aandncaravan Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 NickVanBitz - 2019-07-19 10:48 AM Ok, thus not to get too OFF TOPIC here (which I'm equally responsible of and we seem to be, as the OP was referring to alarms and not the very latest electronics that are being used in 2019 M/Homes as an example), I'm going to make this short seeing as I believed and advised that I am being trolled somewhat. It seems that you are trying to educate me in how habitation electrics work, it's fine I know how they work, nor need educating about them. Everything that you have described about certain systems is correct and in some cases current, which I am not disputing. We can agree to disagree about leisure battery charging, BUT that's going off topic (Again!!!). May I ask when was the last time you worked on the very latest 2019 Mercedes Sprinter Chassis (again just an example, don't want you thinking I'm picking on Mercedes) and fitted a Thatcham Cat 1 alarm designed by you (as a designer/manufacturer), with remote immobilisation and a monitored tracking system? When you are presented with "first of a kind" situation (which was in fact late 2018 on a self-build) such as a vehicle that has a very complex DC/Can-Bus network, things have to be done in a way so that various systems do not conflict with each other, such as the "Habitation Mode" (Not Habitation as in the Motorhome Part - better get that cleared up quick) and "Standby Mode" adopted on the new Sprinters electrics. Like everything that is rolling out from the manufacturers, things aren't as easy to just slap something in, take power from there etc, as vehicle's systems are far more complexed than they have ever been before and the upmost care has to be taken. Our Strikeback alarms are Thatcham evaluated and cannot be fitted by anyone but us (we ceased to have fitting centres), so to describe us as just "fitters" isn't the case. We design and install our product, so we are far from just "installers", which I will say that's a personal pop at me/us, seeing as most of your posting seems to suggest. I don't agree with the statement about the lack of modular use and also the lack of use of VE-Bus, DC and Can-Bus being used in motorcaravans, I have one in the shop as we speak. This van is covered in independent "Modules" that are responsible for various equipment (Habitation equipment including the Factory fitted Lithium, control "Modules" for various systems and a mix of DC, Can-Bus and Ve-Bus driven systems that are responsible for various habitation and chassis electrics). I was merely quoting Autosleeper as an example of the lengths builders have gone to make systems work. It was neither a direct attack on them or an insult to the builder, why did you make it sound like I was attacking them so??!! I'm not prepared to continue to discuss Battery charging methods and concepts, as again it's going "OFF TOPIC", but will happily engage in conversation should such a post come up. NickVanBitz, I am sorry you feel I am Trolling you, but you were the one who came on here to contradict my advice to wire the Alarm from the Habitation Power Controller with a lie. You wrote, "In order to make it Thatcham approved alarm system, the security product has to be connected to the Starter Battery electrics". This was subsequently proved to be untrue, Thatcham have since said it can be wired to any battery in the vehicle. So you then changed argument completely and blew up an irrelevant smokescreen on CANbus. All I have done is tried to argue that CANbus is irrelevant to taking alarm power from the habitation battery, contrary to your claims that it will cause 'conflicts'. Your assertion that motorhome owners can't just connect any old device to the habitation battery flies in the face of all those who have fitted dual battery solar regulators to both Starter and Habitation battery, not to mention any manner of other gizmos to vehicles with CANbus electrics We have moved a Strikeback Alarm from being powered by the Vehicle CANbus electrics and moved it's supply to the Sargent EC700 'Alarm' power point specifically provided by the manufacturer for such a purpose. There were no issues or conflicts at all. We have also moved various Alarm power supplies, including the Cobra mentioned above, to be powered from the Habitation battery, again without any issues whatever. All we did was move the power supply for the Alarm to the habitation battery supply, Simples. You keep coming back to 'the latest' vehicles and complications, but what about all the thousands (maybe 100's?) of Alarms that installers around the country wired up inappropriately prior to Stop/Start when they could have gone to the habitation battery and not needed a device to keep the Starter battery topped up? As for me working on a 2019 vehicle, you are fully aware that I was declared terminally ill with less than 6 months to live back in July 2018. I don't have any financial interests at all in this subject, so my advice is unbiased. As for Alternator charging a battery bank, the Alternator has no idea what is on the end of the wire asking for power. It could be the Headlights or a battery that needs charging. An Alternator responds to demand, when you turn the Fan to full, it increases output accordingly. If any device or battery asks for power, the Alternator supplies it. The fact the Starter battery might be charged at this point but the Habitation batteries only half charged makes no difference, it will supply what is asked by whatever is on the wire. It has no sensing to tell it the Starter battery is charged, so carries on supplying current to the Hab batteries. Be gracious and admit you didn't understand how it worked, rather than say it 'is off topic'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickVanBitz Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-07-19 2:33 PM NickVanBitz, I am sorry you feel I am Trolling you, but you were the one who came on here to contradict my advice to wire the Alarm from the Habitation Power Controller with a lie. You wrote, "In order to make it Thatcham approved alarm system, the security product has to be connected to the Starter Battery electrics". This was subsequently proved to be untrue, Thatcham have since said it can be wired to any battery in the vehicle. So you then changed argument completely and blew up an irrelevant smokescreen on CANbus. All I have done is just gone on to argue that CANbus is irrelevant to taking alarm power from the habitation battery, contrary to your claims that it will cause 'conflicts'. Your assertion that motorhome owners can't just connect any old device to the habitation battery flies in the face of all those who have fitted dual battery solar regulators to both Starter and Habitation battery, not to mention any manner of other gizmos to vehicles with CANbus electrics We have moved a Strikeback Alarm from being powered by the Vehicle CANbus electrics and moved it's supply to the Sargent EC700 'Alarm' power point specifically provided by the manufacturer for such a purpose. There were no issues or conflicts at all. We have also moved various Alarm power supplies, including the Cobra mentioned above, to be powered from the