Trev23 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Okay, so after posting a question about an Elddis and getting replies saying check for damp, I read a few posts and I'm quickly changing my mnd, I have a few questions. Are all Elddis vans affected? How can they sell them if rot is such a problem? What about Swift, do they have damp issues, aren't they made by the same company? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Damp is a problem that affected numerous motorhomes including those produced by Elddis and Swift. Not all buyers are affected and some motorhomes were fixed and carried on giving good service. British motorhomes tend to be bought on showroom appeal and accessories fitted rather than design and build. The primary cause of damp was British firms using wood in their construction and a form of 'styrene insulation' that was not water resistant. Once water got in, rot was inevitable. That's a generalised view and as fair as I can be. Swift and Elddis are separate companies. Whatever van you buy, you will need a damp check. There are vans that are not riddled with damp. I started motorhoming in 1995. My first two new vans were made by Swift and both had damp problems fixed under warranty. In 2000 I bought my first of three new German motorhomes and none of these have suffered from damp. Apart from better design and build, and a much higher price and lower showroom appeal, these three vans had closed-pore polyurethane foam walls clad in aluminium meaning that exterior parts are impervious to water. Hymer call its approach 'PUAL' - Poly Urethane ALuminium. Elddis and Swift have changed their design and production to reduce the risk of damp. If the 120 suited you, have a look at a small AutoSleeper motorhome which have a good reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Our Elddis is the solid construction type introduced in 2013. So far so good for the shell, just minor assembly and 3rd party manufacturer problems so far. The fact that the van was 14k cheaper than the autotrail (and probably the German ones) we liked tipped the scale for us. It's got a bigger payload too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 ELdiss SOLID construction is not much better, they glue them together now but still use untreated softwood and have just as many damp problems. John (Brock) sums it up well, the same money you can buy a new Eldiss for would be much better spent on a 5 or 6 year old Hymer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Trev, We've not gone for an Elddis ourselves but I can see why so many people go for them; the value for money aspect alone is probably the deal winner for most. It doesn't matter how you look at it but the act of buying 'any' new motorhome is a bloody expensive job - storage, maintenance, insurance, fuel, repairs, site and ferry fees, habitation checks, the list goes on and on and on.............. I've often heard people say that "you get what you pay for" but in that case I reckon the folk that buy an Elddis brand are doing rather better over those who buy an extravagantly overpriced German flash-wagon. You need to understand your budget and your actual requirement and then choose something that fits both - simples! There are people on here (and other forums) that will spend a whole load of cash (liquid or debt) on buying an expensive van because of image alone. Some people will criticise me for saying this but IMO motorhome ownership is no different to car ownership, i.e. someone always wants something more upmarket than the next bloke; let's call it a status and snobby-thing. Personally speaking I think you should go for an Elddis if that's what ticks your requirements and your budget. There are thousands of happy Elddis owners out there but very few of them come forward to say they are happy because you'll get some Hymer owner come along and say "but I've got a Hymer blah blah blah". At the end of the day Trev, which is the worst statistic: 5 broken Hymers from a total of 100 sold or 50 reported broken Elddis vans from 1000 sold. More sales, more reported issues etc. I will now await the criticsm from the Hymer and posh van owners but am I bothered ;-) Cheers, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Replies like Lennies are biased nonsense, he is still living in the distant past. Companies like Elddis and Swift did suffer from some damp in the distant past but both now give ten year warrenties against it, how long do you think they would last if vans suffered from damp. Sure you get the occasional complaint but most vans sold in the UK come from these companies so the amount of problems will reflect that. Companies like Hymer sell a tiny handfull in the UK so less complaints, in the UK at least. People who have bought overpriced German vans will defend them, fair enough, but they do tend to live in a period where anything German was considered the best, probably about ten years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 In 1976 Hymer introduced the PUAL (Poly Urethane ALuminium) method of making sandwich-construction bodypanels for their coachbuilt motorhomes. Besides providing high levels of insulation, such panels - having no wood in them - are impervious to water ingress. If one took a sample of a 1000 Hymer motorhomes built over the last 30 years and a sample of 1000 Elddis motorhomes built over the same period, I’m confident that no forum-member with a reasonable knowledge of motorhomes would suggest that the Elddis vehicles