Deesider Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Our past four motorhomes have been on a Fiat base vehicle. We are considering a new mh on a Citroen base vehicle with an substantial increase for a Fiat option. Are Citroen base vehicles a cheap option and is the extra for a Fiat worth while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 ...the fundamental difference is the engine, which on the Citroen requires Adblue to meet Euro6 legislation, whereas the Fiat engines currently do not. OTOH, I believe the Citroen engines are still chain cam, which means avoidance of the cambelt replacement for the Fiat, should you own it long enough. The main thing I would be considering, however, is the Citroen dealership network, and the locations equipped to deal with commercials. Whilst we aren't exactly overrun with Fiat Commercial dealers, my understanding is that the Citroen network is rather more sparse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 They are basically the same badge engineered van made in the same Sevel factory in Italy. Go with the cheapest if you're happy with the equipment level. I had a Fiat car once, NEVER AGAIN! be thankful there is a version available without the dreaded F word on it ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Charles - 2017-09-13 5:24 AM I had a Fiat car once, NEVER AGAIN! From what I have heard; Fiat had a terrible reputation for rust, so took the decision to galvanise everything. Wheras Mercedes decided their products were over engineered so took the decision to concentrate on volume and profit. So now we see the incredible spectacle of Fiat vans outlasting Mercedes 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Robinhood - 2017-09-12 9:16 PM ...the fundamental difference is the engine, which on the Citroen requires Adblue to meet Euro6 legislation, whereas the Fiat engines currently do not. Do "we" see that as a negative point re Citroen? IMO I am at present far happier using Adblue rather than higher levels of EGR technology in any of its flavours having some very expensive EGR experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 The engine used in the Euro6 Peugeot and Citroen vehicles is new and an unknown quantity but it is based on a car engine that's been in use for some time. I suspect that it is much better than the (fundamentally) Ford engine that was in use prior to this. I would always expect that the core components of an engine designed from the outset as a commercial vehicle powerplant such as the Fiat 2.3 would always be a stronger long term proposition, but the core of the engine is no longer the focus of our attention.... The extra bits that are added in order to achieve lower emissions are the problem and with no exception these are designed to be used frequently and for long periods in order to function as intended. As inelegant and inconvenient as additives are; they do at least reduce the dependence on EGR (which clogs things up and runs hotter) and remove the need for a NOX trap which the Fiat uses and is a complete unknown at this point. So. We end this with a surprise, for most of you at least... For a motorhome application, given the options currently available, I would go for a PSA version of the Sevel vehicle rather than a Fiat. The chances are that the PSA motors will be more reliable and suffer less faults with the add-on emission bits that the Fiat cousins but there is one thing that bothers me and it is why for our applications, I am sticking with Fiat for now: There is, as many of you know, an excellent EOBD tool available for Fiat vehicles that costs remarkably little. There is currently NOTHING available other than Peugeot's own device that will get into a Boxer/Relay. I have been looking into this for a couple of months and have had direct contact with several manufacturers to find that the diagnostic market is not supporting Euro5 or Euro6 PSA engines. For me this is a problem. These are always difficult choices. At the moment i am bracing myself for having to pay a good deal more for a Fiat than i would for a PSA vehicle. For my business, i will have to do that but for a motorhome I would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Again these tools tells codes butt do not tell you what to do if you have black smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 euroserv - 2017-09-13 9:56 AM The engine used in the Euro6 Peugeot and Citroen vehicles is new and an unknown quantity but it is based on a car engine that's been in use for some time. I suspect that it is much better than the (fundamentally) Ford engine that was in use prior to this. I would always expect that the core components of an engine designed from the outset as a commercial vehicle powerplant such as the Fiat 2.3 would always be a stronger long term proposition, but the core of the engine is no longer the focus of our attention.... The extra bits that are added in order to achieve lower emissions are the problem and with no exception these are designed to be used frequently and for long periods in order to function as intended. As inelegant and inconvenient as additives are; they do at least reduce the dependence on EGR (which clogs things up and runs hotter) and remove the need for a NOX trap which the Fiat uses and is a complete unknown at this point. So. We end this with a surprise, for most of you at least... For a motorhome application, given the options currently available, I would go for a PSA version of the Sevel vehicle rather than a Fiat. The chances are that the PSA motors will be more reliable and suffer less faults with the add-on emission bits that the Fiat cousins but there is one thing that bothers me and it is why for our applications, I am sticking with Fiat for now: There is, as many of you know, an excellent EOBD tool available for Fiat vehicles that costs remarkably little. There is currently NOTHING available other than Peugeot's own device that will get into a Boxer/Relay. I have been looking into this for a couple of months and have had direct contact with several manufacturers to find that the diagnostic market is not supporting Euro5 or Euro6 PSA engines. For me this is a problem. These are always difficult choices. At the moment i am bracing myself for having to pay a good deal more for a Fiat than i would for a PSA vehicle. For my business, i will have to do that but for a motorhome I would not. Nick as you may recall I have had occasion to be grateful to you regarding issues with with my 2012 Euro 5 Citroen. I took delivery of a Euro 6 PSA Engined Citroen Relay in March and have now covered 3500 miles in it. A very short distance in commercial vehicle terms (our big European trip this year was postponed) but enough to form some impression of the differences between the old "Ford" engine and the new PSA engine. The clutch is definitely lighter and the mileage is slightly better perhaps 2-3 mpg better but this figure will no doubt improve further as the engine loosens up. On paper the engine has more torque than its Ford predecessor but for now it feels like it has less "grunt" and it seems to need more down changes. The gearbox doesn't like the change for fifth to sixth to be snatched. You need to be smooth or it doesn't engage. Again these may well change when the engine/gearbox loosens up. I don't see much difference in engine noise levels but the engine is certainly smooth at higher revs. I haven't really worked the van much at the top end (in Germany the old van would cruise all day long at well over 80). The Adblue use and filling over these initial miles has been unproblematic and in line with expectations (although it is not easy to work out exactly how much adblue is used). The physical dimensions of the engine are smaller and I think it is lighter (offset by the Adblue tank and its ancillaries). Overall I am optimistic that this will be a good engine but for now it doesn't FEEL as robust as the Puma. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Robinhood - 2017-09-12 9:16 PM ...I believe the Citroen engines are still chain cam, which means avoidance of the cambelt replacement for the Fiat, should you own it long enough. I think the only ‘chain cam’ powerplants used in current chassis suitable for conversion into large-ish motorhomes are the units fitted to Mercedes Sprinters. The 2.0litre BlueHDI motors fitted to the Euro-6 Peugeot Boxer and Citroen Relay/Jumper have a timing-belt, as do the 2.0litre EcoBlue motors fitted to Euro-6 Transits and Transit Customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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