Campaign for a public vote on the Brexit Deal

[Barryd999]

Looks like those pesky remainers are getting organised.

 

It seems the various leading anti Brexit groups are getting co-ordinated and now have half a million people directly involved.

 

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/six-pro-eu-groups-move-to-new-shared-office-for-brexit-fightback_uk_5aa6a266e4b009b705d4d05a

 

There is a £1 Million campaign to back a public vote on the final deal (Although the Brexpress are calling it a campaign to stop Brexit) launching this Sunday headed by "Open Britain"

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/945014/brexit-news-the-peoples-vote-remain-campaign-bill-cash

 

They dont sound very happy about it which is odd as it seems like the democratic right thing to do to me.

 

You can sign up for Open Britain here. https://www.open-britain.co.uk/

 

Im an official Social Media activist. Just waiting for my Ski Mask and combat jacket. :D

[antony1969]

Oh Lordy ... Who are these sour people

[Barryd999]

Not sour Antony. We just dont trust the pollys in charge not to cock it up. They wanted the public to decide on whether we leave the EU and they have made a dogs dinner out of it. Do you not want the chance to approve or disapprove whatever deal they come up with or do you just trust them wholeheartedly to deliver what you voted for?

 

If you were part of some three year long project that cost billions of pounds and you gave it the go ahead would you not want to be able to sign off or not sign off on what was proposed before you went ahead?

[Guest pelmetman]

350 days to go B-) ..........

 

 

[Tracker]

I share Barry's distrust of the UK negotiators to come up with a fair deal from the EU - since when has the EU ever been about fairness?

 

It is my understanding that a vote in the UK and the EU parliaments will be taken once a deal has been agreed and if ever there was a case for the EU not to be fair to try and make us stay in that vote has to be it.

 

Quite what happens next if a deal is agreed but one of the parliaments chuck it out I don't know?

 

On balance I trust the UK electorate less than the government - although I trust the electorate a lot more than I trust the UK opposition - and I trust all of 'em a lot more than I trust the EU when it comes to what is best for the UK!

 

I still feel that in the medium to long term the UK will prosper better out of the EU than in it but it depends on how restrictive and expensive it is to leave that club, and I accept that it would make sense to retain some alignment with the EU but to not be party or pawn to their political manipulations and shenanigans.

[Barryd999]

Tracker - 2018-04-12 12:49 PM

 

I share Barry's distrust of the UK negotiators to come up with a fair deal from the EU - since when has the EU ever been about fairness?

 

It is my understanding that a vote in the UK and the EU parliaments will be taken once a deal has been agreed and if ever there was a case for the EU not to be fair to try and make us stay in that vote has to be it.

 

Quite what happens next if a deal is agreed but one of the parliaments chuck it out I don't know?

 

On balance I trust the UK electorate less than the government - although I trust the electorate a lot more than I trust the UK opposition - and I trust all of 'em a lot more than I trust the EU when it comes to what is best for the UK!

 

I still feel that in the medium to long term the UK will prosper better out of the EU than in it but it depends on how restrictive and expensive it is to leave that club, and I accept that it would make sense to retain some alignment with the EU but to not be party or pawn to their political manipulations and shenanigans.

 

The public were trusted enough to take the initial decision to leave so surely now so much seems to have changed they should have the right to approve or disapprove the final deal. I believe on the initial referendum vote it was clearly stated as Brexiteers keep telling us that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the Customs Union and Single Market and to stop paying in. Nobody was talking about us leaving and then trying to get back into what seems to be most of the stuff we voted to leave.

 

Brexit means Brexit said Theresa just except when it doesnt. I wouldnt stand for it you Brexiteers!! Support a vote on the final deal so you can ensure you get what you voted for!

[malc d]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 1:15 PM

 

 

The public were trusted enough to take the initial decision to leave

 

............................. so surely now so much seems to have changed they should have the right to approve or disapprove the final deal.

 

 

 

But - having left ( as per the democratic vote ) - what happens if the public vote against the deal ?

 

Presumably we would then just leave without a deal.

 

:-|

[antony1969]

Why do I need another vote ... Do I get a vote on other big decisions government take ... Did I get a vote on Cameron's EU negotiations before Brexit ??? ... Just another sour attempt by the bitter bunch to keep hold of their beloved EU ... Move on

[Tracker]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 1:15 PM

 

The public were trusted enough to take the initial decision to leave so surely now so much seems to have changed they should have the right to approve or disapprove the final deal. I believe on the initial referendum vote it was clearly stated as Brexiteers keep telling us that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the Customs Union and Single Market and to stop paying in. Nobody was talking about us leaving and then trying to get back into what seems to be most of the stuff we voted to leave.