would match the Hymers regarding long-term resistance to damage due to water-ingress. Elddis has historically used a bodypanel construction involving wood and still does. If water gets inside the panel, the wood rots - simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 rupert123 - 2017-07-21 9:50 AM Replies like Lennies are biased nonsense, he is still living in the distant past. Companies like Elddis and Swift did suffer from some damp in the distant past but both now give ten year warrenties against it, how long do you think they would last if vans suffered from damp. Sure you get the occasional complaint but most vans sold in the UK come from these companies so the amount of problems will reflect that. Companies like Hymer sell a tiny handfull in the UK so less complaints, in the UK at least. People who have bought overpriced German vans will defend them, fair enough, but they do tend to live in a period where anything German was considered the best, probably about ten years ago. Afraid it is you that is living in the past Henry, the Brit manufacturers may claim to have improved but they have not, if you search all the forums plenty of proof. Just on on rally last year I met one couple who had an 18 month old Autotrail they were fed up to the back teeth with if, it had been back to the factory twice for damp and needed to go again, dealer offered a palty part exchage I've never lost less than 5% a year on my Hymers. Another couple had just taken delivery of a Franki having had an Autotrail full of water, if you want to quote statistics that is 100% of Autotrail owners of Autotrails i've met who have had serious damp problems with brand new vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Well I am on my 3rd new Hymer the previous 2 I lost less than 5% a year on and I traded the last one, if I had spent half the money on Eldiss vans I would have been far worse off as I would have lost far more money. I don't know where Bop got his figures from but Hymer are the largest manufacturer in Europe Eldiss production is minuscule compared to Hymer. Hymers are not posh they are just a well made German Mid Range van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 lennyhb - 2017-07-21 10:16 AM I lost less than 5% a year on. Sometimes what people don't say tells you more than what they do. And what you are not saying is you bought them abroad before the pound crashed (lol) Hymers remind me of the 'Reassuringly Expensive' Stella Artois Adverts for the British market. Just across the channel it was the same price as the other brands because only the British were daft enough to pay a premium for it (lol) If 'you got what you pay for' there would be no such thing as a rip off, scam, or even overpriced goods :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong2 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 We have a elddis accordo 105.no damp issues.quality is very good for the money.this is our third elddis.no damp issues with any of the vans all vans have had habitation checks every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 lennyhb - 2017-07-21 10:16 AM Hymers are not posh they are just a well made German Mid Range van. Of course, Bop didn't accuse Hymers of being posh as he said 'Hymers and posh van owners' which tends to suggest that Hymers are not posh. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I see this thread is going off on the usual tangent....... Would I buy a British build van, probably not - but lets not get too passionate about which make is best. The new Solid vans still have structural issues, the old vans were constructed in a way that beggared belief! Whilst some more recent efforts from Britain have tried to address fundamental construction issues [and from my personal observations there were many] theoretical concepts still require those products to be manufactured correctly. Bop misses the point I think, if anything continental vans generally have less of the bling and more emphasis on decent structural design. Derek makes a fair comparison I think.. You also have to consider why Swift, Explorer and Bailey have introduced these new construction ideas - clearly because their earlier design and build techniques were so poor. Sadly, I've noted that some of these efforts at improving construction still have [again, in my opinion] some serious design flaws. I suggest when viewing any prospective purchase you start by viewing the underside, followed by the external fit and finish - only when these areas have passed scrutiny should you bother to open the door and look inside. It will be interesting to see how things move forward now Hymer have the Explorer group products. If you're going down the British van route - do so with caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev23 Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Thanks for the responses. As I'm a newbie to the world of motorhomes, budget is my main priority. If I do go for an Elddis I'll be sure and get on my back and look under the rear quarters to inspect the wood frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 John52 - 2017-07-21 10:29 AM lennyhb - 2017-07-21 10:16 AM I lost less than 5% a year on. Sometimes what people don't say tells you more than what they do. And what you are not saying is you bought them abroad before the pound crashed (lol) Hymers remind me of the 'Reassuringly Expensive' Stella Artois Adverts for the British market. Pound was 1.18 when I ordered and 1.16 when I