Motor home waste dumping atTeignmouth

[John Th]

Hi everybody, This my first post which, if true, highlights an awful disgusting habit and it,s reprocussions. to other motor home owners

As in the past we nave been frequent visitors in our m/h to the South Devon sea side town of Teignmouth,

There has been accusations and concerns of certain m/h.owners, and I quote,"dumping there mobile toilet waste down the road drains with a potential of fouling the near by sea area". The area concerned is the upper Den,and as some of you would know is a road that runs near to the sea front in the centre of the town close to the pier, it is open to free parking for 24 hrs.for some winter and spring months.

Due to illness we have not visited Teignmouth for a couple of years, so we do not know how bad, if true this disgusting and illegal habit has become, but at the odd times that we have stayed there we have never ever witnessed this taking place, Is this waste being mistaken for grey water?, which is still highly offensive.

Now sadly, the council have introduced parking charges and restrictions to this stretch of road, using the offending motorhomes as one of the reasons for these changes.

Naturally the local residents are far from happy with these changes, with some blameing the motorhomes and wanting them banned from the town altogether, where as some residents are saying the councill are just using the motor home misuse as a reason for the council to bring in these changes anyway as they are being brought in to other parts of the town as well

Teignmouth is a lovely town, it would be a real shame, if true,that the likes of these vans would bring a more stringent control of where we could park our motor homes.

For more info, please Google search, TEIGNMOUTH NEW PARKING REGULATIONS AT THE DEN.

and look at different options.

 

Many thanks John Thorne.

[Mike88]

John Th - 2017-03-05 3:28 PM

 

Hi everybody, This my first post which, if true, highlights an awful disgusting habit and it,s reprocussions. to other motor home owners

As in the past we nave been frequent visitors in our m/h to the South Devon sea side town of Teignmouth,

There has been accusations and concerns of certain m/h.owners, and I quote,"dumping there mobile toilet waste down the road drains with a potential of fouling the near by sea area". The area concerned is the upper Den,and as some of you would know is a road that runs near to the sea front in the centre of the town close to the pier, it is open to free parking for 24 hrs.for some winter and spring months.

Due to illness we have not visited Teignmouth for a couple of years, so we do not know how bad, if true this disgusting and illegal habit has become, but at the odd times that we have stayed there we have never ever witnessed this taking place, Is this waste being mistaken for grey water?, which is still highly offensive.

Now sadly, the council have introduced parking charges and restrictions to this stretch of road, using the offending motorhomes as one of the reasons for these changes.

Naturally the local residents are far from happy with these changes, with some blameing the motorhomes and wanting them banned from the town altogether, where as some residents are saying the councill are just using the motor home misuse as a reason for the council to bring in these changes anyway as they are being brought in to other parts of the town as well

Teignmouth is a lovely town, it would be a real shame, if true,that the likes of these vans would bring a more stringent control of where we could park our motor homes.

For more info, please Google search, TEIGNMOUTH NEW PARKING REGULATIONS AT THE DEN.

and look at different options.

 

Many thanks John Thorne.

 

As a local resident I support the introduction of charges (with reservation) which have been introduced partly as an attempt to deal with local complaints about the number of motorhomes taking up valuable space on the sea front previously used by town workers and others. I gather that the plan will be to introduce height barriers which will stop motorhomes altogether although this hasn't happened yet.

 

The number of motorhomes on the sea front has increased markedly over the years and I suspect there is the odd one living on the Den permanently. Regrettably some motorhomers adopt disgusting habits. It is not unusual to see wastes continuously left open leaving grey waste over the road while occupants are seemingly unconcerned sitting in their vans.

 

Some of the road drains stink which has led to the conclusion that black waste is poured down them. One evening, judging by the toilet paper on view, I suspect toilet(s) waste had been emptied on the beach. Unfortunately local residents have been deprived of free parking; the upper Den was useful in that it enabled residents to nip into the shops but now many of us don't bother and go to nearby supermarkets.

 

Many residents are fed up with motorhomes clogging up the sea front but motorhomers have not helped themselves or their cause through their anti social behaviour and the herding affect which many of us will recognise.

[John Th]

Thanks Mike H.

