Continental tyres

[colin]

starvin marvin - 2018-09-20 8:38 PM

 

colin - 2018-09-19 8:19 PM

 

starvin marvin - 2018-09-19 8:04 PM

 

dawki - 2018-09-19 7:29 PM

 

Hi just finally ordering new tyres for the motorhome

235/65/16 119-121 load I have a choice of vanco 2 or van contact any one has any info on which are better for a 3850kg van.

Any info much appreciated

 

Why haven’t you included Continental Vanco Camper? We have these on ours, much preferred to Michelin offerings.

 

 

Vanco Campers (at least the ones on blackcirlces) in that size are not up to the job.

 

What are you talking about? These are camping car tyres!! Doh.

 

 

It's a common mistake people make that CP (camping car tyres) are better load carriers than 'ordinary' van tyres, this is not always the case, as per OP the Conti campers in this size are only 8 ply or load index 115, to carry the load OP wants (I'm guessing a maxi chassis like mine with 2.4t rated rear axle) you need 10 ply 121 load index.

[dawki]

Hi

And very many thanks for your replies

I think he was saying the camper car tyres aren’t up to the job as they don’t make them in the size I need with a load ratting I need

 

I had ordered some vanco 4 seasons about 3 months ago which was going to be available in 7-10 days

But never arrived despite lots of chasing so gave up on them

 

I then tried to order them elsewhere which no luck despite websites saying there available

Which made me look for alternatives hence my origanal post regarding vanco/ van contact

I found somwhere that had vanco 2 tyres and was going to reluctantly settle for those

I went to have them fitted but the tyre place said thier 2 ton jack won’t lift my van so couldn’t fit them???

 

After a suggestion by tracker I think? I emailed Continental last night

They replied this morning ( Great service) and suggested van contact 4 seasons as had been suggested earlier in the chat

After many calls today I think I have found some (£156 fitted each) I’m happy to pay that for the tyre I really want

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

colin - 2018-09-20 9:22 PM

 

...It's a common mistake people make that CP (camping car tyres) are better load carriers than 'ordinary' van tyres, this is not always the case, as per OP the Conti campers in this size are only 8 ply or load index 115, to carry the load OP wants (I'm guessing a maxi chassis like mine with 2.4t rated rear axle) you need 10 ply 121 load index.

 

Michelin’s advice on “CP”-marked tyres is on Page 4 of this document

 

https://www.michelin.co.uk/content/pdf/TC_Safety_Guide_UK.pdf

 

For some unfathomable reason the ETRTO has designated that only tyres that are 8-Ply-Rated (8PR) are allowed to be CP-marked and, as the (archaic) Ply-Rating system essentially restricts the load Index value for a given tyre size, this impacts on the load Index marking that a CP-marked tyre may carry.

 

Continental’s VancoCamper in 235/65 R16 size is CP-marked and 8PR with a load index of 115. A 115 load index equates to a (single wheel axle) maximum axle-loading of 2430kg and Continental advises that an inflation-pressure of 5.5bar (80psi) be used for that axle-loading on a rear axle.

 

For its 10PR “C”-marked 235/65 R16 tyres with a load index of 121 (maximum axle loading of 2900kg) Continental advises an inflation-pressure of 5.75bar (83psi) for a 2900kg axle loading. If the axle loading were 2430kg, the advised inflation-pressure would be around 4.75bar (69psi). So opting for the 10PR C-marked tyre potentially allows a lower inflation-pressure to be chosen.

 

However this doesn’t mean that a 235/65 R16 VancoCamper tyre, if fitted to dawki’s Auto-Trail would automatically “not be up to the job” - that could only be considered the case if he were operating his motorhome with its rear-axle loading beyond the 2430kg limit indicated by the VancoCamper’s 115 load Index.

 

Continental’s “VanContact 4Season” range apparently supersedes the “Vanco 4Season 2” pattern. Details are here

 

https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/2227928/c555b253939be0c9946999d02db4624d/vancontact-4season-pfb-data.pdf

 

I had a UK Continental Tyres contact at one stage and I recall asking him why a motorcaravanner should pay a premium price for CP-marked tyres (that were marketed as being able to tolerate being operated continuously at their load index maximum) if it were possible to buy same-size cheaper C-marked tyres with a significantly higher load index and operate them below that index’s maximum. He replied that he could not think of any persuasive reason not to opt for the C-marked tyres.