 

Brexit means Brexit said Theresa just except when it doesnt. I wouldnt stand for it you Brexiteers!! Support a vote on the final deal so you can ensure you get what you voted for!

 

The initial referendum had less to do with trust and more to a very silly PM using the idea as a vote catcher and when it backfired instead of having the balls to stay and ensure we got a good deal he took the easier route and quit leaving others to clean up his mess.

 

Many people want out of the political EU which nobody ever asked us to join, and a return to the good old days of a common market which we were asked if we wanted to join and a majority agreed it would be a good idea.

 

And so it seemed to work well until the beaurocrats in the EU got political integration ideas and a one size fits all approach well above their station and enforced the Euro onto so many countries and thus the unrest began culminating with us being given a golden opportunity to stick two fingers up to the political side of the EU - which we did.

[Barryd999]

malc d - 2018-04-12 1:26 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 1:15 PM

 

 

The public were trusted enough to take the initial decision to leave

 

............................. so surely now so much seems to have changed they should have the right to approve or disapprove the final deal.

 

 

 

But - having left ( as per the democratic vote ) - what happens if the public vote against the deal ?

 

Presumably we would then just leave without a deal.

 

:-|

 

The campaign is suggesting an option to accept the deal, reject the deal and pull the plug.or remain.

 

There is public support for it which is growing.

 

There is a real possibility seeing as how we keep rolling over on just about everything that we could end up leaving in name only. I dont see the point in that and i dont think the majority of the public will either so then it may well come down to a decision on do we take a hard Brexit option or give it up as a bad job.

 

There are more choices than were on the original referendum voting card so it makes sense to let the public decide.

 

[Tracker]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 3:56 PM

There are more choices than were on the original referendum voting card so it makes sense to let the public decide.

 

That just means the vote will be even more split than before leading to more whingeing and non stop complaining about the fairness of it all by those who 'lose'.

[malc d]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 3:56 PM

 

 

There is a real possibility seeing as how we keep rolling over on just about everything that we could end up leaving in name only.

 

There are more choices than were on the original referendum voting card so it makes sense to let the public decide.

 

 

 

As you are so disappointed that we are leaving the EU, I would have thought that " leaving in name only " ( i.e. nothing much changes ) would suit you down to the ground ?

 

Don't understand your point about " choices "

 

We are currently negotiating our relationship with the EU after we have left - ( the decision to leave has already been made ).

 

If the electorate reject the format of that new relationship - what happens next ?

 

(.................. and would the EU agree to re-start negotiations ?)

 

:-|

[Barryd999]

malc d - 2018-04-12 4:23 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 3:56 PM

 

 

There is a real possibility seeing as how we keep rolling over on just about everything that we could end up leaving in name only.

 

There are more choices than were on the original referendum voting card so it makes sense to let the public decide.

 

 

 

As you are so disappointed that we are leaving the EU, I would have thought that " leaving in name only " ( i.e. nothing much changes ) would suit you down to the ground ?

 

Don't understand your point about " choices "

 

We are currently negotiating our relationship with the EU after we have left - ( the decision to leave has already been made ).

 

If the electorate reject the format of that new relationship - what happens next ?

 

(.................. and would the EU agree to re-start negotiations ?)

 

:-|

 

Leaving in name only will please nobody. Yes its the best option as far as damage limitation is concerned but thats the whole point. We dont know what that deal will be, it certainly does not look anything like the "We are leaving and thats all there is to it" deal I think most Brexiteers voted for.

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as none of that was mentioned on the voting paper. Some may think that such a soft Brexit is acceptable I dont know and perhaps a majority would vote for it, perhaps they might not and vote for us to pull the plug. Or of course they may decide neither option is acceptable and vote to remain.

 

The EU I think from the sounds coming out of Europe have the door wide open for us right up until 2021. Barnier has made that clear today. I guess we will have to wait and see what this new campaign brings and how public opinion go's over the next few months.

[antony1969]

Oh Lordy ... "null and void" ... Oh Lordy

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2018-04-12 4:23 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 3:56 PM

 

 

There is a real possibility seeing as how we keep rolling over on just about everything that we could end up leaving in name only.

 

There are more choices than were on the original referendum voting card so it makes sense to let the public decide.

 

 

 

As you are so disappointed that we are leaving the EU, I would have thought that " leaving in name only " ( i.e. nothing much changes ) would suit you down to the ground ?

 

Don't understand your point about " choices "

 

We are currently negotiating our relationship with the EU after we have left - ( the decision to leave has already been made ).

