witzend Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 how to I think the vasealine or similar is a must Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Why - is it likely that, when the UFI filter-unit is assembled originally, a lubricant is applied to the threads/seal before the cap is tightened down? Will a lubricant like Vaseline significantly affect the recommended 30Nm tightening torque? If lubricating the threads/seal is considered a good idea, why not just use a smear of diesel? Assuming that Fiat specify how to change the filter-cartridge, does the recommended procedure mention lubrication? I can understand Dave doing this, I’m just (mildly) interested in whether it’s ‘officially’ advised practice or if Dave has merely decided it’s a beneficial thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 For what it’s worth, I notice that Dave Newell mentioned his use of Vaseline in this 2015-2018 MHFun forum thread. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/fiat-ducato-fuel-filter-failure.102815/page-4 It seems from this that Dave has chosen to do this because he believes it’s a good idea rather than use of a lubricant being ‘officially’ recommended. While use of any lubricant should assist the tightening process, I very much doubt that there are any statistics to indicate whether or not it has a positve or negative influence on preventing subsequent leakage. Attempting to check this would involve replacing the filter-cartridge of a significant number of these filter units (say 1000) following Dave’s YouTube procedure exactly in each case up to the point when the lubricant is applied and then Vaseline-ing 500 or the filter units but not lubricating the other 500. If the number of ‘dry assembled’ filter units that subsequently leaked was significantly greater than the number of ‘Vaselined’ units that leaked, it would be reasonable to assume that lubrication was beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 When fitting oil or fuel filters to vehicles it is always recommended that some sort of lubricant is applied to the seal. This helps the seal to fit correctly and not snag and get caught. The use of Vaseline is generally used when fitting petrol fuel injectors as it petroleum based and does not attack or damage the seal. The use of a bit of diesel should help also as it has many more lubricating properties than petrol. Having fitted many filters, my guess would be the lubricant helps to stop it leaking by allowing the seal to fit correctly and not get caught. I would not advise fitting one dry ever. I don't see why it would affect the torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Wasn't Me - 2018-07-19 8:32 AM ...I would not advise fitting one dry ever. I don't see why it would affect the torque. If it’s “advisable” that a lubricant should be used when replacing the cartridge of this UFI filter-unit, one might reasonably expect the instructions/advice on the replacement procedure to say this and to suggest what lubricant should be used. As I've said above, there should be cartridge-replacement instructions in the ‘workshop manuals’ for all of the vehicles that this filter-unit is fitted to and, if using a lubricant is recommended, that’s where one would expect to find that recommendation. Dave Newell uses Vaseline and you advise against ‘dry fitting’, but what if the workshop manuals (or even one of them) advise that no lubricant should be used when the filter-unit’s cap is tightened down on to its base? I would have thought that the potential effect torque-wise of using a lubricant on the fiter-unit’s threads and seal should be self-evident and similar to the potential effect torque-wise of applying a lubricant to road-wheel retention bolts. Personally I don’t care, as the chances are nil that I’ll ever need to replace the cartride of this UFI filter, but I remain unconvinced that using a lubricant would magically improve the likelihood that the filter-unit would not subsequently leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Having worked in the automotive industry for many years for different manufacturers. In my experience the workshop manuals don't always tell you everything. And some things are just a given and come with experience. I was advising that the seal is lubed to stop it getting caught not necessarily the threads. Whilst you are correct about wheel nuts and not applying grease to the threads or between the hub and wheel face. I doubt very much if if will cause a problem, to a fuel filter. Have you ever fitted this type of filter and got the seal caught or split one? I have it makes a right mess. I suppose it's up to whoever is fitting it. My advice is, if you are not sure or don't know what you are doing. Buy a complete housing or take it to someone who knows what they are doing. Has the O.P sorted it btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Hi I have fitted loads of these filters (2 or 3 aday mainly on vauxhalls) always put diesel on the rubber ring and lubed the thread of the plasic nut. A dry nut would do up in a jurky movement a lubed nut went up smoothly. On my van I have the metal type filter and what a price they are! I would sooner have the early type with the cheap filter element you can change . Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Overlooking what may be standard practice in the automotive trade regarding lubricating the seal/threads of this filter-unit, as I’ve asked (several times) is there any guidance (one way or the other) in the relevant vehicle workshop manuals or from the filiter-unit manufacturer about this? I’ve never worked on this filter-unit, but if I did I’d follow Paul2’s practice and use diesel-fuel as a lubricant to protect the seal when tightening the cap - I’m just interested to know if Fiat/Vauxhall/UFI etc. say anything about lubrication. As you guys are working in the automotive industry you presumably have easy access to workshop manuals (hard- or soft-copy) and can look up the advice on the filter-cartridge replacement task. Regarding road-wheels, I've always lubricated the threads of wheel-bolts and wheel-studs, and applied an anti-seize compound between the inner face of a wheel and the hub. But I do this very carefully, ensure that the bolts/studs and wheels are scrupulously clean, apply a minimal quantity of lubricant, make certain that no lubricant is on the contact surfaces of the wheel-bolt/wheel-nut and the wheel, and always torque the bolts/nuts to the advised setting. This procedure may well conflict with advice in my vehicle’s workshop manual or with ‘received wisdom’ in the automotive trade, but I’ve seen instances where bolts seize into the hub and wheels corrode on to the hub and I’m unconvinced that using lubricant how I do presents potential safety issues. My Rapido imotorhome s based on a Fiat Ducato X290 chassis-cab and I’ve done three things mentioned on this forum: 1: Lubricated the outer fittings that hold each headlamp in place. 2: Replaced the air-filter’s original cross-head fastening screws with stainless-steel hex-head equivalents. 3: Greased the securing bolts that hold the fuel-injectors in place. All of these tasks fall into the ‘preventive maintenance’ category and none of them are included in a standard service schedule. Llike lubricating the fuel filter-unit’s seal/threads, they just seemed sensible things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I will have a look at the sources available to me later today and try to advise you on the items you have mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I’m not seeking information on anything other than whether there is ‘official’ guidance on lubricating the seal/thread of the plastic UFI fiter-unit that’s being discussed on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Everything you have said makes sense and if you have the time to do so, could save some problems later. That is with the exception of the wheel nuts and greasing the wheels/hubs. It is an UNSAFE practice to lubricate wheel nuts or studs. It is also UNSAFE to put and ANY grease between the wheel and the hub. This can cause issues with wheel nut torque. It is only ever advisable to put some anti-seize grease on the wheel spigot (the bit that sticks out and the wheel sits on). I understand that you are aware this is not advisable, but I feel obliged to mention it. As this is a public forum and someone else might follow your process, with fatal consequences. I hope you check the torque of your wheels on a regular basis. The spec on Autodata for a 2.3 multijet 150 says M14=160 And the note says "Do NOT lubricate bolts. Autodata does not give advice for changing a fuel filter, but it seems you have come to a conclusion that adding a bit of diesel is a good process to follow. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 When my filter failed (twice) the AA man took the o-ring off and cleaned it, as it was covered in diesel from the leak. He eventually replaced it with an in line filter connected by a length of piping and jubilee clips as a get-you-home fix. Screw in oil filters wirh a flat rubber washer always had instructions to smear with oil before fitting, but now I tell the servicing garage to leave the filter alone, my mileage isn't high enough to warrant changing and I carry a spare complete unit just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I retired last year and not fitted a filter since then. I never read about changing fuel filters in a manual just what I was told / shown when I was an apprentice. (May be it's an age thing) the correct tool is always key. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Billggski - 2018-07-20 10:04 AM ...Screw in oil filters wirh a flat rubber washer always had instructions to smear with oil before fitting... That’s certainly true, but the seal used with this UFI filter-unit is not a flat rubber washer. Dave Newell’s video covers the filter-cartridge procedure in fine detail. Regarding the ‘Vaseline treatment’ Dave says “This is what I do” - he does not say that using a lubricant like Vaseline is mandatory or mentioned in the instruction leaflet that (I presume) is provided with a new filter-cartridge. The following threads discuss lubricating rubber seals when fuel-filter changing https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f149/lube-fuel-filter-o-ring-299157/ https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/140-duramax-third-generation-2006-2007-5-lbz-lly/443409-what-lube-fuel-filter-seals.html http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54698 and I note that there is a product (Parker O-Lube) marketed specifically for O-ring lubrication. I beginning to think that there are no ‘official’ instructions - one way or the other - regarding lubricating the O-ring/threads when replacing the cartridge on this UFI filter-unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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