keninpalamos Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I'm looking to get a 100 watt mono crystal semi flexible solar panel for a small camper that I intend to bond to the fibreglass pop top roof using .Sikaflex probably. The starter and Aux batteries are wet sealed type fitted under the seats of a Mercedes Vito diesel(1998) Autosleeper Montana. It will be used mainly in the uk during the summer and stored inside with some day light during the winter. The engine always starts first time even when left standing for six months. This is a old style diesel with no ECU just an inline pump and pressure operated injectors with no electronics. What solar regulator would you advise? Aimed at Allen really. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 After a protracted discussion on here and taking opinion from quite a few sources, I decided on the Votronic MPP165 that Alan usually recommends. Have also ordered the Solar computer and temperature sensor from the contact he recommends on his website - to get her with the correct leads to fit to the Schaudt Electrobloc system on our van. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Hi, I've got a PV Logic Solar Charge Controller which is brand new still wrapped up in it's box which I bought some time ago. But the panel I eventually had fitted came with it's own charge controller so the garage that sorted the panel fitted that on The front of the box says, 12v/24v automatic recognition on both battery and solar panel connections. Unique single or duel battery charging functions. Efficient series PWM charging. Charging and status LEDs. Reverse current protection. I see you're in Uffington, we're in Bourne so not a million miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 May I suggest you research your options on a flexible panel carefully before you fit one? They are generally not Glass, but 'plastic' because Glass tends not to flex too well. I have not yet seen a 'Glass copy plastic' that doesn't yellow/degrade after a few years. Imagine what that will do to the transmission of Light, and so the power output? If you do fit one maybe think of it as a 'disposable' Panel to be replaced when the Solar gain drops, so maybe think of a way of a temporary fixing. Not gluing it with Aircraft adhesive? For a Solar regulator, we have always advocated a dual battery version, not just to keep the Starter battery charged, but because it might be a useful safety 'outlet'. 3 batteries are going to handle an 'overcharge' better than 2. Or you can use it to maintain a completely separate battery bank. While your Starter battery might always start the engine, that doesn't mean the battery hasn't discharged right down as a modern battery may start an engine when more than 50% discharged. Obviously a battery left semi discharged for any length of time isn't good. One of the reasons we don't like the Battery Master way of 'keeping the Starter battery charged' is because the Battery Master may only begin taking power from the Habitation battery when the Starter battery is 0.7v below it's fully charged level. That is a heavily discharged battery. If the battery is in good condition it will still start the engine so people don't realise what damage is being done. MPPT regulators can be 25% more efficient in low light conditions, like under a Glass roof? 3 years ago, good ones cost around £150, but now very affordable. But what separates the best from the worst is the Float charging voltages. Victron and Exide say they should be less than 13.4v. Not the 13.8v 'trickle' of most pre 2016 regulators that can shorten a batteries life quite dramatically. The worst Solar Regulators can Float/maintenance/trickle a battery bank at 14.4v!! Conversely some have a max charge of only 13.8v, so wasting Solar charge. David is right, we do like the Votronic, it is only £69, has dual battery, MPPT high charge rate when needed, 13.3v 'trickle' when it isn't. The Votronic is a proper Motorhome specific regulator. We don't do Solar parts any more, but on our Solar webpage you will find details of a New Zealand or Aussie seller who buys these things by the Pallet full (lucky enough to have a bit more Sun down there) so he is the cheapest supplier we have found. As David says at £69 for the MPPT 165 ( including postage) it beats almost every other supplier. He also seems to know one Onion from another. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 Thank you for all your replies and indeed offers. I think I will go with Allens advice on the Voltronic. As for the degradation of plastic flexible panels I don't have much choice as the van is a pop top and I'm loathed to add any weight to the roof at all, plus it is my every day transport and toy and having thrown an awful lot of time, money and effort at it to get it in show condition plus, I feel a sticky out solar panel on the roof how ever well fitted won't add to its looks so to speak. I wil take your advice on fitting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 When I mounted a flexible on our old VW I used 'double sided bitumen pads' I'll call it that for want of a better description. Came from a local aquatics supplier, was about 1/8" thick and about 3" wide, brought by the metre, cut it into the pads. It was my intention to 'cheese wire' the panel off if needed, it would leave a mess, but nothing that couldn't be sorted with a bit of elbow grease, although I should note in over a decade of use showed little if any drop off in performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I would 'blob and bead' if using Sika - Just a few blobs, and then bead around the outside for a cosmetic finish. It will be easier to remove when necessary, but also help dissipate some of the heat. This is a method I use in the marine industry, for certain applications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Just ordered the Votronic duo 250 from the New Zealand seller. I like the fact it only self consumes 6ma, the other one I was considering was only quoted as less than 50ma And wouldn't charge the starter battery. I'm going solar so we don't have to pay for EHU, the fridge is 3way and uses refillable LPG, everything else 230v will use our 475w Victron pure sine wave inverter plugged into the EHU socket (with van charger off of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Charles, that is a good point on the current taken out of the battery when the Sun goes down. In Winter when the 'night' is so long and the Solar day is so short, the power taken out of the battery by some of the budget Solar Regulators can be almost as great as the power they put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Allan