[colin]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-09-21 8:19 AM

 

However this doesn’t mean that a 235/65 R16 VancoCamper tyre, if fitted to dawki’s Auto-Trail would automatically “not be up to the job” - that could only be considered the case if he were operating his motorhome with its rear-axle loading beyond the 2430kg limit indicated by the VancoCamper’s 115 load Index.

 

Just realised that my tyres on a Maxi chassis are 114/116, so 121 does seem quite high for a 3850kg van, but there may be some good reason.

 

Looking at the link for the Cross Climates, I'd be very tempted when I need to replace the next pair of tyres on our van, they weren't available when I replaced the last pair.

I notice the image shows a tread pattern which is similar but has noticeable differences to the ones I have on the Suzi. Whilst above I've praised the Cross Climates I should note a couple of things, they do have a tendency to pick up fine gravel which was rather irritating when I first fitted them but since we have had larger gravel laid on drive. If you have 4wd be wary of fitting them to rear with summer tyres on the front, can make driving in snow very hairy, with the rears having plenty of grip and pushing you forward, but the fronts have massive understeer, not nice.

[spirou]

All season tires are ok (crossclimate look interesting) for UK or south of Spain, but don't even bother if there is snow on a mountain pass. I have arguably one of the best on snow non-studded van tires (Toyo H09) and have been stuck countless times. Sometimes even with chains on and I'm pretty used to using those in winter either with the van or car. Chasing fresh snow in the Alps and elsewhere around Europe gets you to some interesting places in less than perfect road conditions ;-)

 

3rd photo is a parking lot on pure smooth ice in Norway. Haven't tried drifting and handbrake turns in a van before that day. Let's just say I used the chains to get out. :D

[spirou]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-09-21 9:19 AM

For some unfathomable reason the ETRTO has designated that only tyres that are 8-Ply-Rated (8PR) are allowed to be CP-marked and, as the (archaic) Ply-Rating system essentially restricts the load Index value for a given tyre size, this impacts on the load Index marking that a CP-marked tyre may carry.

 

I failed to find the ETRTO standard on CP tires but if you look at Continental technical data book you will see there is at least one CP tire in size 255/55 R 18 with 10 PR. (Page 90)

 

https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/376746/e0854f2c7866c64da551474b998ef8b3/download-technical-databook-data.pdf

[Derek Uzzell]

Some years ago Continental’s website stated that the ETRTO had dictated that only 8PR tyres could be CP-marked and, consequently, VancoCamper in 215/75 R16 size and 10PR was just C-marked.

 

It seemed odd at the time, but if Continental was highlighting the 8PR/CP-marking relationship, there seemed no reason to doubt it.

 

Dunno what the present position is - if you really wanted to know Continental could probably tell you.

 

[spirou]

The only thing that bothers me is that I can't find anything about any CP standard other than some marketing from Michelin/Continental etc. With ISO you at least get to see the cover/index without paying for it, ETRTO has no mention of CP that I can find.

 

Basically I'd like to know what's different about CP with equivalent load ratings? The closest I got was this from Michelin:

The load on the tyre must not exceed its maximum limit for any reason, i.e. the load rating must be respected

 

and from Continental:

A robust construction boosts safety during temporarily increased loads according to CP standards

 

This tells me if you're worried about overloading you should just get a higher rated tire in the first place. Not much to go on is it? Especially as no winter tire exists in CP so if C is ok in winter, why would it be any different in summer?

[Derek Uzzell]

When I asked Michelin, they told me that “CP” is a tyre-marking agreed by the ETRTO, but it’s not a ‘technical standard’. It just indicates that the tyre is considered by the manufacturer to be particularly suitable for motorhome use.

[Robinhood]

It certainly isn't easy to get ETRTO information on the use and specification of CP tyres.

