Alikelystory Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 We have just bought a new Bailey Autograph 79-4 Motorhome and are considering having an hydraulic levelling system fitted. Have any of the forum members got any personal experience of any of the brands available? Also was it the best money you have spent or an expensive useless gadget? We would really appreciate your feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksob Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Clearly it’s not something you “need” but if you have the payload and the means to buy them they will become one of your absolute necessities!! We have the E&P levellers, fitted by Mick at SAP, generally acknowledged to be the expert in the uk, though there are a small number of other stockists. We use ours all the time, it’s not just that they make you level, it’s that the van is absolutely rock steady, no matter what. Linked with VB air, just fabulous, but not cheap! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Forgive me for asking Bill, but we are considering full air and levelling on our new (to be ordered) 8.2m baby. The manufacturer is asking a LOT of money for supply and fit, so is it better to have it as an after fit or fitted on order. How much was your set up so I can make a comparison. The manufacturer is fitting the same makes as yours. Thanks, Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Ainsley When you mentioned your ‘factory-fit or retrofit’ dilemma in your earlier posting http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Niesmann-Bischdoff-or-Morello-which-is-best-/47837/ I did wonder how the cost of retrofitting a full-air suspension system and a hydraulic levelling-jack system could be sufficiently cheaper than fitting both systems when the motorhome was being built for you to be considering the retrofit approach. I assume you eventually settled on a Morelo and, if you specified the suspension and jacks as factory-fitted options, (presumably) these would be included in the overall price and be suitably discounted. They would (again presumably) be fully warranted by the motorhome manufacturer, whereas - if the systems were retrofitted - I assume their warranty would be with whoever did the work. There’s also the potential for the retrofit work to conflict with the motorhome manufacturer’s own warranty unless the work were specifically authorised by the motorhome manufacturer. Obviously, if you chose not to have either or both of the systems fitted when the motorhome is built, their cost would not be included in the vehicle’s price, and you would not be paying for them at that stage. You could then decide later whether or not you wanted either or both systems. But given the cost of what you will be buying, if you KNOW that you will want it to have full-air suspension and/or a levelling-jack system, I would have thought that choosing 'factory-fitting’ was a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Actually Derek, we are still considering our options. As it is a huge amount of money, the outcome has to be right. Our choice has come down to either Morelo or Carthago, and with Morelo, the option price is €13200 and that is for air on the rear suspension only with no option for the front. The Carthago offers both 50C and 65C Iveco chassis options (which Morelo don't, and for the two options, full air with rear levelling is £ 5100 and 8900 respectively, and on top of that the self levelling has to be added, as said eye watering amounts. Carthargo do not seem to offer a self levelling in conjunction with air suspension. Yes, I agree to have it all done "in house" is the easier option, and Morelo use the E&P level and the VB air systems, which I would also chose. I have requested information from Carthago, but they have not been forthcoming, which I hope is not a reflection on future service! As you rightly said, the air is "included" in the discount price, but the self levelling is €8000 extra, and I await a price for the front air, if available. Hence the request for the complete kit cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 In all our many years of motorhoming we never used any form of stabilisation, not even wind down legs when they were fitted, as we just accepted that it was a motorhome and that was the way it was. It had no impact whatsoever on our use and enjoyment of the various vans over the years even with large numbers socialising and a fair bit of cooking and feeding taking place at times. Perhaps a history of boating and the sea made me appreciate the relative stability of a motorhome and I do understand that for people with mobility and balance issues a stable level platform is a great help, if not essential, but it was never for us. I don't know how much, if anything, it adds to the used or p/x value of a van but unless you are very well off may I suggest that you need to be very sure that you need it before you spend that sort of money? To that end my inclination would be to buy the van and use it and then decide whether you need to add stability, unless of course you already have!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 flyboyprowler - 2017-10-03 9:48 AM with Morelo, the option price is €13200 and that is for air on the rear suspension only with no option for the front. 8-) Blimey, think how many nights in a hotel that would pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Muswell - 2017-10-03 11:13 AM flyboyprowler - 2017-10-03 9:48 AM with Morelo, the option price is €13200 and that is for air on the rear suspension only with no option for the front. 8-) Blimey, think how many nights in a hotel that would pay for. When the alternatives are - spend it on old age care, pass it your kids to spend, or the government taking a lot of it in taxation, all of a sudden 13200 Euros does not seem so bad if it is on the right van and provides what it is wanted - just be 100% sure it is the right van! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksob Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Ainsley, ours are fitted to a Ducati xlwb panel van, so whilst the costings will be indicative they won’t be the same. You will also have greater options as to where to install the 2 compressors and the electronics, for you in a locker, for us in 2 sealed units under the van. The underneath of my van looks as busy as the roof these days!! The levellers were £5k, including remote control which is the only way we operate them. Our VB full rear air was £3k and we had that fitted at the same time. For us, we carry 2 heavy electric bikes on a rear tow ball carrier and wanted safer loading on small island ferries with steeper approach angles. So far that has worked well, we can raise rear from comfort of our seat! Also handy when putting bikes on, easy to drop the rear a bit and save my back! For pitching, our routine is, Park, handbrake on, drop suspension, lower steadies, about a minute from beginning to end, and done from the comfort of my seat if it’s wet! We are back to see Mick in 3 weeks to get front air fitted, to help with comfort and to give full control for levelling etc, another £3k. So in total for us about £11k, on trade in will swap levellers over, about £1k for labour, have to leave the air and don’t think we’d get much back on them. So, as I said before expensive but very desirable. Personally I’d spend the money every time, but you want to see the other gadgets I put on!! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Muswell - 2017-10-03 11:13 AM flyboyprowler - 2017-10-03 9:48 AM with Morelo, the option price is €13200 and that is for air on the rear suspension only with no option for the front. 8-) Blimey, think how many nights in a hotel that would pay for. Depends on the hotel, if it's Mrs Miggins...a lot, if it's the Savoy, not so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 How you linked them whit Vb air either two or four corner? You have i suppose a auto level on your VB, why you need the EP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Motor home buiilders have an option list. On alko chassis you can order all their options on suspension, but not hydraulic feets. It interferes the production line and are after market products On alko buy New their options. Because you have a grease free axle at a price tag of 2000 euro. In retro fit air premium you pay about the same amount as the chassis so you pay about 20 000 euros more to get it top alko fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Vb air suspension have now an intelligent shock absorber who make corners very easy in addition to their air suspenson . However at a price tag of 5000 euro in extra. First tested on the Morelo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksob Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Monique, air and levellers do two different things, with levellers everything is absolutely stable, in all conditions. Agree, air will give ability to level, empty tanks etc, but they are for different priorities. If I could only have one, hmmm, probably levellers I think?! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Alikelystory - 2017-10-02 8:11 PM We have just bought a new Bailey Autograph 79-4 Motorhome and are considering having an hydraulic levelling system fitted. Have any of the forum members got any personal experience of any of the brands available? Also was it the best money you have spent or an expensive useless gadget? We would really appreciate your feedback. Back to the beginning! :-) I'd suggest using the van for a bit as it is, and seeing how much of a problem levelling actually becomes for you. We rely on ramps only and, in practical terms, find we only rarely need to use even those. Most places where motorhomes can be parked while occupied are reasonably level and, since most motorhomes tend to have a nose down stance, and most ground has surface irregularities, parking with the nose up-slope, coupled with a little fine adjustment over where you actually apply the handbrake, is mostly all that is required to achieve reasonable level. We check with a small, so not especially accurate, key-ring spirit level on the dining table and, if it is near enough, and neither of us senses any out-of-level, that's it! Simple is often best! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 flyboyprowler - 2017-10-03 9:48 AM Actually Derek, we are still considering our options. As it is a huge amount of money, the outcome has to be right. Our choice has come down to either Morelo or Carthago, and with Morelo, the option price is €13200 and that is for air on the rear suspension only with no option for the front. The Carthago offers both 50C and 65C Iveco chassis options (which Morelo don't, and for the two options, full air with rear levelling is £ 5100 and 8900 respectively, and on top of that the self levelling has to be added, as said eye watering amounts. Carthargo do not seem to offer a self levelling in conjunction with air suspension. Yes, I agree to have it all done "in house" is the easier option, and Morelo use the E&P level and the VB air systems, which I would also chose. I have requested information from Carthago, but they have not been forthcoming, which I hope is not a reflection on future service! As you rightly said, the air is "included" in the discount price, but the self levelling is €8000 extra, and I await a price for the front air, if available. Hence the request for the complete kit cost. Have you actually driven either/any on your shortlist yet? As I'm sure you know, all of these motorhomes are based on commercial vehicle chassis, and their ride is consequently well below limousine quality. That would lead me to prioritise air suspension, but I'd want to at least try the vehicle is standard trim and, ideally, compare that to one with air suspension. I would also want to look at air both ends, as the main reason for including it on a commercial would seem to be shock protection for delicate, though heavy, loads, leaving the driver (often on a separately sprung seat) to fend for himself. But, bearing in mind the relatively high unsprung weight of commercial vehicle wheels/tyres etc, I'd expect there to be quite noticeable feedback from potholes/rough roads even with air suspension: it's that thing about equal and opposite reactions when controlling moving masses. The only way the bouncing wheel can be damped is by absorbing the shock load into the chassis. The question is, how much of that gets transmitted to the interior? I suspect that uncertainty may be behind your question? Motorhomes tend to a large extent to spread their weight throughout their length, rather than commercial vehicles which tend to be lighter at the front - where in any case it is only the driver's fillings that are at risk! OTOH, your new moho will have all kinds of stuff distributed around