what circuit is the 20 amp fuse in that's plugged into the front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I think the fuse protects the output to the habitation battery, so don't forget to add a small fuse to the Starter battery circuit, which I think only gets an amp or two 'trickle' charge? I have had a PM and two emails today on the subject of using the Votronic Solar regulators to replace an existing LR1218 installation. So if I may, can I add one of my replies below : "Hello, yes the Votronic can be used to replace the Schaudt LR1218 or LRM 1218. It is Schaudt compatible and has the necessary Schaudt format Data output for the EBL 1001, 101, 220, 226, etc. It claims to use all the existing LR 1218 cabling but has screw down connectors, not Spade type, so these need minor adaptation. Not sure about the data cable compatibility, best ordering the Votronic data cable. As to whether it is worth purchasing the Votronic temperature compensation probe, would depend on the power of the array. If the array was outputting 40 amps then that sort of power has the potential to charge the battery bank faster when the batteries are very cold. The temperature probe may also help prevent damage when the battery temperatures are high. If the array size is only about 10 amps then you need to decide it's value?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I grudgingly ordered the temperature probe with it. When it comes I'll measure the resistance and temperature and see if it's a standard 100k ohm one or whatever. If it's a standard thermistor you can get them for pence on eBay. Edit: don't hold your breath though, I'm in Spain for about 4 weeks yet B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 globebuster - 2017-05-24 10:56 AM I would 'blob and bead' if using Sika - Just a few blobs, and then bead around the outside for a cosmetic finish. It will be easier to remove when necessary, but also help dissipate some of the heat. This is a method I use in the marine industry, for certain applications yes, that's what I had in mind. The 'van is only used for 5 at the most 6 months a year then stored inside, so I think a plastic panel should be good for 10 years. Me, I'm not so sure :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Just had a letter from customs wanting 42 quid for the import of the Votronic controller from New Zealand! ROBBING B*@#$%$S!!.... :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Oh dear, I suspect I'min for the same unpleaant surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I thought import duty was only applied above £100? What is the claim for £42 made up from, is it all import duty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 it will be admin and duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 All I've been told is it's a customs charge. I arranged for it to be sent to my mother's house as I'm in Spain. Big sis is sorting it for me. I'll see the letter when I get back in 3 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Lawton Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Purchased the Votronic regulator from German firm offgridtec.com. A bit more expensive but no problems with customs charges! Also supply the EBL 2007 cable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 My Voltronic Regulator arrived from New Zealand today - with a customs/Handling charge of £24 odd, which anyone else buying from there should factor in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-06-03 9:40 PM I thought import duty was only applied above £100? What is the claim for £42 made up from, is it all import duty? Had to wait a couple of weeks for my order from New Zealand as he didn't have the EBL cable in stock but just had my letter for the customs charge - £40.58p - although this was for the total package I ordered - Votronic 165, Votronic solar computer, mounting box for same, temperature sensor and EBL cable. The charge is made up,of: Custome Duty - £3.29 Import VAT - £29.29 Clearance Fee - £8 The order itself came to £161 including delivery which was a very good price but the added £40 brings it more inline with prices on Amazon or from Germany. As StuartO says - if ordering take into account the customs charge which does seem to vary. Roll on a trading agreement with New Zealand! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 David, the supplier lists the Votronic MPPT 165 Regulator on it's own as £69 incl delivery. The jump up to £161 that you paid is big. That obviously also has a big impact on the import charges. Is it possible to list the individual items you bought so I can update the website Solar page with better info on costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-06-11 7:39 PM David, the supplier lists the Votronic MPPT 165 Regulator on it's own as £69 incl delivery. The jump up to £161 that you paid is big. That obviously also has a big impact on the import charges. Is it possible to list the individual items you bought so I can update the website Solar page with better info on costs? Hi Allan, The order was for: Votronic duo 165MPPT controller Votronic solar computer (part number 1250) Housing for above (part number 2014) Temperature sensor (part number 2001) Schaudt compatible cable (part number 2007) The overall price of £161.03 was the exchange rate at the beginning of the month and the cost in AD was 267.30. The price was very good before the customs/import charge so there is no question of Xsolar's pricing - just a warning to remember to think about the additional duty. Although is difficult to take into account as, it appears, to vary considerably. Charles bought the Votronic 250 with a temperature sensor and his charge was £42 - not sure what StuartO bought but his charge was £24. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 And I bought a Votronic Regulator 165 (the 10 amp one) and a wiring kit to connect to a Schaudt EBL, which cost a total of £83 inc postage. I then had to pay £24 to the Post Office for customs/handling. From experience buying motorcycle stuff from abroad, if the purchase priceis less than £25 they don't bother charging customs, so it comes to you without delay or charge. Any more than that and you pay! The handling charge of £8 is a flat rate, so if you buy something for £26, you still pay £8 handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 My £42 charge was just for the Votronic 250 controller from New Zealand, I got the temperature sensor from Germany and there was no customs charge for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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