Leisure battery recommendation

[dipsticks]

Thank you once more for explaining things to me Allan we are all very lucky to have yourself and others around here to help everybody out with such unbiased, valuable technical know how.

 

Two Yuasa L36-EFB seem to be the answer for my leisure power now, though I feel a bit guilty not choosing the Varta LFD90 having benefited from such good service from the existing Varta Semi Traction Batteries over the last 10 years.

 

The starter battery is proving a bit of an enigma and I would think this came about with things changing between the Mk6 and Mk7 Transit Vans. The original starter battery in my 2007 van is a Ford (of course) Silver Calcium 60AH 278x175x175 with a rather fancy clamp down bracket, holding both that and a Varta Semi Traction down. (The Varta is 190 high and 353 wide) In my case, to accommodate a higher or wider battery in the venue where the Ford battery sits would mean a lot of rewiring or/and bracket modifying work.

 

So the Varta LFD75 is too high and Derek’s Varta 85AH Silver Dynamic is too wide.

 

I called Alpha and they said the Bosch S3007 70AH Powerframe Grid was their recommendation the right size at 278x175x175.

 

I also found a Varta Silver Dynamic 574 402 075 , 74AH in the exact size but no one seems to stock it near me, though I still have Exeter Batteries to ask tomorrow.

 

I’ll have to decide whether to search out the correct sized Silver Dynamic or bite the bullet and modify the fancy bracket and fit the LFD75 Professional Dual Purpose Battery. Just to make things complicated there’s still the Bosch !!

 

You are correct Allan, I won’t miss the topping up one bit, at 3 score and ten, the seats aren’t getting any lighter, that’s for sure. The only benefit……. I think I could remove the seats with my eyes shut.

[spirou]

Out of curiosity, couldn't this yuasa EFB be used on starter duty as well?

[Derek Uzzell]

The Varta LFD90 is marketed as a "Dual Purpose” battery and its engine-starting capability is implied by a CCA datum of 800A.

 

https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-professional-dual-purpose/930-090-080

 

The Yuasa L36-EFB is marketed as a “Leisure and Marine” battery and has a quoted CCA of 850A

 

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/l26-91.html

 

so it should be similarly usable for engine-starting.

 

Allan has suggested that (assuming the battery dimensions are suitable) employing Varta LFD90 batteries for starting as well as for ‘leisure' duties has advantages for motorhome usage. Presumably it would also be the case that having in a motorhome a Yuasa L36-EFB as the starter battery and a Yuasa L36-EFB (or more than one Yuasa L36-EFB) as the leisure battery/batteries would be potentially advantageous.

[aandncaravan]

Dipsticks, Alpha are right the Bosch S3007 is a matching battery, but the Bosch S5 007 is a much, much better battery than the Bosch S3007, but is a bit dearer.

 

The LFD75 is better than both but as you say is slightly taller : 278 L x 175W and 190H, that is only 1/2" higher than the 175mm of the Bosch S5007, which incidentally, while better than most, isn't in the same class as the LFD75 as a motorhome Starter battery

The LFD75 is slightly cheaper as well.

Are you sure your set-up won't accommodate that extra 1/2" height?

 

Because a Motorhome often stands idle for so much of the time a motorhome Starter battery tends to discharge more deeply than a Car Starter battery. Something that conventional Starter batteries are not designed to do.

While the S5007 is outstanding and will tolerate deeper discharges than a conventional Starter it isn't as good 'under the bonnet' of a motorhome as a LFD75.

 

If it was me, I would get that seat off, measure up, and slacken the brackets by 1/2" to see if I could squeeze in a LFD.

1/2" is a pretty tiny space I would be surprised if the stays/bolts can't accommodate the difference?.

 

 

 

Spirou, yes the on paper the Dual Purpose Yuasa L36-EFB should make a great Starter battery, although we don't have the same longer term experience of it as we do the Varta LFD range.

 

Edit :

Derek, sorry, we must have been composing our posts at the same time, didn't mean to duplicate your answers.

