cruiser Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 We have a 2004 Rimor Europeo based on a Ford Transit. It was fitted with Michelin Camping tyres (in as-new condition) when we bought in 2007, and they're still on the van. Having said that, the front two need replacing now, before the April MOT. I've been reading countless threads, on various sites, about the need to change tyres at between 6 and 10 years, and went to my local tyre guy (experienced and trustworthy) to discuss the overall situation. He agreed that the front two needed changing, but here's the rub....he thoroughly checked the rear tyres, medium wear and no sign whatsoever of sidewall cracking or degrading. He suggested that he would be quite happy to leave them on for one more season, and change them in 2018. Bearing in mind that they must be at least ten years old, maybe more, (I couldn't find the year stamp anywhere) should I take his advice and wait a year, or ignore him and fit new on the rear as well? I fully expect plenty of blow-out and tread-loss experience replies, but maybe some upbeat answers from owners driving on older Michelin tyres! Does the fact that it's a top quality brand mean longer life? Finally, the spare wheel mystery. The tyre on the spare is a brand-new Michelin, but we couldn't for the life of us work out how to remove it! It's slung under the rear, with a centrally-mounted 'arm' (rather like the small hand of a clock) holding the wheel in place. Looking through the spaces in the wheel, there seems to b a cable or rod holding the rim 'up' Anyone know how to lower it? There's no obvious dropping mechanism, no clue in the locker above it, or even in the battery compartment behind it. True, we didn't crawl underneath for an in-depth investigation due to the rain (this is Ireland). I know your next comment will be 'what about if you'd had a puncture?'.....well, I've a puncture-repair aerosol, and ADAC membership. (I always figured they would know the answer!) Braced for your replies......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I wouldn't feel happy with 13 + year old tyres. And, unless you plan to keep the van for another 10 years you might as well change them now and get the benefit rather than squeezing another year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 cruiser - 2017-01-31 3:19 PM I've been reading countless threads, on various sites, about the need to change tyres at between 6 and 10 years, and went to my local tyre guy (experienced and trustworthy) to discuss the overall situation. He agreed that the front two needed changing, but here's the rub....he thoroughly checked the rear tyres, medium wear and no sign whatsoever of sidewall cracking or degrading. He suggested that he would be quite happy to leave them on for one more season, and change them in 2018. Bearing in mind that they must be at least ten years old, maybe more, (I couldn't find the year stamp anywhere) should I take his advice and wait a year, or ignore him and fit new on the rear as well? Braced for your replies......... What price peace of mind ? I was in a similar position last year - two front tyres over 10 years old - loads of tread on both - in fact one was an ex-spare that had only done about 8000 miles. My tyre fitter agreed they were " o.k. for a while" But, I thought , why wait another 12 months ? Changing now wouldn't cost any more than changing next year. ( Might even be cheaper ? ) So, I changed - stopped ' worrying ' about them while travelling - and convinced myself that the ride was smoother. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 The year date stamp is only on one side of the tyre sidewall AFAIK. If you can't see it, check the other side. The rear wheels on the Rimor quite often came with twin tyres so it might be more difficult to check. It sounds as if your spare wheel is supported using a cable type winding mechanism. If so, there should be a socket above and to the side of the tyre where you can fit an extension bar with handle to wind it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 When we were restoring Citroen Hy vans which have a metric tyre which stopped being made about 15 years ago we were amazed at the number of vans with Michelin metric tyres that must have been at least 15 years old, probably 20. The condition of the tyres varied a lot, but generally the Michelins tended to be much, much better than you would expect. They made our usual advice of replacement every seven years look like it was dreamt up by Tyre Manufacturers who wanted to sell more tyres, not safety. We only ever heard/read of one blowout in 2 years, despite these vans tending to be fitted with catering equipment and stock that often took them well over 3,000kg when loaded. However, as said above by others, if you are going to replace them in a years time and they are going to last 10 years, then does it make sense to put off the purchase? If you do get a flat or failure, the consequences could be far more inconvenient and expensive than buying new now. If you do get a failure at 02:00 on a Sunday morning, in Gale force winds where the rain is travelling horizontal, and all the RAC man can source is a Tractor tyre for a Massey Ferguson TE21, you might wish................. Not all Tyre