paid didn't make much odds as I traded the last van so exchange rate had very little effect on the deal but I will admit to being £25k better off on the deal that I would have buying in the UK mainly due to trade in value abroad is so much better than the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 For a budget van, you could do a lot worse than a recent Roller Team van. Their EXPS construction technique is completely wood free & uses styrofoam insulation. The 2013 T-Line 670 I had was well made & recorded low single digit damp values on each of the 3 hab checks I had done while I owned it & I had no issues when I p/xed it at the point it required it's 4th check. Their "budget" bit seems to come mainly from using the basic version of appliances (Gas only heating, no ignitors on the hob) etc., and simple decor rather than skimping on the core shell construction or functionality. In many ways my Roller Team van had much better attention to detail regarding useabilty than the Chausson that I replaced it with. I'd have another - if they went back to a Continental-side hab door ! Nigel B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Some previous reports of major 'ingress on the "SoLid" built MHs... http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Damp-problems-in-Elddis-majestic-175/45964/ ...but being on 3-4 ? year old vans, some will probably just brush them off as being from "the distant past"? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 SoLiD is all smoke and mirrors. So you glue/bond the timber-edged panels together rather than screwing them. So what? Picture 1 shows a SoLiD seam in principle, picture 2 shows the reality during build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Sorry, I forgot to annotate the first picture prior to posting :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-07-21 9:51 AM In 1976 Hymer introduced the PUAL (Poly Urethane ALuminium) method of making sandwich-construction bodypanels for their coachbuilt motorhomes. Besides providing high levels of insulation, such panels - having no wood in them - are impervious to water ingress. If one took a sample of a 1000 Hymer motorhomes built over the last 30 years and a sample of 1000 Elddis motorhomes built over the same period, I’m confident that no forum-member with a reasonable knowledge of motorhomes would suggest that the Elddis vehicles would match the Hymers regarding long-term resistance to damage due to water-ingress. Elddis has historically used a bodypanel construction involving wood and still does. If water gets inside the panel, the wood rots - simples! What a nonsense attempt at comparison. We are talking today not thirty years ago, see what I mean about living in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 lennyhb - 2017-07-21 10:16 AM Well I am on my 3rd new Hymer the previous 2 I lost less than 5% a year on and I traded the last one, if I had spent half the money on Eldiss vans I would have been far worse off as I would have lost far more money. I don't know where Bop got his figures from but Hymer are the largest manufacturer in Europe Eldiss production is minuscule compared to Hymer. Hymers are not posh they are just a well made German Mid Range van. Well Lennie I am on my fifth UK built van, never had an Elddis I must admit, but never had any damp either and my loss per year matches yours, but not sure what this proves though. Hymer may be largest in euro land but small in the UK bet more complaints about Hymer in euroland than about Elddiss, what does this prove, nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 If you go for an Elddis you are still be buying a product with fundamental design and build issues. Why expose yourself to potential problems - existing or in the future? Perhaps a slightly older, but decent quality van is the answer, which will almost certainly hold its value better if you decide to trade up at some point... Whatever make you consider, still lay on your back and look underneath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong2 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I suggest you Google"problems with hymer motor homes"there not that good.when you consider how much dearer they are than elddis motorhomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 lennyhb - 2017-07-21 10:16 AM Well I am on my 3rd new Hymer the previous 2 I lost less than 5% a year on. lennyhb - 2017-07-21 4:08 PM Pound was 1.18 when I ordered and 1.16 when I paid . What - all 3 vans *-) A fair comprison is when they are all at UK price - then if people can go across the channel and buy a Hymer at a sensible price they can take that saving into consideration :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 lennyhb - 2017-07-21 9:00 AM still use untreated softwood Houses are still being built with untreated softwood. Timber doesn't need treating if its kept dry because the bugs that eat it are living things that cannot live without moisture. Many of the problems have been caused by damage or badly fitted accesories etc allowing water to leak into the structure - Foreign as well as British built vans. Steve928 - 2017-07-21 4:52 PM So you glue/bond the timber-edged panels together rather than screwing them. So what? ! Sometimes water ingress has been caused by the structure being pierced by screws, so eliminating the screws by using glue is very significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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