Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-12-15 4:19 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-15 3:55 PM................. Hmmm :-| ....... Why are so many citizens of non Shengen Zone........Non EU countries able to spend more than 90 days in Spain? :-S ......... Surely they've all used a EU border post to enter with their Russian registered's 4x4 BMW and Merc's? :-S ....... Plus surely they should have by now re-plaited their vehicles? ;-) ......... Well, as you're much closer to Spain and the Russians then we are, Dave, why not ask around and find out? It would be interesting to know. It's about 1,200 miles as the crow flies from the border of Belarus to the Spanish border, so it's not exactly an overnight flit! :-) BTW, looking at the Leiden University law school link, I have a feeling that "residencia" ? you obtained (which I think was probably granted under the procedure for EU citizens), will become invalid at the point the UK legally leaves the EU on 31 Jan 2020. After that date you'll need to get something similar under the procedure for long-term residency for third countries - which may be what your Russian mates have been doing. I haven't obtained "residencia"? :-S .......... I got a official copy of my NIE number from the Benidorm plod, that I had previously to claim my share of the family inheritance from my Dad who died out here like my Mum :-| ........ I needed that to get the Padron.........that I needed to put my £901 ebay bargain banger on Spanish plates :D ......... Er in doors now has a NIE number just in case the Spanish decide us British Snowbirds need to be official ;-) ........ I'm just hedging my bets........given I have some experience of Spanish bureaucracy 8-) ........ PS ......I cant get Residencia as a 3rd country citizen ;-) ...... Coz we haven't left yet (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 johnfromnorfolk - 2019-12-14 10:21 PM Thanks for explaining that bulletguy. The naivety of some people is amazing. Was talking to a chap in a harbour on Corsica.. He (a Brexiteer) and his wife had sailed their boat from the U.K. to the island on their way to Greece. I mentioned that his two year trip could hit problems with the 90 day rule after Brexit. He arrogantly said waving his arms "These people won't want to see the back of us". He was the only Brit in a harbour full of boats from Germany, France, Holland etc. He admitted that apart from a beer in one bar he had spent little in the town. I think some folk are in for a shock. Their arrogance is staggering. Colonialists who think we still have an Empire. Just listen to how this lot living in Spain see themselves. They don't like the term immigrant, which they are, and prefer "expat". The two top comments sum up their attitude. https://tinyurl.com/yxysqwux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 flyboyprowler - 2019-12-15 9:45 AM The deal has yet to be decided, but I agree, that a non EU citizen will only be able to spend the maximum of 90 days in 180, and that 180 days will start the day the EU is entered. However, What I am not sure about is that even a residency in any EU country, with the penalties already mentioned, plus frozen state pensions, would entitle the holder of a UK passport free travel in the EU, and that the standard penalties would apply to those that flount the rules. Depends if they choose to become citizens of whatever country they've decided to live, they wouldn't be able to retain their UK passport. Brit immigrants living in Spain want dual citizenship to try and hang on to their UK passport. https://www.thelocal.es/20190108/brits-in-spain-hope-government-could-open-up-to-dual-citizenship-legislation-in-2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 5:24 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-15 9:45 AM The deal has yet to be decided, but I agree, that a non EU citizen will only be able to spend the maximum of 90 days in 180, and that 180 days will start the day the EU is entered. However, What I am not sure about is that even a residency in any EU country, with the penalties already mentioned, plus frozen state pensions, would entitle the holder of a UK passport free travel in the EU, and that the standard penalties would apply to those that flount the rules. Depends if they choose to become citizens of whatever country they've decided to live, they wouldn't be able to retain their UK passport. Brit immigrants living in Spain want dual citizenship to try and hang on to their UK passport. https://www.thelocal.es/20190108/brits-in-spain-hope-government-could-open-up-to-dual-citizenship-legislation-in-2019 How the hell would know anything about Spain Bullet? ;-) ....... Seeing as you high tailed it out of Spain when you got robbed by French folk not long after you passed the border *-) ........ If I recall correctly??? >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-12-15 6:01 PM Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 5:24 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-15 9:45 AM The deal has yet to be decided, but I agree, that a non EU citizen will only be able to spend the maximum of 90 days in 180, and that 180 days will start the day the EU is entered. However, What I am not sure about is that even a residency in any EU country, with the penalties already mentioned, plus frozen state pensions, would entitle the holder of a UK passport free travel in the EU, and that the standard penalties would apply to those that flount the rules. Depends if they choose to become citizens of whatever country they've decided to live, they wouldn't be able to retain their UK passport. Brit immigrants living in Spain want dual citizenship to try and hang on to their UK passport. https://www.thelocal.es/20190108/brits-in-spain-hope-government-could-open-up-to-dual-citizenship-legislation-in-2019 How the hell would know anything about Spain Bullet? ;-) ....... Why not read the posted links on this thread instead of making silly comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 6:39 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-15 6:01 PM Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 5:24 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-15 9:45 AM The deal has yet to be decided, but I agree, that a non EU citizen will only be able to spend the maximum of 90 days in 180, and that 180 days will start the day the EU is entered. However, What I am not sure about is that even a residency in any EU country, with the penalties already mentioned, plus frozen state pensions, would entitle the holder of a UK passport free travel in the EU, and that the standard penalties would apply to those that flount the rules. Depends if they choose to become citizens of whatever country they've decided to live, they wouldn't be able to retain their UK passport. Brit immigrants living in Spain want dual citizenship to try and hang on to their UK passport. https://www.thelocal.es/20190108/brits-in-spain-hope-government-could-open-up-to-dual-citizenship-legislation-in-2019 How the hell would know anything about Spain Bullet? ;-) ....... Why not read the posted links on this thread instead of making silly comments? Silly comments? :-S ........ What do you know of Spanish bureaucracy apart from reporting your robbery to the local plod? ;-) ........ Which wasn't very satisfactory if I recall correctly> :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 A link to the petition you referred to in your other postings is here http://www.bearder.eu/save_our_eu_citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 You are right, Brian, even Brits who are resident in, say, Portugal will have to respect the 90 day rule unless they have dual citizenship of another EU country. If they have they and their spouse may travel freely in the Schengen area.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 6:39 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-15 6:01 PM Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 5:24 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-15 9:45 AM The deal has yet to be decided, but I agree, that a non EU citizen will only be able to spend the maximum of 90 days in 180, and that 180 days will start the day the EU is entered. However, What I am not sure about is that even a residency in any EU country, with the penalties already mentioned, plus frozen state pensions, would entitle the holder of a UK passport free travel in the EU, and that the standard penalties would apply to those that flount the rules. Depends if they choose to become citizens of whatever country they've decided to live, they wouldn't be able to retain their UK passport. Brit immigrants living in Spain want dual citizenship to try and hang on to their UK passport. https://www.thelocal.es/20190108/brits-in-spain-hope-government-could-open-up-to-dual-citizenship-legislation-in-2019 How the hell would know anything about Spain Bullet? ;-) ....... Why not read the posted links on this thread instead of making silly comments? Brits in Portugal and other EU countries can have dual citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I've been playing around with this calculator: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/home/visa-calculator/calculator.htm while trying to understand how this regulation works, and I'm puzzled (not for the first time on this issue! :-)). I have "dummied" a spring trip for next year starting on 01/04/20 and ending 23/06/20, 84 days total duration. If, to test how long an autumn trip might be permitted, I then enter in the "Date of entry/Control" box the date 01/09/20 and click the "Planning" radio button, I get: A) Start of 90 days period: 04/06/20 Start of 180 days period: 06/03/20 The stay may be authorised for up to: 6 day(s) and if I Click the "Control" radio button I get B) No overstay in the registration period. Possible stay until 06/09/20 So far so good. :-) So, I then progressively advanced the date in the "Date of entry/Control" box, from 01/09/20 to 21/09/20, and got day by day advances in the start of the 90 day, and 180 day, periods until I got this: C) Start of 90 days period: 24/06/20 Start of 180 days period: 26/03/20 The stay may be authorised for up to: 6 day(s), As can be seen above the start of the 90 days period is now 24/06/20, the day after the dummy trip ended. But when I advanced the Date of entry/Control by one more day, to 22/09/20, I got this: D) Start of 90 days period: 25/06/20 Start of 180 days period: 27/03/20 The stay may be authorised for up to: 90 day(s) and using the "Control" radio button, I got this: E) No overstay in