distributors stock all sizes/makes of Motorhome tyres. Getting the tyre you want at a good price (not double the norm because they know you are stuck) at a time that is convenient to you, might be worth replacing them now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Many thanks all, for taking the time and trouble to reply. I've taken all your comments and advice on board, and have decided to change all four. Better safe than sorry, I know. I'll also have a good snoop around the spare wheel when the weather improves. (May or June probably...) In closing, I think my situation is akin to finding that yoghurt in the back of the fridge......it's two weeks past it's date, but hey...it's a yoghurt....it'll be fine.....shame to throw it out,,,.....it looks OK....bits of strawberry in there....smells fine........but there's that date on the lid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 cruiser I believe your motorhome is the NG 10/P version of Rimor’s Europeo range (photo/details here) http://www.trovocamper.it/index.php?a=2&b=120153 http://tinyurl.com/jlfls96 As Robbo has suggested above, the spare-wheel lowering/raising mechanism used with your Transit should involve a cable wound round a ‘capstan’ located above the spare-wheel, with the capstan tuurned by a ‘windlass’ that is operated by a tool (eg. the wheel-brace or the jack-handle) in the Ford tool kit supplied with the vehicle. You should find general guidance in your Transit Owner’s Manual, but if you don’t have one the relevant section is shown in this link http://tinyurl.com/gkw7ng5 I have attached a photo showing the complete spare-wheel lowering/raising mechanism. The Transit Manual says "On Chassis cab and Flatbed truck, the guide hole is on the side of the vehicle, behind the right rear wheel.” However, this may not always be the case for Transit-based motorhomes as - when the motorhome bodywork has been added - it might no longer be practicable to access the ‘windlass’ if it were in its normal position. Consequently, if you can’t spot the windlass where the Manual says it should be, look elsewhere. If you identify the thick cable that emerges horizontally from above the spare-wheel and then follow the cable, the operating windlass will be at the cable’s far end. (If your motorhome’s spare-wheel has been in place since 2004, you might well find that the lowering/raising mechanism has seized up. It’s also worth adding that the windlass-connector that is turned by the tool-kit tool is poorly designed and not very sturdy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 If buying new tyres, why not ask them to put van on ramp and change the spare maybe with the best of the old tyres. , as has been stated , it has most probably seized , and would be a lot easier to free, if you can get to it easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 As the the spare-wheel has apparently never been fitted (the tyre on it was said to be brand-new) there’s no obvious benefit in replacing that tyre with one of the four worn ones that have been in regular use since the motorhome was built. I fully agree though that, while the four new tyres are being fitted, the spare-wheel should be removed, its condition thoroughly checked and the lowering/raising mechanism lubricated. Although motorhome tyre-age is regularly discussed, tyre-valve age seems to be generally overlooked. I suspect that cruiser’s Transit-based Rimor has standard rubber ‘car’ valves and that would include the valve on the spare-wheel. Although ‘blow outs’ of elderly tyres are occasionally reported, it’s quite possible that the cause is valve-failure rather than failure of the tyre itself. (Incidentally, I notice that the Europeo NG 10/P model could have a twinned-wheel rear axle or a single-wheel rear axle - I assume cruiser’s is the latter.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Spot on! Ours is the single wheel NG10P, we've only seen a two other ones in ten years of camping, and very rare to see a pic anywhere, so thanks for the links. (We love it btw!) Thanks for the spare wheel info, what would we all do without the Forum? Derek...I'd be interested in your take on the 'maximum tyre age' discussion...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 In 2005 I bought a Hobby T-600FC coachbuilt motorhome built on a FWD Ford Transit chassis. This had Continental Vanco-8 ‘white van’ tyres that tended to be standard fitment on Transit motorhomes then, rather than the ‘camping-car’ tyres that were sometimes fitted. The tyre-valves were TR600 high-pressure snap-in type that were also standard Transit fitment. In 2006 it became evident that an unusually high number of the TR600 valves factory-fitted to Transit wheels were failing. I was aware of this but (afflicted by a bout of uncharacteristic optimism) decided that it wasn’t likely to happen to my motorhome. In September 2007 in France the tyre-valves on the Hobby’s rear wheels both split. This resulted in about 60% of pressure being lost but, fortunately, the tyres did not fully deflate. As soon as practicable after that incident I had all five tyre-valves replaced with clamp-in valves and I had the most worn four of the motorhome’s five tyres replaced in 2011 (when the tyres were six years old) keeping the least