peterjl Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi I changed to a new Hobby Based on Ford Tranny in May and I am planning to visit the Alps late this month. I have been looking at snowchains and my last search turned up a new link. When i put in my wheel size it put an alert up to check the vehicle manual - sure enough the Ford Manual says that, for front wheel drive you should change tyres on front wheels from 215/75 16 to 195/75 16. This was the only site to say this (plus it was more expensivce than the others). I rang the site i had originally planned on buying from and they said that i should measure clearance round wheels at full lock and if it was 15 to 17mm that was ok. I have measured and gap is more than 15mm and less than 20mm - its not easy to get an accurate mearsurement as there are severall possible points including the shock absorbers. This leaves me with 2 questions:- 1)Do i trust a salesman - the cynic in me says no and that Ford put in the change for a reason - i am warey of having different sized tyres front and rear but manual indicates that vehicle is registered for that configuration. (god nows what the tyre pressures would be) 2)If i change what tyres do i change to - my local transit dealer says he has commercial tyres for £80 but Brownhills say i need campervan tyres and they can get michelin for £120. and a supplemantary question - would it damage the tyres to change back and forth every year? So does anybody have experience of snowchains and transits (2000 - 2006 shape) who can give me some guidance. Any thoughts gratefully accepted Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hello Peter, Have come across this before with the Transit (It probably applies to other make/models as well) and the Ford information in the Handbook. The problem of trying to measure clearance on a stationary vehicle is that you have to take account of weight but also suspension movement as well. While there may well be sufficient clearance while stationary and even under normal running this may well change under heavy braking or cornering weight transfer effect on the suspension. May I suggest for peace of mind you put this question directly to Ford for an answer. I know that Derek Uzzell has a good knowledge of matters Transit and will probably reply to your question. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Michelin, in company with a firm called Impex, market a synthetic mesh fitted with galvanised studs in France.Don't know about UK availability, but this is claimed durable, light, efficient and quick and easy to fit. It goes over the tyre like a sock and tightens with belts towards the wheel centre. It looks very thin, so shouldn't cause any clearance problems, provided it is suitable for 'van use. Clearly there are versions intended for use on cars, I do not know if there are versions suitable for heavier vehicles. The effect is claimed to be akin to studded tyres, and unlike chains, it can be used - within reason - on snow and ice free roads.Might be worth a hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I was led to believe that you can not use chains on FWD Fords? Have to use Spike spiders or Go Claws. http://www.spike-spider.com/ http://www.flextrax.com/aboutus.html also ... http://www.roofbox.co.uk/autosock/ There has been some talk on this subject before, have a look through older threads. I have ordered a new ford based Euramobil. Will be interested to see how you get on. What does your dealer say on subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi My understanding is that, for some alpine conditions, the police insist on snow chains of an approved type and i am not sure the "socks" come into this categaory. The manual makes it clear FWD trannys can use snow chains but only with smaller tyres. Not sure about the new trannt post 2006. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi Peter, I have a hymervan on a fwd transit with 215/75/16 tyres and the information is clear in the Transit manual (page 143), if you want to fit chains then you have to get narrower tyres. If you intend to visit alpine countries on regular basis then this is an ideal time to consider purchasing winter tyres for this axle as this is starting to become a requirement in some alpine countries (Not France) when roads are affected by snow or ice. I have gone down this route, my van is fitted with continental vanco's and they also manufacture vanco winters in the narrower size (195/75/16), you also need to check that the load index on the narrower tyres are within your front axle limit. The narrower vanco winters have a load index of 105 (925kg per tyre) and my front axle limit is 1665kg so they are well within tolerance but something you need to be aware of. If you have michelins then they also do a winter version of the Agilis. As I already had snowchains from a previous boxer van and they would fit the reduced sized tyres on the Transit this was the best option for me. The alternative to chains stated in the previous post may be an option for you as long as none of the fittings interfere with the gap between the sidewall and the suspension strut (Spikes spiders look good in this respect). You also need to satisfy yourself that they are accepted as a proper alternative to chains in the countries that you intend to visit, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the autosock is not. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Peterjl Please may I butt in ?..... Brian these snow mesh things can I buy them for my daughter whom travels 5 in the morning down the country ice lanes ? what I mean is can you drive 100 miles a day on them or do you only use for short distance on snow ? Obviously worried about her that early in the morning . If not is there anything out there that people can put on just a normal car and drive with in bad ice weather . any suggestions anyone please Sorry hope ok to be on your thread Just out of interest have just purchased snow chains for same size as you 215/75/16 from konig on the michelin camping tyres thanks to Don / Brian would of been stuck without them instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hi Many Thanks PeeJay - thats really helpfull. My front axle is also 1665kg so I will try and source some of the vanco's winter narrower tyres Just to clarify - should these be changed back in the summer + i am conscious this will give me different tyres front and rear but only a spare tyre for the rear!! any thoughts anyone? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 peterjl - 2007-01-03 7:53 AM Just to clarify - should these be changed back in the summer + i am conscious this will give me different tyres front and rear but only a spare tyre for the rear!! any thoughts anyone? Peter Hello Peter, It depends on your annual mileage, where and the mix between winter and summer. The Winter tyres would not really be suitable for use in the hotter countries and large summer mileages. With mixed size you would need either to carry a spare for each size/type or consider using one of the tyre puncture protection fluids like Protec or Ultraseal. The tyre manufacturers will almost certainly recommend using a full set of winter tyres for braking and steering stability. I would suggest that you speak to Continental or Michelin Technical Departments for advice, they are both very helpfull and willing to put their recommnedations in writing. If you intend to do high winter mileages in the colder countries it would probably be worthwhile changing to a full set of winter tyres (remember wheel sizes as well) and swapping to the original wheels/tyres for non winter use. Apart from the extra cost and storage requirements it would be easier to carry out full wheel swaps than having to get the tyres changed over twice per year. At the end of the day I suppose it depends on how you intend to use the vehicle and whether you consider the cost worthwhile. Hope this is of some help. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Pardon my ignorance, but by winter tyre do you mean studded tyres? If you decide to go this way surely its more sensible to have spare wheels as well with your winter tyres which you could then change yourself when necessary. The above are an expensive hassle for a few weeks in the snow when you can use something like the spike Spider? Different of course if away for months in Scandinavia etc… is it only the FWD ford that has problems with chains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandyAndy Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I was just wondering the same as Judge as to whether this applied to the RWD new Transits, I think we are going to have problems with the rear wheels being twins, is this true. Would like to add with great excitement that we got a call today to say our van was on the docks at Grimsby and we will be able to collect it a month early, ie 10th of Feb. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I have driven in Scandanavia on compacted snow covered roads without any problems whatsoever. The ace here was studded tyres, not chains. The studs are removeable but most Scandinavians have one set of tyres for winter and another set for other times. If you intend to spend any significant time in these areas then you should consider using the correct tyres. In some countries they are mandatory. 70 MPH on compacted snow was not uncommon, even the brakes worked! Re FWD and chains I guess the problem is not just the clearance but the additional clearance required when the wheels spin and the chain flies off the surface of the tyre. I would expect a loud metalic rattle to be associated with wheel spin! If you go the chain route I suggest you heed Fords advice. Good luck We would like to know how you get on with your eventual choice. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hi Decision made - new tyres are due to be fitted Saturday and i am having Tyreons fitted to the front. Been thinking about these for a while and if the tyres are coming off anyway it seems like the right time. Re one of the earlier comments, the Ford FWD Tranny is only registered to have the smaller wheels on the Front axle - the ford instructions specifically says they should not be put on the back axle. Off to the alps in two weeks for about 12 days - if its all a success i will also try for a week late March/early april before the easter rush. I will look into spare wheels - that idea makes a lot of sense. Looks like i've just spent the money earmarked for cruise control!! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 This subject is a minefield. I have been told that front wheel drive Ford campers can not have snow chains as they clash with running gear and cause extensive damage if they fail, and they can fail. They can only be fitted to vehicles with thinner tyres (but thin tyres can not necessarily take weight of a camper) that is why it is being suggested by some to change tyres to winter ones. Personally I think this is crazy for a couple of weeks in the snow, different if away for long periods. But if you do go for this, surely easier and cheaper to have two sets of wheels (second-hand rims are cheap) which you can easily interchange yourself. Rather then the hassle and expense of getting tyres changed and balanced repeatedly? That is why spike spider are recommended by German dealers for FWD vehicles as the do not obstruct the inside edge of the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Hi From my research, with some help from MMM contributors, it seems the thinner tyres recommended by Ford are up to the job. The ones i'm going for have a load index of 107 which is 975kg per wheel - more than enough for my front axle max loading of 1665kg. I am looking into cost of an extra set of rims. You suggest second hand but i am unsure about that route - does this carry a risk if they have been involved in an incident? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Ebay may be a place to start or local commercial breakers. eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 michele - 2007-01-02 10:33 PM Peterjl Please may I butt in ?..... Brian these snow mesh things can I buy them for my daughter whom travels 5 in the morning down the country ice lanes ? what I mean is can you drive 100 miles a day on them or do you only use for short distance on snow ? Obviously worried about her that early in the morning . If not is there anything out there that people can put on just a normal car and drive with in bad ice weather . any suggestions anyone please Sorry hope ok to be on your thread Just out of interest have just purchased snow chains for same size as you 215/75/16 from konig on the michelin camping tyres thanks to Don / Brian would of been stuck without them instantly. MicheleSorry, I just know they exist and can be bought in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 peejay - 2007-01-02 10:30 PM Hi Peter, I have a hymervan on a fwd transit with 215/75/16 tyres and the information is clear in the Transit manual (page 143), if you want to fit chains then you have to get narrower tyres. If you intend to visit alpine countries on regular basis then this is an ideal time to consider purchasing winter tyres for this axle as this is starting to become a requirement in some alpine countries (Not France) when roads are affected by snow or ice. I have gone down this route, my van is fitted with continental vanco's and they also manufacture vanco winters in the narrower size (195/75/16), you also need to check that the load index on the narrower tyres are within your front axle limit. The narrower vanco winters have a load index of 105 (925kg per tyre) and my front axle limit is 1665kg so they are well within tolerance but something you need to be aware of. If you have michelins then they also do a winter version of the Agilis. As I already had snowchains from a previous boxer van and they would fit the reduced sized tyres on the Transit this was the best option for me. The alternative to chains stated in the previous post may be an option for you as long as none of the fittings interfere with the gap between the sidewall and the suspension strut (Spikes spiders look good in this respect). You also need to satisfy yourself that they are accepted as a proper alternative to chains in the countries that you intend to visit, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the autosock is not. pete However, if you have a spare wheel, you now can't fit it to the front wheels, because tyres on the same axle muct match! I presume you must therefore carry one of those instant repair/inflation kits, or two spares: one shod with each type of tyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Absolutely correct Brian. I have a tin of tyre sealant, just in case that 'worst case scenario' happens! Following on from Judgementals comments - quote - "Personally I think this is crazy for a couple of weeks in the snow" - unquote. The tyres don't just need to be used for your 2 week holiday, they can stay on the van for the whole winter period, whatever country you're in, greatly improving grip and traction in adverse conditions. You will then share the wear more beneficially between the two sets. pete. ps - Just as an aside, I was at Brownhills today and had a quick look at the new/facelifted Hymervan and they have replaced the area where the spare was in the garage with a pull out cupboard/step and consequently, as far as I can see, a spare is no longer fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 peejay - 2007-01-05 11:33 AM ps - Just as an aside, I was at Brownhills today and had a quick look at the new/facelifted Hymervan and they have replaced the area where the spare was in the garage with a pull out cupboard/step and consequently, as far as I can see, a spare is no longer fitted. PeteApologies for going off topic, but on your last point, perhaps this is not so much of a loss. I discounted the Hymer van partially because of the spare wheel location. Just how it was supposed to be retrieved from a laden "garage", on a muddy roadside, on a wet night, I couldn't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Just how it was supposed to be retrieved from a laden "garage", on a muddy roadside, on a wet night, I couldn't understand. Take your point Brian but on the plus side, its a lot easier than retrieving it from deep underneath the van and exposed to the elements like on many other conversions. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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