antony1969 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-15 4:47 PM antony1969 - 2018-11-15 6:35 AM It obviously grinds ya that "Little Englander Doncaster man" which is very racist by the way decided your future ... Very telling that by the time you'd posted your racist attack you'd had time to digest much of the agreement yet chose to racially attack an individual whose intelligence your obviously questioning ... Very telling ... By the way its a nice clip that , nice family day out father with one his kids , really nice Antony, the only way that crack could construed racist, is if you think the folk from Doncaster are of a different race! I'll agree it's a bit discriminatory, in that it lumps all inhabitants of Doncaster into the same group as the guy on the C4 news, but I'm surprised you have hit on that as racism since you do that yourself incessantly - except your target group isn't Doncastrians. Me? I just thought the guy was a fairly typical market trader, and well suited to his calling. He may or may not be particularly intelligent - intelligence takes many forms - but what he undeniably is was ill informed and not that well educated. However, I assume he could improve on both/either should he wish. I do think it was unfair of C4 to send out reporters to interview people, and then broadcast the opinions (I assume) of some of the least thoughtful and articulate people they found. There must have been others with better formulated arguments on both sides of the debate. Choosing the least able to represent one side is a bit of a cheap shot. Glad you thought they presented a good impression of Doncastrians though, even if it does seem a bit hard! :-D "Little Englander" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 snowie - 2018-11-15 1:58 PM And I understand that mr Mogg has sent his letter in. So he’s going to precipitate a change of leader of his party. So that we can all buy cheaper shoes as I understand it. Thanks . I now expect that the deal negotiated will be rejected by parliament, A people’s vote will be rejected. Leaving without a deal will also be prevented by Parliament ..........And members of Parliament will do what they are paid for, make some decisions. The main one being to reverse Article 50, not at all sure how that can be done, but we won’t be leaving on 29th March So we can all calm down and get on with the important things Snowie What I like about the Tory party is how loyal they are and how selflessly they behave at times like this. There is a crowd funded case going before the European court on 27 November, that will try the principle of whether the UK can unilaterally rescind the Article 50 notice, or whether the agreement of the other 27 would be necessary for rescission. The expectation is the ruling will support the UK's right to rescind unilaterally. Fingers crossed? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 2:26 PM...……………..TM's speech today brought home to me the enormous complexity involved in withdrawing from the EU. It seems like the government's task is akin to an exercise in stripping out most of a person's central nervous system and ensuring as far as possible that they survive unharmed. Er, yep. Excellent summary, except they have to do so without the person noticing what is happening! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Thanks for that Brian I hadn't been aware of the date. I presume it is the "Scottish case"? If so that seems pretty quick. I thought we would have had an opinion from the Advocate General first. Speaking of loyalty, as others have, Ken Clarke's response was the most noble and loyal this morning. A good Prime Minister we never had sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 3:24 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 3:03 PM But he is not a Judge in the ECJ BG so his views don't count. We can but hope that he's right though. Yes i know but as he helped write Art.50 i expect he's well versed in the legalities of it. Better informed than any MP. Not necessarily. He knows better than anyone else what he meant it to mean, but what will emerge from the case will be what the court decides it actually does mean - which may not be the same thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-15 4:55 PM...………………. "Little Englander" ??? That is an attitude of mind (generally portrayed in a derogatory way), Antony, not a Race. See here, http://tinyurl.com/ydfvsn85 - especially the bit about later usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-15 5:11 PM antony1969 - 2018-11-15 4:55 PM...………………. "Little Englander" ??? That is an attitude of mind (generally portrayed in a derogatory way), Antony, not a Race. See here, http://tinyurl.com/ydfvsn85 - especially the bit about later usage. Maybe so Brian but it depends on how the person saying it means it does it not ... If I said Little Pakistani Im sure you'd draw your own conclusions ... Terms , words , sayings take on different meanings as you know as years pass , take something like earmarked doesnt mean what it originally meant ... The OP meant Little Englander in a nasty , derogatory way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I wonder whether Lord Kerr thinks that he didn't draft it very well in hindsight; the wonderful gift that it invariably is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-15 5:15 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-15 5:11 PM antony1969 - 2018-11-15 4:55 PM...………………. "Little Englander" ??? That is an attitude of mind (generally portrayed in a derogatory way), Antony, not a Race. See here, http://tinyurl.com/ydfvsn85 - especially the bit about later usage. Maybe so Brian but it depends on how the person saying it means it does it not ... If I said Little Pakistani Im sure you'd draw your own conclusions ... Terms , words , sayings take on different meanings as you know as years pass , take something like earmarked doesnt mean what it originally meant ... The OP meant Little Englander in a nasty , derogatory way You'd do well to take another read of Brians first post, digest in particular the second para, take a deep breath, then think before you shoot yourself in the foot any more otherwise you won't have any feet left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:20 PM I wonder whether Lord Kerr thinks that he didn't draft it very well in hindsight; the wonderful gift that it invariably is. How so? According