Tracker Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-10-27 6:20 PM Having ones cake as well as eating it won't work and a better analogy often used to address this is you cannot expect the benefits of 'a club' whilst refusing to pay your membership fee. Do you shop for free at your local supermarket....walk in and take what you want off the shelves? :-S Exactly - we join any shop's exclusive 'club' when we enter their premises and we buy and pay for exactly what we want, no more, no less, leaving the rest for other 'members' who might have different wants. Similarly with all 'clubs' everyone uses what suits their needs or their wants and leaves the rest for others. On that basis we would like the Common Market trade and customs arrangements but not the rest of it so let's just pay a reduced membership fee. Simples - or it was before the politicians and beaurocrats cocked it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:55 PM...............….I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. 1 But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - 2 How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? 3 How will we fare in the transition period? 4 How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? 5 What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? 1 But I don't think it is quite that simple either. Many roles previously undertaken by the UK government before we joined, will come back to the UK government to undertake post-Brexit. That will cost more in terms of the increased numbers of civil servants required. 2 How long indeed! How long does the average trade deal take to negotiate and, if we do not secure a favourable trade deal with the EU, achieving compensating profitable trade with other countries will become critical. They will all know that. All we have to trade is what we can sell, while what they want is what they can sell us. I can't see the balance being in our favour. 3 The uncertainty will damage inward, and home sourced, investment. 4 Same as now. Encouraging, innit! :-D 5 Depends how we play our hand in the EU, but I imagine that, economically, we would continue to prosper by comparison to any current version of leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-10-27 8:10 PM Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:55 PM...............….I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. 1 But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - 2 How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? 3 How will we fare in the transition period? 4 How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? 5 What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? 1 But I don't think it is quite that simple either. Many roles previously undertaken by the UK government before we joined, will come back to the UK government to undertake post-Brexit. That will cost more in terms of the increased numbers of civil servants required. 2 How long indeed! How long does the average trade deal take to negotiate and, if we do not secure a favourable trade deal with the EU, achieving compensating profitable trade with other countries will become critical. They will all know that. All we have to trade is what we can sell, while what they want is what they can sell us. I can't see the balance being in our favour. 3 The uncertainty will damage inward, and home sourced, investment. 4 Same as now. Encouraging, innit! :-D 5 Depends how we play our hand in the EU, but I imagine that, economically, we would continue to prosper by comparison to any current version of leave. 1.....So we'll be paying for our own civil servants instead of the EU's? ;-) ....... 2.....A lot less than it does with 26 other countries self interests involved *-) ...... 3.....Doesn't seemed to have made much difference so far, considering we should be up to our necks in recession by now >:-) ........ 4.....No change there regardless of Brexit (lol) ......... 5......We'll prosper because that's what we "Proper Brits" do B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-10-27 10:01 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-10-27 8:10 PM Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:55 PM...............….I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. 1 But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - 2 How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? 3 How will we fare in the transition period? 4 How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? 5 What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? 1 But I don't think it is quite that simple either. Many roles previously undertaken by the UK government before we joined, will come back to the UK government to undertake post-Brexit. That will cost more in terms of the increased numbers of civil servants required. 2 How long indeed! How long does the average trade deal take to negotiate and, if we do not secure a favourable trade deal with the EU, achieving compensating profitable trade with other countries will become critical. They will all know that. All we have to trade is what we can sell, while what they want is what they can sell us. I can't see the balance being in our favour. 3 The uncertainty will damage inward, and home sourced, investment. 4 Same as now. Encouraging, innit! :-D 5 Depends how we play our hand in the EU, but I imagine that, economically, we would continue to prosper by comparison to any current version of leave. 1.....So we'll be paying for our own civil servants instead of the EU's? ;-) ....... 2.....A lot less than it does with 26 other countries self interests involved *-) ...... 3.....Doesn't seemed to have made much difference so far, considering we should be up to our necks in recession by now >:-) ........ 4.....No change there regardless of Brexit (lol) ......... 