worn original tyre on the spare-wheel. I sold the Hobby in 2014, so I had three years worth of driving on the replacement tyres. People drop dead - they might not be particularly old and might appear to be in perfect health, but suddenly they’ve gone and the reason may only be established by an autopsy. A ten-year tyre ‘working life' is plenty in my view. Even if there are no visual signs of degradation at that age doesn’t mean a tyre’s internal construction is still perfect. And, as malc d mentions, unless it’s planned to sell the motorhome very soon after the 10-year ‘deadline’, where is the benefit in waiting until tyres are older before changing them? You may as well get some mileage yourself out of replacement tyres as a buyer of your motorhome won’t refund the cost of near-new tyres to you. My wife’s 2009 Skoda car has done about 15000 miles and the four original Continental tyres on its alloy wheels were replaced with Hankook tyres in 2014 as they were ‘perishing’ at the base of the tread-grooves. Although the perishing wasn’t an MOT failure I just wasn’t happy with leaving the Continental tyres in place. The Skoda’s spare-wheel is a full-size steel one and has never been used. There’s no sign of perishing of its Continental tyre and I do not intend to replace it however old it gets. As far as I’m concerned it’s for emergencies only and in such circumstances I’d rather have a full-size unused elderly tyre on the car than a new ‘skinny’ one. I believe the you were very sensible deciding to replace the four original 13-years-old “XC Camping” tyres, despite there being plenty of tread-depth left on two of them and no signs of cracking/degradation. Personally (although it conflicts with received wisdom) I wouldn’t bother to replace the equally old (but unused) tyre on the spare-wheel as long as it looks in perfect condition, though you might want to consider having the valve replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Thanks for the detailed and informative reply.....much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Blow outs are a good scare tactic to sell new tyres. Some people seem to forget new tyres can fail too - even if you don't damage them straightaway with a pothole or puncture. I took out a new trailer with 8 all new Michelins and 5 failed within the first 1,000 miles (bad batch) But the good news is a blow out is unlikely to hurt you unless you are cornering or braking at the limits of the tyres grip. I have had countless blow outs on lorries (at least 100) including one on the front wheel of a 38 ton artic travelling in the centre lane of a busy motorway at 60mph. Nobody has been injured and none have caused more than minor vehicle damage (to mudflaps etc) My bicycle tyres lasted over 30 years :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-02 11:00 AM But the good news is a blow out is unlikely to hurt you unless you are cornering or braking at the limits of the tyres grip. My son had a blowout on the back of a loaded Sprinter in the fast lane of a busy M4. Luckily the people behind saw what was happening and gave him space to control it over 3 lanes, then he found that the debris had cut brake lines and he had to stop it on the gears and handbrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Muswell - 2017-02-02 11:44 AM John52 - 2017-02-02 11:00 AM But the good news is a blow out is unlikely to hurt you unless you are cornering or braking at the limits of the tyres grip. My son had a blowout on the back of a loaded Sprinter in the fast lane of a busy M4. Luckily the people behind saw what was happening and gave him space to control it over 3 lanes, then he found that the debris had cut brake lines and he had to stop it on the gears and handbrake. I thought the the brake lines are dual circuit and diagonally split. In which case its hard to see how the debris from the trye on one rear wheel could have reached the brake line on the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Maybe its hearing of tyre blow outs on the racing track that makes them seem so scary? In those exceptional circumstances of very high speed and tyres working at their limits it is likely to be far more serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-02 11:58 AM Muswell - 2017-02-02 11:44 AM John52 - 2017-02-02 11:00 AM But the good news is a blow out is unlikely to hurt you unless you are cornering or braking at the limits of the tyres grip. My son had a blowout on the back of a loaded Sprinter in the fast lane of a busy M4. Luckily the people behind saw what was happening and gave him space to control it over 3 lanes, then he found that the debris had cut brake lines and he had to stop it on the gears and handbrake. I thought the the brake lines are dual circuit and diagonally split. In which case its hard to see how the debris from the trye on one rear wheel could have reached the brake line on the other? The problem, I think, is that the master cylinders are in series and if you get a complete loss of fluid from one circuit you can run out of pedal travel. You certainly get a loss of efficiency. Sprinters seem to have problems with brake travel even when all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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