 

If the electorate reject the format of that new relationship - what happens next ?

 

(.................. and would the EU agree to re-start negotiations ?)

 

:-|

That depends on how comfortable anyone feels taking a country through a hugely damaging (though Art.50 is not irreversible as May and her cabinet have misled the electorate over) process after a vote swing mired in controversy was brought about by highly dubious methods at best, fraudulent at worst.

 

Chris Wylie was on the Andrew Marr politics programme on Sunday. The full interview is on iplayer but this is a short clip.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43689107/chris-wylie-i-want-a-democratic-mandate-for-brexit

[malc d]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 5:33 PM

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as......

 

....................................... none of that was mentioned on the voting paper.

 

 

I think you are getting a bit desperate with that idea.

 

Manifestos are never included on ballot papers.

 

 

;-)

[Barryd999]

malc d - 2018-04-12 5:53 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 5:33 PM

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as......

 

....................................... none of that was mentioned on the voting paper.

 

 

I think you are getting a bit desperate with that idea.

 

Manifestos are never included on ballot papers.

 

 

;-)

 

There was no Brexit manifesto though just a simple leave the EU and everything associated with it or remain. Does that look like what is happening to you?

 

Truth is none of us know what Brexit will look like or what the deal will be which is why everyone should be behind us having a say at the end of it.

[Bulletguy]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 6:27 PM

 

malc d - 2018-04-12 5:53 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 5:33 PM

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as......

 

....................................... none of that was mentioned on the voting paper.

 

 

I think you are getting a bit desperate with that idea.

 

Manifestos are never included on ballot papers.

 

 

;-)

 

There was no Brexit manifesto though just a simple leave the EU and everything associated with it or remain. Does that look like what is happening to you?

 

Truth is none of us know what Brexit will look like or what the deal will be which is why everyone should be behind us having a say at the end of it.

No "taking back control" of borders regarding Ireland. Funny that eh? Whilst UK wanted no part of the Schengen agreement when in the EU.......they now want it for Ireland if they come out! *-)

 

Britain and the EU both agree there must be no customs posts or other infrastructure after Britain leaves the EU between Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K., and EU member Ireland.

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 6:27 PM

 

malc d - 2018-04-12 5:53 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 5:33 PM

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as......

 

....................................... none of that was mentioned on the voting paper.

 

 

I think you are getting a bit desperate with that idea.

 

Manifestos are never included on ballot papers.

 

 

;-)

 

There was no Brexit manifesto though just a simple leave the EU and everything associated with it or remain. Does that look like what is happening to you?

 

Truth is none of us know what Brexit will look like or what the deal will be which is why everyone should be behind us having a say at the end of it.

 

I thought most things had been discussed during the campaign Barriey ... Our then PM was quite clear on what leaving meant though you seem to think us Brexit types were confused ... Can I offer some advice ... Get over it Barre and move on ... You've rapidly become the Lord Adonis of Chatterbox ... Boring

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2018-04-12 6:45 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 6:27 PM

 

malc d - 2018-04-12 5:53 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 5:33 PM

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as......

 

....................................... none of that was mentioned on the voting paper.

 

 

I think you are getting a bit desperate with that idea.

 

Manifestos are never included on ballot papers.

 

 

;-)

 

There was no Brexit manifesto though just a simple leave the EU and everything associated with it or remain. Does that look like what is happening to you?

 

Truth is none of us know what Brexit will look like or what the deal will be which is why everyone should be behind us having a say at the end of it.

No "taking back control" of borders regarding Ireland. Funny that eh? Whilst UK wanted no part of the Schengen agreement when in the EU.......they now want it for Ireland if they come out! *-)

 

Britain and the EU both agree there must be no customs posts or other infrastructure after Britain leaves the EU between Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K., and EU member Ireland.[/quote

 

Funny how those who have never given a fig about Ireland now conveniently use Ireland as some sort of major concern of theirs ... Ruddy hypocrites

[Brian Kirby]

Tracker - 2018-04-12 1:35 PM..................................

Many people want out of the political EU which nobody ever asked us to join, and a return to the good old days of a common market which we were asked if we wanted to join and a majority agreed it would be a good idea.

 

And so it seemed to work well until the beaurocrats in the EU got political integration ideas and a one size fits all approach well above their station and enforced the Euro onto so many countries and thus the unrest began culminating with us being given a golden opportunity to stick two fingers up to the political side of the EU - which we did.

Rich, do you really mean the above?