Habitation battery, again without any issues whatever. All we have done is move the power supply for the Alarm to the habitation battery supply. You keep coming back to 'the latest' vehicles and complications, but what about all the thousands (maybe 100's?) of Alarms that installers around the country wired up inappropriately prior to Stop/Start when they could have gone to the habitation battery and not needed a device to keep the Starter battery topped up? As for me working on a 2019 vehicle, you are fully aware that I was declared terminally ill with 3 - 6 months to live back in July 2018. I don't have any financial interests at all in this subject, so the advice is unbiased. Firstly I haven't a clue who you are, so to make any assumption that I know whom you are that I am aware of any medical condition you have is unfounded and I am truly sorry if your diagnosis has remained unchanged. I have just joined here so to assume that I know you and any past issues/grudges you have with Van Bitz (which by your hostile nature, I would say there has been some) Secondly I am unable to publish any literature stating my knowledge of where connections are to be taken, I am going by 2019 paperwork which has seen many recent changes. Thirdly, taking power off an engine battery isn't a problem, more than the equipment that runs from it (Body computers/engine management/lighting/ABS and the list goes on). The upmost care must be taken when working with vehicles, thus not to cause issues with existing systems nor compromise their operation. In addition going back to connecting to the Sargent, locating and accessing a leisure battery bank/Sargent Panel would have been the last place I would go for one simple reason, which has clearly been identified by some of the M/Homes that sadly have been stolen. Access to these systems are far easier in a motorhome, compared to a majority of engine batteries now fitted below access panels under the floor that are screwed/bolted down, unlike the old days of an engine battery located under the bonnet. Knowledge of the Factory Fit Sargent connections is known by thieves, as many a time it has been reported that the Sargent units have been found hanging out, Tracking units that have been fitted by the manufacturers have been found in hedges/ditches, where there has been no creativity in hiding such equipment nor where the power has been taken from. As leisure batteries in the main are under bench seats in trap doors, again this makes them equally as easy to disconnect power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger55 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hi RFC7 Like you I live in Devon, have you spoken with Vanblitz yet, be interested in what they advise. I am thinking of of popping up to visit them. Cheers Smudger55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 NickVanBitz - 2019-07-19 5:03 PM aandncaravan - 2019-07-19 2:33 PM Firstly I haven't a clue who you are, so to make any assumption that I know whom you are that I am aware of any medical condition you have is unfounded and I am truly sorry if your diagnosis has remained unchanged. I have just joined here so to assume that I know you and any past issues/grudges you have with Van Bitz (which by your hostile nature, I would say there has been some) Secondly I am unable to publish any literature stating my knowledge of where connections are to be taken, I am going by 2019 paperwork which has seen many recent changes. Thirdly, taking power off an engine battery isn't a problem, more than the equipment that runs from it (Body computers/engine management/lighting/ABS and the list goes on). The upmost care must be taken when working with vehicles, thus not to cause issues with existing systems nor compromise their operation. In addition going back to connecting to the Sargent, locating and accessing a leisure battery bank/Sargent Panel would have been the last place I would go for one simple reason, which has clearly been identified by some of the M/Homes that sadly have been stolen. Access to these systems are far easier in a motorhome, compared to a majority of engine batteries now fitted below access panels under the floor that are screwed/bolted down, unlike the old days of an engine battery located under the bonnet. Knowledge of the Factory Fit Sargent connections is known by thieves, as many a time it has been reported that the Sargent units have been found hanging out, Tracking units that have been fitted by the manufacturers have been found in hedges/ditches, where there has been no creativity in hiding such equipment nor where the power has been taken from. As leisure batteries in the main are under bench seats in trap doors, again this makes them equally as easy to disconnect power. Apologies, I thought you might have heard. So having proved the Strikeback and various other Alarms can be run from the habitation battery electrics without any need for a an additional device to 'top up the Starter battery', you now come up with a completely new, 3rd argument, to defend your installation practises. When I read it, the phrase, "clutching at straws" came to mind. It also contradicts a statement you made earlier in the thread where you say, "whilst I agree that the leisure battery bank is a good source of power, there will be conflictions between the 2 systems". It isn't me trolling you, you are doing that yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Forgive me if I've got this wrong but I thought this was a forum to offer help and advice not bitchiness, maybe I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster30 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 But it is also about receiving the correct advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-07-20 6:00 PM Forgive me if I've got this wrong but I thought this was a forum to offer help and advice not bitchiness, maybe I'm wrong. Totally agree. This is a bitch fest which belongs on chatterbox. They will never agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickVanBitz Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-07-20 6:00 PM Forgive me if I've got this wrong but I thought this was a forum to offer help and advice not bitchiness, maybe I'm wrong. I couldn't agree more @stevec176. I have merely joined to offer advise on security of which the company I work for has been specialists of for over 25 years. I didn't ask to have such a frosty welcome, as you can see I'm new to this forum. I have learned over the weekend that there is history between aandn & my director and can only assume that this would explain my warm welcome :-( . I will however offer advice to anyone that wants to read it and continue to support the forum...………...for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 OK - I believe that’s enough, so I have frozen this thread. If anybody wishes to challenge that decision, take it up with the Forum Administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel the editor Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I agree the thread started usefully. Let's leave it frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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