It Really Really Was Made Perfectly Clear Wasn't It

[Birdbrain]

Brian Kirby - 2019-07-22 1:08 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2019-07-20 4:04 PM....................note I said some unlike you and your "why are the people" because that suggests everyone doesnt it ???

No, any more than "the people voted to the leave the EU" means that everyone voted, or voted for Brexit. I'm talking about the areas where people are sufficiently dissatisfied with their lives that they voted Brexit in the hope of improving them. They are a majority, are they not. You say you know "up there", so why such widespread dissatisfaction?

 

You need to visit some of the towns and cities of the north and see the changes in Liverpool , leeds , Manchester , Hull etc , its difficult I know to comprehend the change as leafy Sussex has always been leafy Sussex but give it a try ...

You are assuming I haven't. :-) It's obvious they now look different, but that doesn't explain continuing the dissatisfaction, does it?

 

As for the "paid well enough" jobs you need to look at my home town where the dirty mills have all shut and all those supposed well paid jobs have gone to be replaced by shopping centre jobs , industrial parks jobs , university jobs , hospitality etc etc ... Regards

So, not so well paid. So is it not, as I said, that the jobs which are available and not fulfilling people's needs? But why is that? It has nothing to do with leafiness, has it?

 

Brian ... The dissatisfaction certainly isnt because of the 80s recession from which we have according to you never recovered ... I said I know up ere , I didn't say I know everyone up ere and their own personal reasons for voting to leave The EU did I ???

[Brian Kirby]

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 3:24 PM...………………..Brian ... The dissatisfaction certainly isnt because of the 80s recession from which we have according to you never recovered ... I said I know up ere , I didn't say I know everyone up ere and their own personal reasons for voting to leave The EU did I ???

But, the economic data show that areas (I suppose I have to point out that I'm referring to those areas still affected! :-)) which suffered de-industrialisation in the 1980's, remain among the most deprived areas in the UK. They show that those areas have still not recovered economically, even though other areas had - at least up to 2008. (And BTW, what I said is that in many respects we haven't recovered from the 1980's recession, not that the UK hasn't.) That's what I'm inviting you to explain. Why this long shadow?

 

My point remains that adding a Brexit recession to the threatening global recession will increase the depth of recession, which, as I said above, is what happened in the 1980's, and is what those remaining depressed, ex-industrial areas, are still suffering from. The question is, why did that happen?

[Birdbrain]

Brian Kirby - 2019-07-22 4:51 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 3:24 PM...………………..Brian ... The dissatisfaction certainly isnt because of the 80s recession from which we have according to you never recovered ... I said I know up ere , I didn't say I know everyone up ere and their own personal reasons for voting to leave The EU did I ???

But, the economic data show that areas (I suppose I have to point out that I'm referring to those areas still affected! :-)) which suffered de-industrialisation in the 1980's, remain among the most deprived areas in the UK. They show that those areas have still not recovered economically, even though other areas had - at least up to 2008. (And BTW, what I said is that in many respects we haven't recovered from the 1980's recession, not that the UK hasn't.) That's what I'm inviting you to explain. Why this long shadow?

 

My point remains that adding a Brexit recession to the threatening global recession will increase the depth of recession, which, as I said above, is what happened in the 1980's, and is what those remaining depressed, ex-industrial areas, are still suffering from. The question is, why did that happen?

 

Those areas which suffered de-industrialisation in the 80s were deprived areas long before the 80s Brian ... Check your history ... My home town Huddersfield as I have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore is one of those old deprived mill towns whacked in the 80s through mill closure ... Now I remember the 80s quite well and the mill closures as my missus family remembers pit closures but you who prolly has never visited Huddersfield/Pontefract/Wakefield etc wont know what those places were like then compared to now ... I said previously human nature makes many of us never satisfied with what we have but I can tell you now if you asked those same dissatisfied dirty northern types if they preferred what they have now compared to the early 80s then the answer would be now but many would still feel dissatisfied when looking at what others have ... Human nature , its a wonderful thing princess