5......We'll prosper because that's what we "Proper Brits" do B-) ......... Well maybe you can answer the golden question that no Brexiteer has been able to answer anywhere then. How will the average family be better off post Brexit? You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? Answers such as "It just will or there is a great big world out there etc etc" wont cut the mustard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 8:24 AM pelmetman - 2018-10-27 10:01 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-10-27 8:10 PM Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:55 PM...............….I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. 1 But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - 2 How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? 3 How will we fare in the transition period? 4 How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? 5 What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? 1 But I don't think it is quite that simple either. Many roles previously undertaken by the UK government before we joined, will come back to the UK government to undertake post-Brexit. That will cost more in terms of the increased numbers of civil servants required. 2 How long indeed! How long does the average trade deal take to negotiate and, if we do not secure a favourable trade deal with the EU, achieving compensating profitable trade with other countries will become critical. They will all know that. All we have to trade is what we can sell, while what they want is what they can sell us. I can't see the balance being in our favour. 3 The uncertainty will damage inward, and home sourced, investment. 4 Same as now. Encouraging, innit! :-D 5 Depends how we play our hand in the EU, but I imagine that, economically, we would continue to prosper by comparison to any current version of leave. 1.....So we'll be paying for our own civil servants instead of the EU's? ;-) ....... 2.....A lot less than it does with 26 other countries self interests involved *-) ...... 3.....Doesn't seemed to have made much difference so far, considering we should be up to our necks in recession by now >:-) ........ 4.....No change there regardless of Brexit (lol) ......... 5......We'll prosper because that's what we "Proper Brits" do B-) ......... Well maybe you can answer the golden question that no Brexiteer has been able to answer anywhere then. How will the average family be better off post Brexit? You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? Answers such as "It just will or there is a great big world out there etc etc" wont cut the mustard. If you think the prosperity will come from an EU thats imploding then good luck ... If we leave with no deal and no divorce settlement who picks up the shortfall Germany ??? ... A Germany already massively rejecting Merkel and doing sumat that was unthinkable not long ago questioning the EU ... Golden boy Macrons popularity in France dropping to record lows ... Lets not even start on Italy , thats the EUs top 4 with us included who are already jumping ship ... Look further afield at Austria , Poland etc ... EU've had it Barry ... If you were on the Titanic you'd be still on it playing your guitar to your favourite tune Deutschlandlied as it went down ... So for me my view is we are better to jump ship now than wait for your out of tune squeaky voiced rendition of Deutschlandlied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-10-28 9:11 AM Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 8:24 AM pelmetman - 2018-10-27 10:01 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-10-27 8:10 PM Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:55 PM...............….I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. 1 But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - 2 How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? 3 How will we fare in the transition period? 4 How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? 5 What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? 1 But I don't think it is quite that simple either. Many roles previously undertaken by the UK government before we joined, will come back to the UK government to undertake post-Brexit. That will cost more in terms of the increased numbers of civil servants required. 2 How long indeed! How long does the average trade deal take to negotiate and, if we do not secure a favourable trade deal with the EU, achieving compensating profitable trade with other countries will become critical. They will all know that. All we have to trade is what we can sell, while what they want is what they can sell us. I can't see the balance being in our favour. 3 The uncertainty will damage inward, and home sourced, investment. 4 Same as now. Encouraging, innit! :-D 5 Depends how we play our hand in the EU, but I imagine that, economically, we would continue to prosper by comparison to any current version of leave. 1.....So we'll be paying for our own civil servants instead of the EU's? ;-) ....... 2.....A lot less than it does with 26 other countries self interests involved *-) ...... 3.....Doesn't seemed to have made much difference so far, considering we should be up to our necks in recession by now >:-) ........ 4.....No change there regardless of Brexit (lol) ......... 