You are obviously experiencing this vile problem first hand, I can not believe that this is happening so close to the town centre.

I can never understand why the council could not impose on the spot fines to the offending people, or simply put up an official notice banning all motor homes from the Den.

When in Teignmouth, if early enough, we always try to park in one of the longer bays on the Point car park, Failure to that we go to Polly Steps.

On one occasion on the Point a few years ago there was a large m/home at the far end with water pouring from its underneath and running along the floor and down the sea wall and onto the sand.

I knocked on the door to tell the owner that his tank tap was open, only to be told that it was only shower water, I said, you know that and I know that, but people walking by do not. I went on to say that those selfish actions could get all motor homes banned from this car park.

I can recall a few years ago ( Highlighted in the MMM ) that the local council gave spaces on a car park for legal overnight sleeping, doing it,s best to accommodate the need for short term stop overs, but I am sure that this was scrapped due to misuse

As a local Mike, perhaps you can fill in more details of this withdrawn scheme.

 

John Thorne.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[crocs]

That's a real shame that this sort of thing is happening and should be clamped down on.

 

It's a pity, though, that an indiscriminate ban has been enforced which affects everyone, including residents. I'm a believer in ' the polluter pays' and would urge the council to adopt a 'no waste' byelaw and then enforce it.

 

Robert

[Mike88]

"As a local Mike, perhaps you can fill in more details of this withdrawn scheme."

 

I can't recall the precise reason although there were legal complications I believe as well as other issues including objections by local campsite operators. A similar scheme in nearby Dawlish was discontinued for various reasons but the only one I recall is that a peace camp of hippies was established imploring all and sundry to join them. The good will of the Council was being abused.

 

Waste water being emptied onto the Den and in the Point car park still happens. Unfortunately it is always the bad behaviour of the few that spoils it for everyone else.

[keninpalamos]

crocs - 2017-03-05 5:46 PM

 

That's a real shame that this sort of thing is happening and should be clamped down on.

 

It's a pity, though, that an indiscriminate ban has been enforced which affects everyone, including residents. I'm a believer in ' the polluter pays' and would urge the council to adopt a 'no waste' byelaw and then enforce it.

 

Robert

I don't think yet another law is necessary. Laws for polluting the public highway were brought in at the beginning of the 20th century a 100 yrs ago when you had to shout "below" when throwing waste out of a window onto some passing unsuspecting soul on the street. They just need to be enforced but as we no longer have any law enforcement and hopeless councils that are as stupid as the polluters either nothing gets done or the council go over the top with outrageous by laws which in turn are often illegal in themselves.

[John52]

(I have never seen litter thrown out of a motorhome. I have seen litter thrown out of cars - why not ban them instead?)

Raises an interesting question of whether the public road is for everyone, or only for certain sectors - residents, shoppers or whatever.

How do you decide who has more right to use the public road than others, and what about the wasted space of a valuble unused asset when they are not using it?

Can you expect a fair decision when its made by local councils who are only answerable to local voters?

In the meantime we have adding to congestion and polution driving round looking for a parking space because what spaces there are are restricted to people who are not currently using them? A valuble asset unused and wasted for much of the time.

[fesspark]

Ref permenant winter parking.as a resident of Teignbridge,I know of motorhomes parking on the sea front in winter by residents just to save on winter storage costs,only charging or restrictions on for how long you park will stop this.As for dumping ,as here in Spain where I am at the moment,only heavy fines will stop this.

[Muswell]

John52 - 2017-03-06 8:02 AM

 

 

Raises an interesting question of whether the public road is for everyone, or only for certain sectors - residents, shoppers or whatever.

How do you decide who has more right to use the public road than others, and what about the wasted space of a valuble unused asset when they are not using it?

 

I think that raises the question of whether it is a road, on which you can park but with restrictions, or whether it is a road and campsite. It seems that mostly these problems arise when people abuse the parking and start camping....which eventually provokes a draconian response. Regarding local councils, I think you could argue that the council's duty is to prioritise the wishes of the residents, especially when some of the non-residents seem to have no respect for the residents.

