tom1946 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Hello all, we have just become owners of a 2002 Autosleeper Starfire based on the Peugeot SWB 270 with a 1.9 TD engine. As we are virgins with Motorhoming there are a few things we don't know as we didn't get any manuals with it. We had the firms 'expert' do a talk through with us but we feel very much in the dark still. Our main concern at the moment is the Truma water and blown air system which to be fair works very well but having located a manual for it online I now realise that I am responsible for filling the water heater. This was never mentioned so could someone explain if I need to do anything please? eg' if I had a shower does it replenish itself from the main water tank supply? Confused, Teesside. thanks for any help. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Welcome. Being topped up from the fresh water tank is what usually happens, I would be suprised if yours is any different and while on the subject, when draining down from the heater it also empties the fresh water tank and pipes with the taps open that is. Only use the pump to shift the last dregs out. HTH B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom1946 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 Thanks for that Lance, when would I need to drain down? Wintertime when not in use or should it be drained periodically? if so where from. Thanks, sorry if I seem slow here but I know nothing about them. I had a toyota hiace in the 80's but it had nothing like this in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I think you will find your van was made by Autocruise, and not Auto Sleepers. The Truma Combi type combined space and water heater is, in principle, a quite simple device. As you have the Truma manual, you should be able to identify the main control unit and the manual is generally clear and well written in describing its modes of use. I'm assuming, therefore, that all you need to know is how/when to fill the heater with water to give the hot water supply. I'm not familiar with Autocruise motorhomes, but the procedure is generally straightforward. There is one proviso, and that is the presence of a low temperature safety drain valve that will open and dump all water from the heater if the air temperature in its vicinity falls below 5C. It will also fail to close if you try to fill the heater when the air is this cold. This is what Lance is referring to in his second paragraph. Otherwise, back to the beginning, make sure the Truma heater is off, and then begin filling the fresh water tank. Then, with this full, and with the water pump switched on, turn any tap to the cold position and turn it on. You should hear the pump begin working, and air and water should begin to splutter from the tap. Once the air has been purged, so you are getting a continuous stream of water from the tap, set any other taps/shower controls to the cold position, and turn them on (place the shower head in the wash basin if possible, to contain the spray). Finally, if the toilet uses the main fresh water tank for its flush water, flush the toilet (make sure the cassette is properly in place and the flap valve is open!) until it, too, produces a continuous stream. You should now have purged all air from the cold water system. Next, turn any tap to the hot position, and turn it on. You should hear the pump begin working and water and (mostly) air should begin to splutter from the tap. This will go on for a while as you are now filling the water heater which, from memory, holds in the region of 12 litres. After a while, you'll begin to get a stream of water as with the cold. Now open all other taps/shower control in the hot position and again persist until you gat a continuous stream of water from each. At this point you should have cleared the air from the hot water side as well. However, usually some air remains trapped somewhere, and to eliminate this it is often necessary to work back around the taps and shower control opening each at a time and swinging the temperature between hot and cold until all splutters cease. You may find it helpful to flush the toilet a time or two more to dislodge any air in that line. During this process you should see the stream of water issuing from whichever tap strengthen, indicating that pretty well all air is now purged. Finally, I tend to put the water heater on at max temperature 60C, and leave it to heat fully, and then run off hot through each tap in turn. This usually produces a bit more spluttering as the last dregs of air, which will now have expanded with the heat of the water, are purged. Don't be daunted, it'll probably take you less time to complete the process than it has taken me to write this! :-) Should you drain down? I say yes. Fresh water is chlorinated to keep it sterile, but the natural state of chlorine is as a gas. So, once you have filled your fresh water tank the chlorine will gradually leach from the water, leaving it unprotected after 48 hours or so. In that state it is prone to airborne contamination, as every time you run off water from the tank you draw in an equal volume of air that will contain whatever is around at the time - pollen grains, dust, etc. It is also essential to do this when cold weather is forecast. Not only because of that valve draining out the water, but also because of the reason the valve is there. We all know freezing water bursts pipes. It does this in motorhomes as well, and will also split tap bodies that haven't fully drained, but most importantly, it will split the water heater jacket in the Truma, which will be a very costly repair, which is the reason that low temperature drain valve is there. The valve is usually located somewhere hear the heater, which means that hot water can safely be used in cold weather because the heat from the heater/water heater will keep the Truma warm enough to prevent it from freezing. This is also the reason it is safe to use the space heating function with the hot water tank empty. If using the van in winter, with low temperatures, the low temperature drain valve will remain open until it warms up. So, first run the space heating to get the van warm, which will warm the drain valve, which it will then be possible to close, allowing you to fill and purge the hot water side as above. Then put the heater into water heating mode and, whether or not you leave the space heating running, maintain the hot water at its lowest setting (40C from memory) until the weather becomes warmer. That way the hot water in the Truma will keep the air around it warm enough to keep the valve from opening, and you can switch between hot water at 40C, 60C, or space heating, as suits your requirements. Hope this helps. If I've missed anything, someone else will soon point it out! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Brian I suspect that you are right in thinking that Tom owns an Autocruise “Starfire” (photo of example attached) but I believe that a 2002 version will have a Truma “S” ‘fire' for air heating and a separate 10-litre-capacity “Ultrastore” boiler for water heating - not a ‘combination’ air/water heater. Installation and Operating instructions for Truma appliances can be viewed/ownloaded from here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/index_gb.html and the Operating Instructions for a 2002 boiler are likely to be these https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70000_65000.pdf Filling the water boiler is briefly covered on Page 3. As Tom is new to the motorcaravanning game, it would be well worth him obtaining a copy of John Wickersham’s book “The Motorcaravan Manual” https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcaravan-Manual-Choosing-Using-Maintaining-x/dp/1844250474 Even one of the earlier publications would provide invaluable technical background and Tom might find that a local library might have a copy or could get one if asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom1946 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 Hi Brian, thank you so much for your very detailed and easy to follow description of how the water system operates, I'm very grateful. Our boiler or 'kettle' lives on the drivers side under the bed so I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can find a drain valve. We don't know how long the water has been in the tank when we bought it 2 weeks ago so it's probably a good idea to drain the system down and refill with clean water. So the blown air system works without the need for water? Again I don't know where the bits are for that to check it. I'm going in search of a manual for that next *-) I have much to learn so any advice to help would be very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-05-12 6:54 PM Brian I suspect that you are right in thinking that Tom owns an Autocruise “Starfire” (photo of example attached) but I believe that a 2002 version will have a Truma “S” ‘fire' for air heating and a separate 10-litre-capacity “Ultrastore” boiler for water heating - not a ‘combination’ air/water heater. Installation and Operating instructions for Truma appliances can be viewed/ownloaded from here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/index_gb.html and the Operating Instructions for a 2002 boiler are likely to be these https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70000_65000.pdf Filling the water boiler is briefly covered on Page 3. As Tom is new to the motorcaravanning game, it would be well worth him obtaining a copy of John Wickersham’s book “The Motorcaravan Manual” https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcaravan-Manual-Choosing-Using-Maintaining-x/dp/1844250474 Even one of the earlier publications would provide invaluable technical background and Tom might find that a local library might have a copy or could get one if asked. It was Tom's reference to blown air heating that led me to conclude he had a Truma Combi. I have no personal experience of the Truma convectors, but I see from your link that the S fires have an air circulation fan. I assume this is what Tom was referring to. One lives and learns! Tom, please take special note of Truma's warning not to operate the Ultrastore without water in it. My comments that this is possible refer only to the Combi type Truma heaters. Otherwise, the general principle I described for filling should be fine. I have always found it preferable to purge air from the cold water side before doing so for the hot water side, and can see no reason why this should not be equally relevant for systems based on the Ultrastore. I agree with Derek's suggestion that you get a copy of Joh Wickersham's Motorcaravan Manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom1946 Posted May 13, 2017 Author Share Posted May 13, 2017 You guys are a real mine of information! Thanks so much. Yes that is exactly what we have, in that colour too. The two switch panels on the wall behind the driver are a Trumatic E for the water with an on/off, and a Truma Ultrastore with a 3 way switch for heating. I'll take some pics of it all when it gets light so we're on the same page. I've just turned 70 so apologies if I seem a bit slow (lol) Plenty to be getting on with here so I'll check out the references you've posted, I have lots of questions so we can just get away for a night or two. I've also researched the engine and there are a couple of minor problems there, It smoked when cold and was hard to start so I changed the glow plugs and it's fine now. My speedo doesn't work either but the 'dealer' said he'd sort that out, yeah right. cheers guys. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 tom1946 - 2017-05-13 5:32 AM ...The two switch panels on the wall behind the driver are a Trumatic E for the water with an on/off, and a Truma Ultrastore with a 3 way switch for heating. I'll take some pics of it all when it gets light so we're on the same page... Tom. Pictures would be helpful (you’ll need to keep each of them to below 100KB in size to be able to attach them to your posting). The switch-panel marked “Trumatic E” will relate to your Starfire’s blown-air-heating. There are two different designs of Trumatic E panel (old and newer) and I’ve attached photos of both, with the older version being the uppermost photo. Trumatc “E” appliances are simple blown-air heaters (with a ‘ventilation’ capability) and are listed here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/trumatic_e_gb/trumatic_e_gb.html They are quite compact and, consequently, can be installed in a seat-locker, in a wardrobe-base, even beneath a cab-seat. I’m guessing that your Starfire will have an E-2400 model. https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/39050_75000.pdf The “Ultrastore” switch-panel relates to a Truma water-boiler of the type shown here