motorHomerRog Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Hi, This is my first post on this site. I have searched for this particular problem and have found many similar issues but not this particular one so here goes.. We have recently bought a new Elddis 105 Evolution 105 from Brownhills. We had a few teething problems, as seems to be the norm! One of which was a random failure of the new style digital combined water/battery meter. Some times it works (giving both battery and water levels, by pressing different keys) and sometimes it does nothing at all. We stayed over night at Brownhills when we collected the motorhome and they looked into it and could not reproduce our observed issue, and at that time we could not reproduce it either. Since then the problem seems to come and go. We can turn up on site and the battery/water meter works. Then we fill up with water and it doesnt work (sometimes!). When the meter is not working on an evening it can then work ok again the next day. Or it could have been working the day before and not working the day after. I have tried to put my logical head on and find a sequence of events that may cause the failure and recovery of the fault but so far i'm stumped. Any suggestions on what could be causing it ? Many Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Roger. The “Evolution” model is a Brownhills ‘special’ that’s been marketed for a few years and I think the control-panel that’s playing up in your motorhome was introduced for the 2016 model-year. I've attached a photo that (I hope!) shows the panel. Presumably the way it ought to function is (having switched the panel on) you just touch (or press) the battery or water ‘button’ and (respectively) the leisure-battery’s state of charge or the amount of fresh water in the tank will be shown graphically in the display above the buttons. The logical answer to why this issue occurs intemittently is not that the problem is provoked by some sort of event sequence - it’s simply that the control-panel is faulty or (possibly) that it’s not properly connected at its rear. Ask Brownhills to replace the control-panel. If the problem disappears you (and Brownhills) will know the panel was the culprit. If the problem persists, then the fault will need further investigation. It’s generally accepted that motorhome water and battery gauge readings can be badly inaccurate (particularly the water-contents reading) but the gauges should provide reasonably useful information, not just work sporadically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorHomerRog Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Thanks for your comments Derek. Yes that is the correct panel. I will contact Brownhills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky malc Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Hi Rodger l also have a 105 with the same fault! My background is an electronics engineer. The panel manufacture has belatedly recognised that they have a problem!! What is happening is that when the whale pump operates it gives off large transient spikes particularly when it builds pressure prior to switching off. (Transient spikes read interference). These voltage spikes (shown on a scope to be an unbelievable 100volts) cause the water/volt meter to lock up! The panel manufacture has been to my house twice and I have been to Marquis 3 times!! All have been very helpful but! The panel manufacturers cure for the lock up (which worked) Has left the water gauge totally and comprehensively inaccurate. I am to return to my friends at Marquis when the panel manufacture will attend. If the van was not in warranty I would fit a panel of my own design. It could not be worse!! Good luck you are in for a bumpy ride. Malc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Malcolm. Who manufactures the control-panel, please? I notice that the control-panel for the Whale Duo Control water/air heating system apparently is made by CBE, but the other panel doesn’t look like a CBE product to me. Presumably it’s a Whale “Watermaster” pump that’s producing the transient spikes? If the water/volt meter is capable of accurate readouts if it were not being affected by the spikes, perhaps swapping the Whale pump for a different make (SHURflo or Fiamma) could provide a ‘cure’. Might not go down well with Whale though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Mucky malc - 2019-02-18 4:44 PM Hi Rodger l also have a 105 with the same fault! My background is an electronics engineer. The panel manufacture has belatedly recognised that they have a problem!! What is happening is that when the whale pump operates it gives off large transient spikes particularly when it builds pressure prior to switching off. (Transient spikes read interference). These voltage spikes (shown on a scope to be an unbelievable 100volts) cause the water/volt meter to lock up! The panel manufacture has been to my house twice and I have been to Marquis 3 times!! All have been very helpful but! The panel manufacturers cure for the lock up (which worked) Has left the water gauge totally and comprehensively inaccurate. I am to return to my friends at Marquis when the panel manufacture will attend. If the van was not in warranty I would fit a panel of my own design. It could not be worse!! Good luck you are in for a bumpy ride. Malc How about fitting a reverse bias diode across the motor windings and a 100nf capacitor across the electronics power supply? Apologies if I'm being patronising ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Or maybe a choke in the power feed and a smoothing capacitor across it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky malc Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Control panel is made by BCA in Halifax Yorkshire and is the same as the one pictured. The company have admitted that they have got a problem and that problem was caused by the pump interference. As others have mentioned the back EMF created by the pump is causing these transient spikes. These inductive spikes are not unique to Whale pumps. I do not fully understand why adequate filtering has not been fitted. The wiring to the pump is another aspect in so much as the way it's connected to relays within the control box adds to the spikes being radiated around other equipment. My problems with BCA are not solely the water/battery gauge is but I also have faults with the power on/off control panel. When the vehicle has been running and is then turned off the control panel switches itself on applying power to the outside light and the Whale control panel. Every time I stop the outside light etc switches itself on. Elddis used to fit a panel with switches and an analog gauge. Even though I spent a lifetime in electronics this apparent need to fit cheap microprocessor controls to everything is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky malc Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Back again! Interestingly BCA s investigation showed that as the pump is loaded changing the duration and amplitude of the inductive spikes, a capacitor of 3000 micro farrads would be required for suppression! They did not mention and choke which would normally be expected!! Big capacitors discharging cause other problems! I think they have found a different solution. Enough from me. I will come back when my problems have been resolved. Malc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Malcolm, I think you have answered your own question :-) Mucky malc - 2019-02-21 8:48 AM .... this apparent need to fit cheap microprocessor controls to everything is beyond me. The cost of microprocessors these days can be many times less than the cost of a decent quality switch. Also given the extra functionality that a microprocessor brings, it is a bit of a no-brainer for the manufactures. There is nothing wrong with this approach provided that it is designed and installed propertly. As you say, the pump will generate a large back emf voltage when switched off. This pulse will have both a high voltage and fast rise time. The standard trick of adding a diode across the coil reduces the voltage, but does very little to reduce the rise time. I would make a guess that this fast pulse is magnetically or electrically coupling onto sensitive signals inside the control box causing these lock ups/ weird operation. For best effect, the diode should be mounted close to the actual pump and I would try a ferrite clamp on the wire to slow down its rise time. Obviously this should not be neccessary and if the equpiment is CE marked, it should (IMO) be tested to EN61000-4-4 (electrical fast transients). It should say in the manual (or the CE Declaration of Conformity) what standards the equipment complies with. Do you have this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky malc Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I totally agree with your technical observations. The van is brand new has lots of faults! It should not be down to me to solve these problems whilst under warranty even if it is within my ability. Not being at liberty to sort these problems myself is very frustrating as you can imagine! Interestingly any benefit of microprocessor control is totally lost as this cheap system does not even have leds to indicate that the pump is turned on, or the outside lights , or the control power etc !! I suspect it was designed by someone who has never used a motorhome! Hence my preference to a switch . At least you can see when the stupid thing is turned on! I like the van very much! Clever layout, not sorry (yet) that l bought it! I guess I always knew you get what you pay for! I am out on this topic Malc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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