 

[spirou]

I guessed as much. Not that it helps me any, it's not available anywhere outside the UK, not to mention nobody is willing to ship them out either.

[dipsticks]

Thank you Allan and Derek very much, Allan you have the patience of a Saint and Derek you must be the finest ‘thread searcher’ in the universe.

 

Right that’s it then I’ll take the challenge and get a 190mm high battery in there hell or high water. I think I can cut off the back end of the Ford clamp (over the starter battery) and make a new rear section as good as or better than the existing piece. All three holding down bolts on the Ford bracket are at an angle Allan, see pic, so can’t be raised easily 5mm let alone 15mm. The whole seat box is well packed, more than I would like already but to be fair the only remaining space is where it’s needed for the taller battery.

 

Happy Christmas everyone.

 

I’ll report back in the new year !

[Derek Uzzell]

I note that Yuasa markets a 278 x 175 x 175 starter battery

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx3100/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIif-w2-2P3wIVh7_tCh3DAQykEAAYASAAEgItJvD_BwE

 

that would be a like-for-like dimensional replacement for the original Ford-branded battery.

 

I know what I’d do - and it wouldn’t involve hacking the complex Ford hold-down clamp about just so a 190mm-high battery could be installed. As the original 278 x 175 x 175 Ford-branded battery has (presumably) been starting the Transit for 11 years, logically the relatively small physical size of the Ford battery has not been a problem. A Varta LFD75 may be the optimum choice, but is the work needed to fit it worth the effort when there are good-quality starter batteries available that could be installed immediately?

[dipsticks]

Thank you Derek, that makes a lot of common sense indeed. And the Yuasa YBX3200 at £72 is a real bargain compared to the Yuasa L36-EFB but in my case I have a couple of additional demands that I sometimes make on the battery set up.

 

As I understand it, the Ford dual battery system with the bi-stable relay, connects both the batteries together for the starter which in my case, with the additional battery under the passenger seat, in parallel, means all three together are supplying the starter ! As we are mostly off grid running the batteries from solar charging I have fitted a 6amp circuit breaker to join the starter battery to the other 2 batteries, this acts to limit the current passing between the batteries to 6 amps and also act’s as an on/off switch as well. Mounted on the outer side of the driver’s seat box it is easily accessible to operate. With this, when camping, and if the voltage of the 2 Varta’s gets a bit on the low side, usually in winter months, I can pinch a bit more from the starter battery without worrying about starting. Also I can switch it on to enable the solar controller to charge all three batteries when the van is laid up. I have added a timer system so I can set it up in order not to overcharge the batteries from solar when the van is laid up as well as easily reducing the absorption voltage by switch on the solar controller .

 

So for this reason the additional AH of the taller batteries is attractive to me, albeit costing £40 - £50 more. I took the seat out this morning and gave the situation several thick coats of thinking about, and reckon I can simply cut off the back half of the bracket and make a new bolt on/off piece from 3mm aluminium strip to hold down a battery taller by 15mm in an hour or so. So really since the original battery was just 60AH I can get this up to 100 for the money and effort. Since all the batteries will be replaced in one go and the fancy bracket will be out anyway I now see this as the way to go.

 

I know the battery experts will tell me it’s all wrong to mix up batteries when charging them, but this is a relatively infrequent occurrence, and for 11 years I have never had a flat battery or any trouble at all.

 

I’m very grateful to Derek and Allan for their ideas and advice on this subject.

 

[aandncaravan]

I am not sure the YBX3100 is a high enough quality battery for a Transit that may still have the Smart Alternator putting out 15 volts?

It does not use the Silver construction that is normally adopted to tolerate the higher charge voltages, and I am guessing that is why it is so much cheaper than the Bosch S5 Silver and Varta LFD75 versions £94. talked about earlier in the thread. The Bosch and Varta Silver are comparable in this respect to the standard Ford Silver battery, all accommodating higher charging voltages.

 

 

If it was me, in light of the new revelation of the particular way in which you operate the vehicle, I would only fit Silver technology dual purpose LFD batteries as a Transit's Starter battery, Aux battery and second Aux.

