-) ....... Unlike Barry and yourself I doubt there's many EU citizens who think terrorism is a fair price to pay for open borders :-| ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 5:25 PM In my local town yesterday i met my first ever seller of Big Issue outside a Supermarket. A polite young lad from Romania. Naturally i bought a copy but also enjoyed good conversation with him as i could chat about the places i'd been too in his country Did you ask him how much he's contributed to the UK economy? ;-) .......... Which will be nowt, although he'll be getting hundreds of pounds a month from the UK taxpayer *-) ......... But never mind money grows on trees here in benefit Britain dont it :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-21 10:44 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 9:03 PM Sadly it seems some want to drag us all back to those times but i know which i prefer. You mean we'll have to go through passport control to enter Europe?............Just like we do now eh? (lol) ....... But I don't doubt the EU will have to put the barriers back up at the borders to the EU........ it wont be because of BREXIT though .........It'll be because they're open border is no deterrent to terrorists *-) ....... Unlike Barry and yourself I doubt there's many EU citizens who think terrorism is a fair price to pay for open borders :-| ........... Terrorism isnt happening because of open borders though Dave. Terrorism is happening because of the radicalisation of some Muslims by some pretty twisted and evil people and because of the wests continued meddling in the middle east. Its convenient for some though to blame any recent or future terrorism on recent policies to allow refugees into Europe as a means to an end to turn their backs on every one just in case. I agree with some of what you said earlier though. I dont want to see millions of "economic" migrants flooding into Europe either but at the same time I dont want to see genuine refugees turned away either. I believe that most people in Europe will feel the same. Not all but most. As I said earlier. The small pockets of terrorism that we see in Europe from Islamic terrorists has been going on for 15 years now. Its not a new thing since there has been a refugee crisis. As I said earlier, what would you rather we did (by we I mean Europe)? Just turn everyone away, close all our borders and wash our hands with it all? Do you think this would stop terrorism? What about all the home grown terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-21 10:44 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 9:03 PM Sadly it seems some want to drag us all back to those times but i know which i prefer. You mean we'll have to go through passport control to enter Europe?............Just like we do now eh? (lol) ....... At the moment you pass through one border control. When Little Englanders pull up the drawbridge then i expect European countries will possibly rip up the Schengen agreement hence why i want Brexit voters blocked from travelling outside the UK. No more freedom of movement for you lot. Remain voters will be given priority passage to the ports and at all borders whilst you spend your holidays queuing in Operation Stack on the M20. Nothing would give me greater joy. pelmetman - 2016-12-21 10:52 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 5:25 PM In my local town yesterday i met my first ever seller of Big Issue outside a Supermarket. A polite young lad from Romania. Naturally i bought a copy but also enjoyed good conversation with him as i could chat about the places i'd been too in his country Did you ask him how much he's contributed to the UK economy? ;-) .......... Which will be nowt, although he'll be getting hundreds of pounds a month from the UK taxpayer *-) ......... But never mind money grows on trees here in benefit Britain dont it :-| ......... There you go again with more conjecture and wild hyperbole. Check before hitting the keyboard. It's £229.40 a month with a max of £289.60 if able to prove you are actively seeking work. I suggest you read this link if you think it's so easy. Can EU migrants easily claim benefits when they arrive in another EU country? No - there are conditions, depending on an individual's circumstances. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 11:20 PM There you go again with more conjecture and wild hyperbole. Check before hitting the keyboard. It's £229.40 a month with a max of £289.60 if able to prove you are actively seeking work. I suggest you read this link if you think it's so easy. Can EU migrants easily claim benefits when they arrive in another EU country? No - there are conditions, depending on an individual's circumstances. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521 Ahem ;-) ........ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090012/One-Big-Issue-sellers-Romanian-homes-AND-claim-benefits.html Just in case you cant bring yourself to open a DM link :D ......... https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jun/05/the-big-issue-iain-duncan-smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Barryd999 - 2016-12-21 11:13 PM As I said earlier, what would you rather we did (by we I mean Europe)? Just turn everyone away, close all our borders and wash our hands with it all? Do you think this would stop terrorism? What about all the home grown terrorism? YES ;-) .........But apart from making it more difficult for terrorist tourists there is another inconvenient truth that none of you loony liberals wish to acknowledge ........ More than 10,000 migrants/refugees have died in 2016 trying to reach La La land *-) ....... Who's fault is that eh?????.......... Us folk who think they should stay in their own countries and be helped, or you folk who want them to come >:-) .......... Never mind the 10,000 collateral damage, just so long as the loony liberals have nice shiny halos :-| ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-22 9:21 AM Barryd999 - 2016-12-21 11:13 PM As I said earlier, what would you rather we did (by we I mean Europe)? Just turn everyone away, close all our borders and wash our hands with it all? Do you think this would stop terrorism? What about all the home grown terrorism? YES ;-) .........But apart from making it more difficult for terrorist tourists there is another inconvenient truth that none of you loony liberals wish to acknowledge ........ More than 10,000 migrants/refugees have died in 2016 trying to reach La La land *-) ....... Who's fault is that eh?????.......... Us folk who think they should stay in their own countries and be helped, or you folk who want them to come >:-) .......... Never mind the 10,000 collateral damage, just so long as the loony liberals have nice shiny halos :-| ...... Sorry Dave but that is just a ridiculous statement. Its the fault of people like me that want to help genuine refugees that 10000 of them have died? Nobody wants them to come here. We want them to be safe in their own countries. Do you think they would risk such a journey if there was any chance of them being helped in their own countries? Do you think they are coming to Europe just for a laugh and a bit of a holiday? What makes me angry is the world I thought I used to know where we cared about others just seems to have gone down the toilet lately. Everyone is totally out for themselves. As long as we are alright sod the rest of them. Nobody seems to give a sh1t anymore about anyone else, especially if they are a bit foreign. If you do, you are branded a loony liberal, wet, leftie, apologist etc. Is caring about others just something the lefties do then Dave? And why should one assume a Liberal is a loony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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