 

The following is an extract from a 2013 ETRTO document, and even then it is rather less than satisfactory.

 

===

 

Tyre use and maintenance for motor-caravans (or motor homes)

 

Fit the right tyres

 

As with all road vehicles, it is essential that tyres of the correct type be fitted.

 

Tyres usually fitted to motor-caravans are of a "light commercial (“'C”' or “CP”)" type. CP

type-tyres (commercial vehicle tyres for service on motor-caravans) have only been marketed

in the last few years. This followed a study which demonstrated, that overloading is generally

the main cause of tyre failure, due to the fact that this type of vehicle often carries an

excessive or badly distributed load, which, may be higher than that permitted by the load

index (LI) of the tyre; usually on tyres fitted to the rear axle.

 

CP-type tyres have been designed to cater for the higher loads imposed by motor-caravans,

especially when fitted in single formation on the rear driven axle (also see following

comments below referring to the “service description”).

 

It is always advisable to have the same type of tyres on all wheels and axles. Only tyres of

the same size and service description (load index / speed symbol) and identical wheels

should be fitted across an axle and carried as a spare. Tyre pressures across an axle should

be equal. Additionally, any deviation from the original type of tyre is likely to have an effect on

the handling and general characteristics of the vehicle. For these reasons, it is strongly

recommended that motor-caravans are only fitted with CP-tyres.

 

Therefore, before changing the type of tyres, always consult either the vehicle or the tyre-manufacturer.

 

When fitting any new tyre size differing from the original equipment, it is the users’

responsibility to ensure compliance with existing regulations, regarding specifically, the

vehicle’s load and speed capability. Never replace tyres with those of a lower speed rating or

lower load capacity.

 

Referring to the "service description"

 

The LI designation of CP-type tyres carries a single “load index” indicating their normal use in

single fitment. In this case only, tyres on the rear axle have to be inflated to 550 kPa, (to

compensate for severe conditions of unequal load distribution, but with no further concession

to increase the maximum load capacity). When these tyres are used in dual fitment, a tyre

pressure increase is not required and the axle load capacity is calculated as 1.85 times that

of a single wheel fitment.

 

General recommendations for motor-caravans (or motor homes)

 

Check the pressures

 

It is essential for the safety and stability of the vehicle that all tyres are correctly inflated.

Incorrect tyre pressures do not only adversely affect the handling, but can also cause

dangerous tyre failure. The correct inflation pressure for motor-caravan tyres will be shown in

the vehicle / chassis handbook.

 

Furthermore, tyres that are not inflated to the correct pressure may wear rapidly and

adversely affect the fuel consumption of the vehicle. Therefore, in the long run, keeping them

at the right pressure could also save money. Pressures should be checked and, if necessary,

adjusted prior to any journey when the tyres are cold - not after being driven when they will

be higher. Never reduce tyre pressure when the tyre is warm, as the pressure may be too low

when the tyre cools. After checking the tyre pressure, ensure that the valve is not leaking and

that a valve cap is fitted.

 

Tyre care

 

Check your tyres regularly but particularly when the motor-caravan has not been used for

some time. Vehicles that are not normally used during winter should be thoroughly inspected

prior to re-use. Inspect for any sign of deterioration in the tyres such as sidewall cracking

and/or carcass deformation. Tyres fitted to a stationary vehicle, particularly if parked in

coastal areas may deteriorate more quickly over time than those in regular and frequent use.

If a motor-caravan remains stationary (parked) for a length of time, it is requested to cover

the tyres in order to shield them from direct sunlight and, if possible, jack the weight off them.

If in doubt about the condition of your tyres, have them checked immediately by a tyre

specialist.

 

Do not overload

 

At anytime it is dangerous to overload tyres. Police may take action against drivers when

their vehicle is carrying an excessive or poorly distributed load. A poorly distributed load can

cause overloading of one or more tyres, even when the maximum permissible total load is not

exceeded. It is important to spread the load evenly around the vehicle and as low as

possible, thus not impairing the stability of the vehicle. Failure to adhere to this rule may

initiate tyre problems and possible tyre failure.