Although the AH sizes may not all be the same, at least by using LFD75 and LFD90 batteries through out, all the voltages are matched at close to 13.0v.

The L36-EFB batteries are a lower 12.8v'ish, so you might end up with unwanted current flow between the batteries.

.

If you can adapt the battery space to take a Varta LFD90 as the Starter battery, so they are all equal size, that would be better still.

 

 

[dipsticks]

I asked the converter about the smart charging on the Transit Allan but they didn’t know anything about it so I can only assume its still working. I don’t know how to check it myself ; I have seen it charging at 14.5v but can’t remember seeing 15.0 not to say that it doesn’t though.

 

I can see the advantage of having 3 x Varta LFD 90’s but it would be a real squeeze maybe even a squeeze to far ! I would have to dump my Nasa Monitor for sure as there would definitely be nowhere for the shunt to go.

 

I don’t suppose 2 x Yuasa L36-EFB and 1 x Yuasa L28-EFB would make any difference and I wouldn’t know if they are up to the smart charging anyway.

 

I’m starting to think the best way forward is to take both the drivers side batteries out and see what getting one of the old (ready to dump) Varta Semi Traction batteries 353 x 175 x 190 into the venue of the old (existing) starter battery, looks like. There’s so much wiring around it, the conversion stuff isn’t too tidy really either and I expect all the wires/cables etc will be a bit short for messing with. I have added 3 relays myself at the back end, at least they have plenty of cable length, I can only try, it will be an interesting exercise and might be useful to someone else in future too if it works out.

 

Thanks again.

 

[aandncaravan]

Most motorhome transits are ordered from Ford as such, with the Smart charging disabled in the ECU but I thought I read somewhere you were seeing 14.8v which along with having to top up the Hobbies 3 times a year does suggest a higher charging voltage than ideal from somewhere?

 

The test results we have for the Yuasa L36-EFB where done at a charging voltage of 16v, yet it still achieved over 230 cycles. I would therefore suggest your idea of a L28-EFB for the Starter might be a very good one. It does look a lot of work to squeeze in a 353 x 175 x 190 battery.

 

 

On the subject of a Varta LFD75, versus the Bosch S5, I have found this :

 

"Where there is space for batteries with a height of 190 mm, these should be retrofitted instead of batteries with a height of 175 mm.

Batteries with this extra 15 mm tend to have a greater acid volume, which results in superior charge acceptance".

 

I am researching AGM battery charging for the article to MMM and found the above on the Banner website. I don't know if this is specific to Banner batteries, but I would imagine any increase in height would be good, if only from the perspective of improved Plate cooling and capacity?

 

 

[dipsticks]

You are correct I did mention 14.8v Allan but I’m sure I was wrong now. The Nasa display is behind me and I can’t see it when driving so I am forever asking my wife what it’s saying after being off grid for a while, she says it mostly reads 13.8 not 14.8. I just started it up having drained the batteries somewhat with a headlamp bulb and it reads 14.5v regardless of engine speed. Studying the Ford Transit Forum it seems to be that 14.5 is the maximum and that’s what it should be, so whether it’s a smart charging system or not, I don’t really know. Reading on that Forum as well as the Bem Ford Etis download there are masses of information on the charging subject that’s all way above my ability to understand. It does look as though Ford will supply a bigger battery if ordered for a new vehicle, so, presumably the seat box will be the same.

 

I have given the drivers seat battery box several more coats of looking at and I feel quite optimistic that I can get 2 x 353x175x190 batteries in there with a bit of luck so either 3 x LFD90’s or 3 x L36-EFB’s altogether. Seemingly the latter will be best with slightly more AH and maybe a longer lifespan ? The bracket I made years ago for the Nasa Shunt, I think, can be reversed and take much less space for the larger battery to fit in. Maybe a few bits of relocating and re-wiring will make it practical as well as tidier.

 

Fingers crossed !

 

[RMP]

Thank you, A&N, for keeping me on the right track. I will avoid wasting my money on the wrong charger, and order the Yuasa l36 efb battery Alpha.