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 6:19 PM...............….Those areas which suffered de-industrialisation in the 80s were deprived areas long before the 80s Brian ... Check your history ... My home town Huddersfield as I have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore is one of those old deprived mill towns whacked in the 80s through mill closure ... Now I remember the 80s quite well and the mill closures as my missus family remembers pit closures but you who prolly has never visited Huddersfield/Pontefract/Wakefield etc wont know what those places were like then compared to now ... I said previously human nature makes many of us never satisfied with what we have but I can tell you now if you asked those same dissatisfied dirty northern types if they preferred what they have now compared to the early 80s then the answer would be now but many would still feel dissatisfied when looking at what others have ... Human nature , its a wonderful thing princess

I'm aware of the history, and I'm not ignoring what you are saying about Huddersfield, but Huddersfield is not one of the areas that show high dissatisfaction. As I'm sure you know, Huddersfield voted pretty well in line with the whole of the UK in the referendum.

 

But, human nature is common to us all, given which it seems odd that the human tendency to envy those who are better off should dog some areas more than others - which is why I was interested in the underlying reason the areas which registered the highest Brexit votes, which seem also to coincide with those remaining deprived and having been de-industrialised, should still feel left behind. If they've now been rejuvenated as you suggest, it seems even odder.

[Birdbrain]

Brian Kirby - 2019-07-22 6:56 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 6:19 PM...............….Those areas which suffered de-industrialisation in the 80s were deprived areas long before the 80s Brian ... Check your history ... My home town Huddersfield as I have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore is one of those old deprived mill towns whacked in the 80s through mill closure ... Now I remember the 80s quite well and the mill closures as my missus family remembers pit closures but you who prolly has never visited Huddersfield/Pontefract/Wakefield etc wont know what those places were like then compared to now ... I said previously human nature makes many of us never satisfied with what we have but I can tell you now if you asked those same dissatisfied dirty northern types if they preferred what they have now compared to the early 80s then the answer would be now but many would still feel dissatisfied when looking at what others have ... Human nature , its a wonderful thing princess

I'm aware of the history, and I'm not ignoring what you are saying about Huddersfield, but Huddersfield is not one of the areas that show high dissatisfaction. As I'm sure you know, Huddersfield voted pretty well in line with the whole of the UK in the referendum.

 

But, human nature is common to us all, given which it seems odd that the human tendency to envy those who are better off should dog some areas more than others - which is why I was interested in the underlying reason the areas which registered the highest Brexit votes, which seem also to coincide with those remaining deprived and having been de-industrialised, should still feel left behind. If they've now been rejuvenated as you suggest, it seems even odder.

 

Kirklees which Huddersfield comes under did vote leave , nearly 55% and Huddersfield like mostly all of Kirklees is old industrial areas ... Rejuvenating an area , what does that mean ??? Some areas wouldnt take much to rejuvenate would they as they simply couldn't get any worse ??? Take one area in Huddersfield called Sheepridge ... Within Sheepridge they have an old council estate that in the 80s and 90s had millions pumped into it and in the early 60s they had a similar injection of cash (obviously the cost was less in the 60s) on the same estate as my old man worked on the renovations in the 60s ... Now if you asked those folk if they were satisfied with their lot then I am sure they would say no as in Huddersfield even with the millions pumped in they are still living in the absolute pits of Huddersfield ... Now I like you dont know if they blame the EU for their dissatisfaction , to be fair how could they ??? ... Brexit was decided on many issues Brian as you know with uncomfortably for some immigration being the numero uno issue not where one lives

[Bulletguy]

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 7:25 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2019-07-22 6:56 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 6:19 PM...............….Those areas which suffered de-industrialisation in the 80s were deprived areas long before the 80s Brian ... Check your history ... My home town Huddersfield as I have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore is one of those old deprived mill towns whacked in the 80s through mill closure ... Now I remember the 80s quite well and the mill closures as my missus family remembers pit closures but you who prolly has never visited Huddersfield/Pontefract/Wakefield etc wont know what those places were like then compared to now ... I said previously human nature makes many of us never satisfied with what we have but I can tell you now if you asked those same dissatisfied dirty northern types if they preferred what they have now compared to the early 80s then the answer would be now but many would still feel dissatisfied when looking at what others have ... Human nature , its a wonderful thing princess

I'm aware of the history, and I'm not ignoring what you are saying about Huddersfield, but Huddersfield is not one of the areas that show high dissatisfaction. As I'm sure you know, Huddersfield voted pretty well in line with the whole of the UK in the referendum.