it, quite a bit of which (including occupants :-)) will benefit from a relatively vibration free life. As above to Bill, I think I'd hold back on the self levelling (unless available in conjunction with the full air suspension at modest extra cost) until I'd found out if out if level problems were sufficiently frequent in practice to justify the outlay and added complexity. This is on the assumption that it could be retro-fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 We are talking here about Iveco daily chassis and al-ko which are very different in respect to air suspension and hydraulic feets. Both can uplift your chassis axles whit tons in weight and should be carefully calibrated in regards to the standard ride height which is different set by iveco and alko. Of course you do whatever you want on your mobile to feel satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksob Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Brian, the one thing I do know is that when I’m restricted to 3500kg, i’ll Be back with plastic levellers, steel springs and a sponge to mop out my shower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I have a test drive booked with a company near Horsham who have a demo Iveco chassis which is fitted with air at both ends. I am finding it hard enough to find a van that I would want to buy, just to see, without even getting a test drive. However, there is a van we are interested in coming into stock at Southdowns, which hopefully we can see when we get back from Spain in early November. The option of having a retro fit is still under consideration, but as you rightly said Brian, the discounted price actually also discounts the extras at the same time, and the guarantee is borne by the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-10-04 2:30 PM Alikelystory - 2017-10-02 8:11 PM We have just bought a new Bailey Autograph 79-4 Motorhome and are considering having an hydraulic levelling system fitted. Have any of the forum members got any personal experience of any of the brands available? Also was it the best money you have spent or an expensive useless gadget? We would really appreciate your feedback. Back to the beginning! :-) I'd suggest using the van for a bit as it is, and seeing how much of a problem levelling actually becomes for you. We rely on ramps only and, in practical terms, find we only rarely need to use even those. Most places where motorhomes can be parked while occupied are reasonably level and, since most motorhomes tend to have a nose down stance, and most ground has surface irregularities, parking with the nose up-slope, coupled with a little fine adjustment over where you actually apply the handbrake, is mostly all that is required to achieve reasonable level. We check with a small, so not especially accurate, key-ring spirit level on the dining table and, if it is near enough, and neither of us senses any out-of-level, that's it! Simple is often best! :-) I hesitate to bring this up, but an Autograph 79-4 is pretty long (a whisker under 8 metres) with a substantial rear ovehang and, being built on an AL-KO AMC ‘low-frame’ chassis, is low to the ground from the cab rearwards. This wiil be evident from the side-views available in the “360 Exterior” section of the following link https://www.baileyofbristol.co.uk/motorhomes/autograph/autograph-79-4 I would not have thought that fitting a ‘levelling jack’ system to a 79-4 would be worthwhile, as on-line comments have observed that the rear suspension of these motorhomes is ‘stiff’, with limited movement when the vehicle is normally loaded. So there should not be much tendency to ‘rock’ when the motorhome is parked. Probably more useful would be rear air-suspension so that the motorhome’s back end could be raised to gain ground clearance when, say, embarking/disembarking from a ferry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 The OP's original question asked whether these levelling devices are value for money and is obviously a value judgement for the individual spending his money. If the motorhome is capable of having them fitted without compromising payload them if you can afford them why not? They ensure a stable platform and can cope with a reasonable degree of slope, although not extreme slopes of course, so if you can afford it do it! Personally I've always balked at the cost; I don't think I'm cheapskate but I was brought up under the Rule of Lancashire Thrift. I don't have the sorting active lifestyle which needed to stop neighbours seeking the MH rocking gently on it's springs of a morning, so the benefit for me was purely that of levelling, in lieu of putting out chocks. I have given the idea serious consideration a few times. In practical terms I guess they are only really suitable for large motorhomers, maybe 7 metres and above, for payload reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 I find levelling so important that no expense has been spared. Four pounds has been spent on a Poundland ratchet strap on each corner of the bed to make it level :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Yes it is waste of money on motorhomes.It is usefull on trucks loading and trucks whit lift cranes to support their legs. in that case some really legs are coming out. Not the tiny legs of large long motorhome who looks under estimated. First park as horizomtal as possible or drive away to a better place. Air supension from alko/ vb is well invested on front and rear during driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-10-08 4:53 PM Yes it is waste of money on motorhomes.It is usefull on trucks loading and trucks whit lift cranes to support their legs. in that case some really legs are coming out. Not the tiny legs of large long motorhome who looks under estimated. First park as horizomtal as possible or drive away to a better place. Air supension from alko/ vb is well invested on front and rear during driving. I don't agree. I have levellers and consider them as money well spent. Have you actually got experience of using hydraulic levellers? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-10-08 4:53 PM drive away to a better place. Its all very well you saying that when you are in Belgium with plenty of parking. :-D In England we have to make do with what crappy parking places we can find :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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