to what he said it is revocable as he first spoke out about that when May had misled the electorate into believing it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 5:24 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:20 PM I wonder whether Lord Kerr thinks that he didn't draft it very well in hindsight; the wonderful gift that it invariably is. How so? According to what he said it is revocable as he first spoke out about that when May had misled the electorate into believing it wasn't. It's silent on revocation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:30 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 5:24 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:20 PM I wonder whether Lord Kerr thinks that he didn't draft it very well in hindsight; the wonderful gift that it invariably is. How so? According to what he said it is revocable as he first spoke out about that when May had misled the electorate into believing it wasn't. It's silent on revocation This alone was enough to convince me. "“I’m not a politician. I’m just the guy who wrote the treaty telling you what the treaty means.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/brexit-date-is-not-irreversible-says-man-who-wrote-article-50-lord-kerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-15 5:15 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-15 5:11 PM antony1969 - 2018-11-15 4:55 PM...………………. "Little Englander" ??? That is an attitude of mind (generally portrayed in a derogatory way), Antony, not a Race. See here, http://tinyurl.com/ydfvsn85 - especially the bit about later usage. Maybe so Brian but it depends on how the person saying it means it does it not ... If I said Little Pakistani Im sure you'd draw your own conclusions ... Terms , words , sayings take on different meanings as you know as years pass , take something like earmarked doesnt mean what it originally meant ... The OP meant Little Englander in a nasty , derogatory way I certainly wasn't complimentary, Antony, but racist? I think that is far too PC - even coming from our most PC forum contributor. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 5:37 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:30 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 5:24 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:20 PM I wonder whether Lord Kerr thinks that he didn't draft it very well in hindsight; the wonderful gift that it invariably is. How so? According to what he said it is revocable as he first spoke out about that when May had misled the electorate into believing it wasn't. It's silent on revocation This alone was enough to convince me. "“I’m not a politician. I’m just the guy who wrote the treaty telling you what the treaty means.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/brexit-date-is-not-irreversible-says-man-who-wrote-article-50-lord-kerr Yes, Paul, but as with contracts of all kinds, what their author meant when the wrote it is not necessarily what a court subsequently decides the words actually mean. As I said above, he is the greatest authority on what he meant, but he cannot foretell whether a court (especially a "foreign" court working in a different (usually Napoleonic) legal tradition than UK courts work in) will agree with him. Be interesting to see what happens. Remember, remember, 27 November? Maybe we'll have to have another bonfire night every 27 November as well! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-15 5:51 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 5:37 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:30 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 5:24 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-15 5:20 PM I wonder whether Lord Kerr thinks that he didn't draft it very well in hindsight; the wonderful gift that it invariably is. How so? According to what he said it is revocable as he first spoke out about that when May had misled the electorate into believing it wasn't. It's silent on revocation This alone was enough to convince me. "“I’m not a politician. I’m just the guy who wrote the treaty telling you what the treaty means.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/brexit-date-is-not-irreversible-says-man-who-wrote-article-50-lord-kerr Yes, Paul, but as with contracts of all kinds, what their author meant when the wrote it is not necessarily what a court subsequently decides the words actually mean. As I said above, he is the greatest authority on what he meant, but he cannot foretell whether a court (especially a "foreign" court working in a different (usually Napoleonic) legal tradition than UK courts work in) will agree with him. Be interesting to see what happens. Remember, remember, 27 November? Maybe we'll have to have another bonfire night every 27 November as well! :-D I assume when written Kerr wasn't the only person involved and there would probably have been a number of legal eagles pouring over it before it went through. There must also surely have been approval from EC as it's applicable to all member countries, not just UK. If a court was now to decide 'erm no that's not quite what you meant...this is what you mean', they'd effectively be telling the EC they'd got a piece of legislation wrong. I think the HoC had their bonfire party this afternoon! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Looks like the Maybot is just clinging onto control :D .......... The Remoaners have prolly got her Gaffa taped into No 10 (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-15 6:12 PM.....................I assume when written Kerr wasn't the only person involved and there would probably have been a number of legal eagles pouring over it before it went through. There must also surely have been approval from EC as it's applicable to all member countries, not just UK. If a court was now to decide 'erm no that's not quite what you meant...this is what you mean', they'd effectively be telling the EC they'd got a piece of legislation wrong. I think the HoC had their bonfire party this afternoon! (lol) I'm sure you are right, but the final test of how well they did their job will be during the court hearing. After all, it is not unknown for equally carefully drafted pieces of UK legislation to be found wanting when actual circumstances meet intent in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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