 

Are you really saying that you voted in 1975 without realising what you were voting for, or against? The EEC was never just a common market. It had not even always been the EEC, it had been changing since its inception as the European Coal and Steel Community in 1951, and has been doing so ever since. Just like the UK, it changes, and will go on changing. No political entity can remain static, because events keep changing, and events influence political entities.

 

The EU is what became of the EEC, after we had joined, and we contributed, democratically, via our membership, to its creation. To that extent it is what you voted for, or against, in 1975. If you voted remain then, the EU is what you voted for, along with 17,378,581 (I like the 1, I wonder who s/he was? :-D) others. If you voted leave then, along with 8,470,073 others, I understand your continued rejection of the idea, but at least you knew that of the 65% of the electorate who voted, you were in a clear minority of 33%.

 

I just don't understand how anyone could expect the EEC that we joined 45 years ago not to have changed as a result of a) us joining, b) of the other 21 member countries joining, and c) the passage of those 45 years. You seem to be arguing that the EEC should uniquely have been held in stasis, while everything else changed around it. Do I misunderstand?

[Tracker]

To be honest Brian I can't remember too much about 1975 other than it was sold to me as a common market group of nations looking to exchange trade without borders or trade tarifs - no more no less - and I do not recall anything about it becoming an all embracing political union.

 

I seem to recall the core common market nations of West Germany, France, Belgium, Holland and maybe Italy which had been ravaged by two world wars wanting to avoid a third and of them all living in fear of an invasion by the USSR.

 

As you say the world has changed and so has the EEC but I don't recall anyone offering me a referendum to register my opposition and resentment at the way the EU political machine, which my taxes help pay for, tramples everyone underfoot in it's headlong rush to make us all the same as per their model and all spending Euros.

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2018-04-12 6:49 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 6:27 PM

 

malc d - 2018-04-12 5:53 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-04-12 5:33 PM

 

I think if at the end of the summer if a deal is struck that has all kinds of strings attached to it like paying in, ECJ, Customs union etc then that makes the original referendum null and void as......

 

....................................... none of that was mentioned on the voting paper.

 

 

I think you are getting a bit desperate with that idea.

 

Manifestos are never included on ballot papers.

 

 

;-)

 

There was no Brexit manifesto though just a simple leave the EU and everything associated with it or remain. Does that look like what is happening to you?

 

Truth is none of us know what Brexit will look like or what the deal will be which is why everyone should be behind us having a say at the end of it.

 

I thought most things had been discussed during the campaign Barriey ... Our then PM was quite clear on what leaving meant though you seem to think us Brexit types were confused ... Can I offer some advice ... Get over it Barre and move on ... You've rapidly become the Lord Adonis of Chatterbox ... Boring

 

Yes he was clear and thats the point. I am sure you werent confused at the time as it was clear but it is now very apparent that none of us know what we are / were voting for as its starting to look like something completely different which is why its important that moving on we get a say in the outcome as its clearly a different vision now to what it was in 2016 and much more complex.

 

You can offer me advice to move on if you like but that wont be happening anytime soon although im not sure how much time ill have for Chatterbox in the future as I'm part of the team campaigning for a public vote on the Brexit deal. Busy times ahead. Ill report in if you like and tell you how its going, see if we can get a few of you signed up. (lol)

[antony1969]

Tracker - 2018-04-12 7:18 PM

 

To be honest Brian I can't remember too much about 1975 other than it was sold to me as a common market group of nations looking to exchange trade without borders or trade tarifs - no more no less - and I do not recall anything about it becoming an all embracing political union.

 

I seem to recall the core common market nations of West Germany, France, Belgium, Holland and maybe Italy which had been ravaged by two world wars wanting to avoid a third and of them all living in fear of an invasion by the USSR.

 

As you say the world has changed and so has the EEC but I don't recall anyone offering me a referendum to register my opposition and resentment at the way the EU political machine, which my taxes help pay for, tramples everyone underfoot in it's headlong rush to make us all the same as per their model and all spending Euros.

 

Seems like it's your fault you were sold a dummy back in the day Richard and it seems it's all your fault that you couldn't see how the EU would evolve ... Seems like it's also your fault that you were sold a dummy voting leave this time and you couldn't see how you'd been lied to during the neverendum ... Welcome to the thickety club

[Tracker]

Voting for anything is always a leap of faith tinged with distrust and it is so often more a case of who do you distrust more rather who do you prefer.

 

Manifestos never contain what is really planned and often what may have been originally planned is overtaken by events and third parties so anyone with a modicum of common sense should not be surprised at the way anything political pans out.

 

As a confirmed Waitandseer nothing surprises me and as things stand I distrust all participants, but my distrust for the EU and the opposition outweigh my distrust of the UK government - just.