[Keith T]

As a 'local' (Dawlish) and also a MH owner, we visit Teignmouth regularly (train or car!) and have always been appalled at the growth in MHs parked along the seafront. It appeared there were no restrictions on this and I always thought it was very anti-social. They seem to stay there for long periods, and have gradually become more and more.

The new 'pay' charges now introduced do seem to be the subject of some controversy and even some of the local councillors are saying they did 'nt 'realise' this road was going to be included even though they voted for it!!!!

I would have thought the better way was to have a limit on length of parking time, and also an overnight ban on MH/Camping cars....

Personally I would never consider parking in such an area, with the MH, and there is usually plenty of space in a couple of nearby car parks.

I'm afraid its back to the old story that a few owners have spoiled it for everyone. If its a case of parking there instead of storage, then that's certainly not on, and there are several storage facilities available no too far away.

[John52]

Muswell - 2017-03-06 9:48 AM

 

Regarding local councils, I think you could argue that the council's duty is to prioritise the wishes of the residents,

How can you argue its their duty?

Thats how it is when decisions are placed in the hands of those who are only answerable to local voters. Councils decide who gets priority not on the basis of fairness or need, but on who can vote for them. So we see wasted assets of public road set aside for local voters only - even when they don't want to use it. Whilst others are driving round in circles looking for a space they canuse, adding to pcongestion and pollution.

 

Muswell - 2017-03-06 9:48 AM especially when some of the non-residents seem to have no respect for the residents.

Some of the residents seem to have no respect for other residents either. Playing loud music in flats is far more anti social than pouring grey waste down gulleys. There are already laws in place to deal with anti-social behaviour. Isn't it discriminatory to ban just one group of road users in case they committ an offence? A poor substitute for proper enforcement of existing laws.

[thebishbus]

I have even heard of people camping in residential roads and dumping their toilet waste in rubbish bins !.

 

Brian B.

[John52]

fesspark - 2017-03-06 9:13 AM

 

Ref permenant winter parking.as a resident of Teignbridge,I know of motorhomes parking on the sea front in winter by residents just to save on winter storage costs,only charging or restrictions on for how long you park will stop this..

 

I think that was the original idea of parking meters - so short term users could find a space. When they were first introduced in London they were cheap and lost money. Unfortunately the nature of local politics turned them into being used as a cash cow to raise money from those whose vote is in another area, in order to reduce the council tax for local voters. We now have the situation where the council tax on a 3 bed semi in some areas is higher that Buckingham Palace - largely because of the tax that Westminster Council extorts from visiting motorists.

[John52]

thebishbus - 2017-03-06 10:11 AM

 

I have even heard of people camping in residential roads and dumping their toilet waste in rubbish bins !.

 

Brian B.

 

I have heard of residents dumping their dog waste in them too ;-)

[Mike88]

Further to my earlier comments, this morning I walked along the sea front and there was not a single motorhome in sight. This is the first time I have witnessed the absence of motorhomes because normally there is always a minimum of a dozen or so parked along this short road.

 

As for charges I noted that parking is charged between the hours of 8am to 6pm. Between that time all day parking costs £4 and there are other charges for shorter stays. However, and this came as a surprise, you can get one hour free as long as you choose this option at the ticket machine. I was surprised that such a reasonable charge has deterred motorhomes but of course the weather is cold and damp at present so charging might not be the only reason for their absence. It is also possible that motorhomers stayed overnight for free and disappeared before charging comes in at 8am.

 

Of course if/when the height barriers are installed this will mean the sea front road will no longer be available. Unfortunately the few have ruined it for the many and abuse of local areas is also becoming more and more of an issue in France and Spain.

[Muswell]

John52 - 2017-03-06 10:05 AM

 

Muswell - 2017-03-06 9:48 AM

 

Regarding local councils, I think you could argue that the council's duty is to prioritise the wishes of the residents,

How can you argue its their duty?

 

Easily http://www.localgov.co.uk/The-role-of-a-local-government-councillor/34999

[Muswell]

John52 - 2017-03-06 10:18 AM

We now have the situation where the council tax on a 3 bed semi in some areas is higher that Buckingham Palace - largely because of the tax that Westminster Council extorts from visiting motorists.

 

So the rates on Buckingham Palace are low because of parking meters?