 

But, human nature is common to us all, given which it seems odd that the human tendency to envy those who are better off should dog some areas more than others - which is why I was interested in the underlying reason the areas which registered the highest Brexit votes, which seem also to coincide with those remaining deprived and having been de-industrialised, should still feel left behind. If they've now been rejuvenated as you suggest, it seems even odder.

Brexit was decided on many issues Brian as you know with uncomfortably for some immigration being the numero uno issue not where one lives

But since early April you "left to live in France" as err......an immigrant.

[Brian Kirby]

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 7:25 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2019-07-22 6:56 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2019-07-22 6:19 PM...............….Those areas which suffered de-industrialisation in the 80s were deprived areas long before the 80s Brian ... Check your history ... My home town Huddersfield as I have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore is one of those old deprived mill towns whacked in the 80s through mill closure ... Now I remember the 80s quite well and the mill closures as my missus family remembers pit closures but you who prolly has never visited Huddersfield/Pontefract/Wakefield etc wont know what those places were like then compared to now ... I said previously human nature makes many of us never satisfied with what we have but I can tell you now if you asked those same dissatisfied dirty northern types if they preferred what they have now compared to the early 80s then the answer would be now but many would still feel dissatisfied when looking at what others have ... Human nature , its a wonderful thing princess

I'm aware of the history, and I'm not ignoring what you are saying about Huddersfield, but Huddersfield is not one of the areas that show high dissatisfaction. As I'm sure you know, Huddersfield voted pretty well in line with the whole of the UK in the referendum.

 

But, human nature is common to us all, given which it seems odd that the human tendency to envy those who are better off should dog some areas more than others - which is why I was interested in the underlying reason the areas which registered the highest Brexit votes, which seem also to coincide with those remaining deprived and having been de-industrialised, should still feel left behind. If they've now been rejuvenated as you suggest, it seems even odder.

 

Kirklees which Huddersfield comes under did vote leave , nearly 55% and Huddersfield like mostly all of Kirklees is old industrial areas ... Rejuvenating an area , what does that mean ??? Some areas wouldnt take much to rejuvenate would they as they simply couldn't get any worse ??? Take one area in Huddersfield called Sheepridge ... Within Sheepridge they have an old council estate that in the 80s and 90s had millions pumped into it and in the early 60s they had a similar injection of cash (obviously the cost was less in the 60s) on the same estate as my old man worked on the renovations in the 60s ... Now if you asked those folk if they were satisfied with their lot then I am sure they would say no as in Huddersfield even with the millions pumped in they are still living in the absolute pits of Huddersfield ... Now I like you dont know if they blame the EU for their dissatisfaction , to be fair how could they ??? ... Brexit was decided on many issues Brian as you know with uncomfortably for some immigration being the numero uno issue not where one lives

What I meant by rejuvenation was more than just doing up the buildings. To put life back into a deprived area requires more than a change of wallpaper, it requires rewarding jobs, with rewarding pay, so that people have more control over where they live. A lot of our local council housing, which is generally no worse than depressing, has been sold off. Those who bought it seem reasonably satisfied, but I'm assuming the areas you are referring to do not have many, if any, private owners, and those living there don't have the opportunity to move elsewhere.

 

Yes, immigration was cited by many as the reason for wanting out of the EU, but what they seem to have been blaming was not the result of EU regulations, but the result of the Blair, and subsequent, governments encouraging immigration from the new eastern European members of the EU, when all the other EU members imposed permitted migration restraints. Result? Too many, too fast, with the inevitable resentments.

 

Even then, roughly half of UK immigrants come from outside the UK, and that changed very little throughout that time. So, even though some EU migration was probably inevitable, the numbers could have been dramatically reduced and, as non-EU immigration was never subject to EU control, their number could have been reduced to compensate.

 

So, why did UK governments continue allowing migrants in, while saying they were trying to impose controls? More importantly, why have none of those responsible explained to the UK population why they did that? Turkeys and Christmas?