5......We'll prosper because that's what we "Proper Brits" do B-) ......... Well maybe you can answer the golden question that no Brexiteer has been able to answer anywhere then. How will the average family be better off post Brexit? You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? Answers such as "It just will or there is a great big world out there etc etc" wont cut the mustard. If you think the prosperity will come from an EU thats imploding then good luck ... If we leave with no deal and no divorce settlement who picks up the shortfall Germany ??? ... A Germany already massively rejecting Merkel and doing sumat that was unthinkable not long ago questioning the EU ... Golden boy Macrons popularity in France dropping to record lows ... Lets not even start on Italy , thats the EUs top 4 with us included who are already jumping ship ... Look further afield at Austria , Poland etc ... EU've had it Barry ... If you were on the Titanic you'd be still on it playing your guitar to your favourite tune Deutschlandlied as it went down ... So for me my view is we are better to jump ship now than wait for your out of tune squeaky voiced rendition of Deutschlandlied The EU is far from imploding. Its fared well in comparison to the UK since we voted to leave and approval rating from each country has gone up not down since the vote apart from Italy which dropped 1%. Nobody is jumping ship. even your Italian hero has no intention of leaving. The EU will be poorer short term but there is an argument that the UK is holding back the EU. Most of the EU favour freedom of movement and there is already a brain drain as valued and important EU nationals turn their backs on the UK and return to Europe. Of course there is the prospect of the EU picking up the spoils as businesses and agencies in the UK move over to Europe as Britain shoots itself in the mush. The EU is far from finished Antony. The boat is still steaming ahead. If and when it starts to flounder we can jump ship then, not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 9:53 AM antony1969 - 2018-10-28 9:11 AM Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 8:24 AM pelmetman - 2018-10-27 10:01 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-10-27 8:10 PM Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:55 PM...............….I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. 1 But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - 2 How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? 3 How will we fare in the transition period? 4 How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? 5 What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? 1 But I don't think it is quite that simple either. Many roles previously undertaken by the UK government before we joined, will come back to the UK government to undertake post-Brexit. That will cost more in terms of the increased numbers of civil servants required. 2 How long indeed! How long does the average trade deal take to negotiate and, if we do not secure a favourable trade deal with the EU, achieving compensating profitable trade with other countries will become critical. They will all know that. All we have to trade is what we can sell, while what they want is what they can sell us. I can't see the balance being in our favour. 3 The uncertainty will damage inward, and home sourced, investment. 4 Same as now. Encouraging, innit! :-D 5 Depends how we play our hand in the EU, but I imagine that, economically, we would continue to prosper by comparison to any current version of leave. 1.....So we'll be paying for our own civil servants instead of the EU's? ;-) ....... 2.....A lot less than it does with 26 other countries self interests involved *-) ...... 3.....Doesn't seemed to have made much difference so far, considering we should be up to our necks in recession by now >:-) ........ 4.....No change there regardless of Brexit (lol) ......... 5......We'll prosper because that's what we "Proper Brits" do B-) ......... Well maybe you can answer the golden question that no Brexiteer has been able to answer anywhere then. How will the average family be better off post Brexit? You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? Answers such as "It just will or there is a great big world out there etc etc" wont cut the mustard. If you think the prosperity will come from an EU thats imploding then good luck ... If we leave with no deal and no divorce settlement who picks up the shortfall Germany ??? ... A Germany already massively rejecting Merkel and doing sumat that was unthinkable not long ago questioning the EU ... Golden boy Macrons popularity in France dropping to record lows ... Lets not even start on Italy , thats the EUs top 4 with us included who are already jumping ship ... Look further afield at Austria , Poland etc ... EU've had it Barry ... If you were on the Titanic you'd be still on it playing your guitar to your favourite tune Deutschlandlied as it went down ... So for me my view is we are better to jump ship now than wait for your out of tune squeaky voiced rendition of Deutschlandlied The EU is far from imploding. Its fared well in comparison to the UK since we voted to leave and approval rating from each country has gone up not down since the vote apart from Italy which dropped 1%. Nobody is jumping ship. even your Italian hero has no intention of leaving. The EU will be poorer short term but there is an argument that the UK is holding back the EU. Most of the EU favour freedom of movement and there is already a brain drain as valued and important EU nationals turn their backs on the UK and return to Europe. Of course there is the prospect of the EU picking up the spoils as businesses and agencies in the UK move over to Europe as Britain shoots itself in the mush. The EU is far from finished Antony. The boat is still steaming ahead. If and when it starts to flounder we can jump ship then, not now. Hams Christian Anderson couldn't have made up a better story ... Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 8:24 AM You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? The same places it does now *-) ......... We're not in the G7 because of the EU........We're in the G7 in-spite of the EU >:-) .......... Will you no longer buy smelly French cheese or Belgian p*ss water because we're NOT in the EU? ;-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-10-29 7:56 AM Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 8:24 AM You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? The same places it does now *-) ......... We're not in the G7 because of the EU........We're in the G7 in-spite of the EU >:-) .......... Will you no longer buy smelly French cheese or Belgian p*ss water because we're NOT in the EU? ;-) ....... No I probably wont be buying it. Its already up 25% on what it was two years ago. Imagine what it will cost when or if we actually leave? You wont be bothered because your under the impression a massive hit to the economy wont effect you. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-10-29 10:48 AM pelmetman - 2018-10-29 7:56 AM Barryd999 - 2018-10-28 8:24 AM You clearly still believe we will be better off then so I want to know how? Which club will we be joining when we leave this one? We have to be a member of something and no country in the world relies on WTO membership alone so Im dying to know. Where is the prosperity coming from? The same places it does now *-) ......... We're not in the G7 because of the EU........We're in the G7 in-spite of the EU >:-) .......... Will you no longer buy smelly French cheese or Belgian p*ss water because we're NOT in the EU? ;-) ....... No I probably wont be buying it. Its already up 25% on what it was two years ago. Imagine what it will cost when or if we actually leave? You wont be bothered because your under the impression a massive hit to the economy wont effect you. *-) Oh dear .....how sad ......never mind :D ........Just think what it'll do for your waistline ;-) .......... See there's another Brexit bonus you hadn't thought of >:-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 114,366 signatures Show on a map 100,000 Parliament will consider this for a debate Parliament considers all petitions that get more than 100,000 signatures for a debate Waiting for 7 days for a debate date Government responded This response was given on 6 November 2018 A clear majority of the electorate voted to leave the European Union. We must respect both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered this result. The Government is clear that we will respect the result of the 2016 referendum, and that we will not hold a second referendum. A clear majority of the electorate voted to leave the European Union in the 2016 referendum. Almost three quarters of the electorate took part in the referendum, resulting in 17.4 million votes to leave the European Union. This is the highest number of votes cast for anything in UK electoral history. This was the biggest democratic mandate for a course of action ever directed at any UK Government. Parliament then overwhelmingly confirmed the result of the referendum by voting with clear and convincing majorities in both of its Houses for the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill. In last year’s General Election, over 80% of people then also voted for parties committing to respect the result of the referendum - it was the stated policy of both major parties that the decision of the people would be respected. The Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will expressed by the electorate in the referendum - respecting both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered the referendum result. The British people must be able to trust in its Government both to effect their will, and to deliver the best outcome for them. As the Prime Minister has said: “This is about more than the decision to leave the EU; it is about whether the public can trust their politicians to put in place the decision they took.” In upholding that directive to withdraw from the European Union, the Government is delivering on that promise. We recognise that to do otherwise would be to undermine the decision of the British people, and to disrespect the powerful democratic values of this country and this government. The Government therefore continues to be committed to delivering on the instruction given to us by the British people: working to overcome the challenges and seize the opportunities this brings to deliver an outcome which betters the lives of British people - whether they voted to Leave or to Remain. The people of the United Kingdom gave a clear instruction and the Government is committed to seeing that through. We will leave the European Union on 29 March 2019. Department for Exiting the European Union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Yadah yadah yadah. Standard guff copy and pasted just to keep your lot quiet while they run around in blind panic trying to fit the square pegs in round holes. Meanwhile the gap widens in favour of Remain. At what point will they be forced to respect that? Brexit is no longer the will of the people (not that it ever was). One thing we should have learned over the past two and a half years is to expect the unexpected. Your petition hasnt exactly sky rocketed either. Vote Leaves second referendum petition reached four and a half million sigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-11-07 9:12 AM Yadah yadah yadah. Standard guff copy and pasted just to keep your lot quiet while they run around in blind panic trying to fit the square pegs in round holes. Meanwhile the gap widens in favour of Remain. At what point will they be forced to respect that? Brexit is no longer the will of the people (not that it ever was). One thing we should have learned over the past two and a half years is to expect the unexpected. Your petition hasnt exactly sky rocketed either. Vote Leaves second referendum petition reached four and a half million sigs. I'm surprised it's got as many signatures as it has, seeing as none of our Remoaner media has promoted it :D .............It's still got enough though for a debate B-) .......... When you say "The gap widens"..........Is that the 54% who would vote to stay.......IF you take out the don't knows? (lol) ............. That's called spin Barry ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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