[John52]

Mike88 - 2017-03-06 11:10 AM

Of course if/when the height barriers are installed this will mean the sea front road will no longer be available. .

Its one thing to put height barriers on a car park, but what of the emergency service vehicles, refuse collection vehicles, delivery vehicles, etc that use that road?

[John52]

Muswell - 2017-03-06 11:40 AM

 

John52 - 2017-03-06 10:05 AM

 

Muswell - 2017-03-06 9:48 AM

 

Regarding local councils, I think you could argue that the council's duty is to prioritise the wishes of the residents,

How can you argue its their duty?

 

Easily http://www.localgov.co.uk/The-role-of-a-local-government-councillor/34999

 

That seems to stop short of saying local government should only consider local voters. Probably because it tends to be detrimental to the country as a whole (eg creating the housing crisis as nimbys block housebuilding, road congestion etc as nimbys block road building)

Even though, local politics being what is it, that is what they tend to do. :-S

[John52]

Muswell - 2017-03-06 11:46 AM

 

John52 - 2017-03-06 10:18 AM

We now have the situation where the council tax on a 3 bed semi in some areas is higher that Buckingham Palace - largely because of the tax that Westminster Council extorts from visiting motorists.

 

So the rates on Buckingham Palace are low because of parking meters?

 

Buckingham Palace pays the highest council tax band in Westminster, which is lower than a 3 bed semi in parts of the country that do not have Westminster Council's other sources of income - like its stealth taxes on visiting motorists.

So Britain's most affluent area pays its lowest council tax.

[Mike88]

John52 - 2017-03-06 11:51 AM

 

Mike88 - 2017-03-06 11:10 AM

Of course if/when the height barriers are installed this will mean the sea front road will no longer be available. .

Its one thing to put height barriers on a car park, but what of the emergency service vehicles, refuse collection vehicles, delivery vehicles, etc that use that road?

 

There are two cafes, a crazy golf course and a couple of tennis courts on the road and there is an alternative foot access.

[Tiggy]

Couple of points

1) As I understand it the problem was that some took a photo of a grey water pipe discharging into a drain. On the Den there is no drainage treatment before the water in question discharges to the sea. Apparently the drains are marked to show they discharge directly to the sea.

2) It's not Teignmouth who have installed the meters its Teignbridge Council that have effectively stolen our sea front and now want to charge us to park on it. Teignbridge pays its chief executive over £120,000 per year to make these decisions. Teignbridge is also famous for its lack of transparency, as shown in numerous Private Eye features about Councilors from theCoun il having to be taken to court to get them to pay their poll tax.

[foxy]

Why not install a continental style aire de camping car site with Fresh water ,grey waste, toilet dumping facility (payable) That way everyone benefits. Simple logic but oh no.

[StuartO]

Tiggy - 2017-03-08 3:10 PMCouple of points1) As I understand it the problem was that some took a photo of a grey water pipe discharging into a drain. On the Den there is no drainage treatment before the water in question discharges to the sea. Apparently the drains are marked to show they discharge directly to the sea.2) It's not Teignmouth who have installed the meters its Teignbridge Council that have effectively stolen our sea front and now want to charge us to park on it. Teignbridge pays its chief executive over £120,000 per year to make these decisions. Teignbridge is also famous for its lack of transparency, as shown in numerous Private Eye features about Councilors from theCoun il having to be taken to court to get them to pay their poll tax.

 

But you can understand non-motorhoming locals getting really hacked off with motorhomers in general if they see even one or two dumping water or waste where they shouldn't.  Even if the good guys amongst us  took issue if we spotted behaviour of that sort, we'd probably just get a mouthful and maybe worse.  There are a minority of motorhomes,not just Travellers, who are horrible people and they are rarely if ever brought to task.  That's the fundamental problem.

 

[John52]

Tiggy - 2017-03-08 3:10 PM

 

Couple of points

1) As I understand it the problem was that some took a photo of a grey water pipe discharging into a drain. On the Den there is no drainage treatment before the water in question discharges to the sea. Apparently the drains are marked to show they discharge directly to the sea.

.

 

If thats illegal they should prosecute the person responsible.

Would they ban all cars if they saw one car driver throw litter out the window?