https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70000_94600.pdf Truma water-boilers come in gas-only or gas/230V format. It is commonplace for UK-built motorhomes to have the gas/230V version, in which case either an additional Truma 230V control-switch will have been fitted, or (more probably perhaps) there will be a common-or-garden domestic On/Off switch somewhere to control the boiler’s 230V operation. On-line photos suggest that your Starfire will have an electrically-operated Thetford C200 ‘swivel-bowl’ toilet, with the toilet-cassette accessed through the motorhome’s rear wall. The water for flushing the toilet may be held in a water-tank integrated into the toilet itself (common practice on UK-built motorhomes) or be supplied from the main fresh-water tank. Hopefully the dealer showed you how the toillet worked, but there is plenty of downloadable ‘stuff’ on-line about Thetford products if you haven’t got toilet-related documentation. I think the fridge will be a reasonably-sized Dometic model and - once again - if you can identify which one you have (there’s normally a label inside) you should be able to download a handbook. I don’t know if you’ve managed to obtain an Autocruise Owner Handbook for your Starfire, but if not a contemporary handbook from another manufacturer should be helpful and you could pick out the parts that apply to your motorhome and ignore the parts that do not. For example https://orbit.brightbox.com/v1/acc-jqzwj/Swift-Group/handbooks/pdfs/000/000/033/original/1042554_MH_Owners_Hbook_2001.pdf?1472743484 It would be worth you checking the age of the tyres (there will be a date-code on their side-wall) and the pressure they have been inflated to. Also that the starter and leisure batteries are firmly and ‘cleanly’ connected and (if the battery design allows it) that the batteries’ electrolyte-level is OK. A vehicle with a clearly inoperative speedometer will fail the UK MOT test (Section 6.7 here) https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/611019/mot-inspection-manual-classes-3-4-5-and-7.pdf and driving a vehicle with a non-functioning speedometer is a motoring offence. http://www.motordefenceteam.co.uk/offence-guide/faulty-speedo.htm https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q601.htm There are insurance-related implications driving a vehicle that has a duff speedometer and the repair may prove expensive. (If it had been so simple and cheap to fix the speedometer problem, why did the dealer not do it before selling the motorhome?) The dealer should be well aware that the Starfire should not have been sold to you with a non-working speedometer, so insist that the dealer fixes it or agrees to refund the cost if you have the repair carried out locally to you. ("I've just turned 70...” - that’s young on this forum ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom1946 Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 Hi again, I've taken some pics of our van, here is our heating and water panels: http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Peasmold/IMG_1377_zps1ayrsl0k.jpg This is our main panel: http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Peasmold/IMG_1382_zpsyxkvqu8c.jpg On the floor next to the 'kettle' is what looks like a drain that goes through the floor and something else with wires coming off it, (technical term) does that drain go straight down through the floor? http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Peasmold/IMG_1381_zpsxadqvmb1.jpg Das boiler: http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Peasmold/IMG_1378_zpslxqbcb7d.jpg finally the leisure battery on the other side. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x73/Peasmold/IMG_1388_zpskmbt4a7o.jpg I was going to drain the fresh water tank as I don't know how old the water is, where do I do that please? Also the glass lid won't stay up on the hob, any ideas? Thank you very much for your patience. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Tom, some of these things would be easier explained in person, in your van, and the hob lid sounds like a defect that needs repair. Rather then struggling with manuals as your only source of information, have you considered a trip back to the dealer who sold you the van, and getting him to run over your queries with you actually in the van, so that he can show you how/where these items are, and how they work? I think the hob spring hinge may have failed, and that is the reason the lid won't stay up. That means you can't use the hob, so they need to do a job on that in nay case, and I think that probably means removal of the hob, so not really a DIY job. So, several birds with one stone? (Apologies to all you bird lovers, it's only a colloquial expression - I'm not advocating mass extinctions! :-D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Good photos... Regarding your 3rd photo, I’m pretty sure the “something else with wires coming off it” is a Whale In-Line Pressure Switch https://www.whalepumps.com/rv/siteFiles/resources/docs/resource-library/WhaleAdjustingyourpressureswitchb.pdf that will turn your motorhome’s water-pump on and off according to the pressure within the water system. (If the water system is currently functioning OK, leave the Switch alone!) The drain-tap alongside the Pressure Switch may drain the motorhome’s fresh-water tank if the tank is inboard, or it may just drain the water boiler. If the fresh-water tank is outboard (ie. beneath the motorhome’s floor) the drain-tap is probably just for the boiler. It’s more normal to have a drain-tap for the boiler closer to the boiler itself than the one in your photo, so look for a 2nd drain-tap next to the boiler. If you plan to drain the fresh-water tank, fill the tank up and then open any taps that look like they might drain the tank. If in doubt, experiment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom1946 Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 Thanks for your replies, It's pointless asking the people we bought it from as they seem to know as much about motorhomes as I know about the treasure of the Incas, ie' nothing much. I've decided to make my own way and call in a professional as required. When it stops raining I'll get underneath and find the various drain taps. Re the hob lid, I'm going to find a swivel clip and fix it to the wall behind the hob, that should hold it.... cheers, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.