the registration period. Possible stay until 20/12/20 This seems to reflect the fact that the 90 day period preceding the 22/09/20 date of entry has now passed the date on which the "dummy" trip ended, erasing the details of that trip for the purposes of the 180 day period, and releasing a new 90 day period. But, from the "Short stay Schengen calculator user manual" I gain the impression that using the "Control" radio button replicates what an Immigration officer would see were my duration of stay to be challenged. This seems to imply that I would remain legal throughout the period from 01/09/20 to 22/09/20 even though the calculator suggests that, at 01/09/20 I had only 6 days of stay possible. OTOH, this seems illogical, and I assume that in reality when the passport was scanned on entry, the ETIAS system would record a permitted exit date of 07/09/20 (possibly +/- 1 day) so that exit after that date would result in an overstay penalty. But, it also suggests that if one remains outside Schengen for 90 days a new 90 day period begins, even if the "tail" of a previous trip remains within the period of 180 days before entering for the second trip. Assuming that the above makes sense (misplaced assumption? :-)), do others concur, or have I got this all round my neck - again! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 12:37 PM You are right, Brian, even Brits who are resident in, say, Portugal will have to respect the 90 day rule unless they have dual citizenship of another EU country. If they have they and their spouse may travel freely in the Schengen area.. I'm not sure this is the whole story on this. The "USER MANUAL FOR THE SHORT-STAY "SCHENGEN" CALCULATOR" says: "Please note that periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa (D-type visa) shall not be taken into account in the calculation. Accordingly, the dates of the entries and exits (if any) related to residence in a particular Schengen State shall not be inserted". This suggests that if the "third country national" has applied for, and been granted, a residence permit or long stay visa for that EU state, stays in that state do not count towards the 90 days Schengen visa limit, but are in addition to them. This may be of interest to Ted (weldted) since, as he owns property in France, he should be eligible to apply for either a long stay visa or, depending on how long he has owned or lived in his property, residence. If eligible, this provision would appear to remove his difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Cattwg - 2019-12-14 5:25 PM As an aside, if Morocco was on the agenda does entering via Ceuta put you back in Spain and hence the Schengen Zone as you transit Ceuta? Cattwg :-D After looking at this link, suggested by Brian Kirby, http://tinyurl.com/y7eurmj8, I've answered my own question. On the map Spain is marked in dark blue and a tiny piece of North Africa is marked in the same colour. This to me suggests that Ceuta is considered to be in the Schengen Zone so any days spent transiting it would count as days in the Zone. So another consideration if Morocco (via mainland Spain) is being thought of as a substitute for overwintering in southern Europe. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 12:40 PM Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 6:39 PM pelmetman - 2019-12-15 6:01 PM Bulletguy - 2019-12-15 5:24 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-15 9:45 AM The deal has yet to be decided, but I agree, that a non EU citizen will only be able to spend the maximum of 90 days in 180, and that 180 days will start the day the EU is entered. However, What I am not sure about is that even a residency in any EU country, with the penalties already mentioned, plus frozen state pensions, would entitle the holder of a UK passport free travel in the EU, and that the standard penalties would apply to those that flount the rules. Depends if they choose to become citizens of whatever country they've decided to live, they wouldn't be able to retain their UK passport. Brit immigrants living in Spain want dual citizenship to try and hang on to their UK passport. https://www.thelocal.es/20190108/brits-in-spain-hope-government-could-open-up-to-dual-citizenship-legislation-in-2019 How the hell would know anything about Spain Bullet? ;-) ....... Why not read the posted links on this thread instead of making silly comments? Brits in Portugal and other EU countries can have dual citizenship In some they can but many haven't applied, often because they can't speak the language. Netherlands doesn't permit dual citizenship just as Spain doesn't, Portugal is the easiest country to obtain it. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/british-eu-passport-european-brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 12:37 PM You are right, Brian, even Brits who are resident in, say, Portugal will have to respect the 90 day rule unless they have dual citizenship of another EU country. If they have they and their spouse may travel freely in the Schengen area.. So, if someone has dual citizenship of say Spain and the UK, and retain a UK passport, will that give them the right to roam in Europe, subject to the 90 day EU rule? A residency in Spain is not difficult to get, but citizenship, be it dual or singular, is much more complicated and at minimum requires near fluency in the language. Working residents who pay their "autonomo" also have free access to the health service, but retirees, once the UK is out of the EU will be responsible for their health, and private insurance will be required (all subject to the finality of the deal) The Padron, mentioned above is basically a list of people resident in the area. We, as non residents and paying non resident taxes should not be included (but can be) as this also gives a right to vote as well. The N.I.E. is required for everything like buying a house, car, and as a form of identification. It is not a right to reside in Spain. Edit. Ah, I see from above that Spain will not allow dual citizenship, and as to Morocco being the bolthole, if a person enters the EU on such a day, his 90 days in 180 time will start. If he then having spent say 170 days in Morocco, that would allow 10 days to be spent travelling to and from the UK without breaking the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 flyboyprowler - 2019-12-16 8:04 PM yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 12:37 PM You are right, Brian, even Brits who are resident in, say, Portugal will have to respect the 90 day rule unless they have dual citizenship of another EU country. If they have they and their spouse may travel freely in the Schengen area.. So, if someone has dual citizenship of say Spain and the UK, and retain a UK passport, will that give them the right to roam in Europe, subject to the 90 day EU rule? A residency in Spain is not difficult to get, but citizenship, be it dual or singular, is much more complicated and at minimum requires near fluency in the language. Working residents who pay their "autonomo" also have free access to the health service, but retirees, once the UK is out of the EU will be responsible for their health, and private insurance will be required (all subject to the finality of the deal) The Padron, mentioned above is basically a list of people resident in the area. We, as non residents and paying non resident taxes should not be included (but can be) as this also gives a right to vote as well. The N.I.E. is required for everything like buying a house, car, and as a form of identification. It is not a right to reside in Spain. No, Spain doesn't permit dual citzenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 On the issue of joint nationality, as has been indicated, the key is to pick a country that provides the greatest advantage. About three years ago I took precautionary joint Irish Nationality (hereditary rights - sort of) which consequently preserves my European Union rights when the UK exists the European Union. My children are consequently taking joint Irish Nationality (they now have an ‘Irish’ father) to preserve their right to work and reside within the European Union. This will also allow their children to do likewise ad infinitum . My wife is taking joint French Nationality (hereditary rights – but not a process for the admin adverse) for the same reason. I understand that a significant number of UK nationals are taking joint German nationality for similar reasons although I’m not aware of the criteria to be met to achieve this. There are many ways to crack this nut, one being to ‘wait and see’ although as a ‘Hard Brexit’ at the end of 2020 is now firmly back on the table it might not be the preferred course for the risk averse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 8:12 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-16 8:04 PM yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 12:37 PM You are right, Brian, even Brits who are resident in, say, Portugal will have to respect the 90 day rule unless they have dual citizenship of another EU country. If they have they and their spouse may travel freely in the Schengen area.. So, if someone has dual citizenship of say Spain and the UK, and retain a UK passport, will that give them the right to roam in Europe, subject to the 90 day EU rule? A residency in Spain is not difficult to get, but citizenship, be it dual or singular, is much more complicated and at minimum requires near fluency in the language. Working residents who pay their "autonomo" also have free access to the health service, but retirees, once the UK is out of the EU will be responsible for their health, and private insurance will be required (all subject to the finality of the deal) The Padron, mentioned above is basically a list of people resident in the area. We, as non residents and paying non resident taxes should not be included (but can be) as this also gives a right to vote as well. The N.I.E. is required for everything like buying a house, car, and as a form of identification. It is not a right to reside in Spain. No, Spain doesn't permit dual citzenship Are we all quite sure what we mean by "citizenship", which I don't think is interchangeable with either "nationality" or "residency" - but seems to be getting treated as if it is? Your nationality governs which country's passport you will have. I think it may be dual nationality that is actually being referred to where "dual citizenship" is being mentioned above? How long you can stay in another EU country is governed by whether you have obtained a long stay (more then 90 days) Schengen Visa (a type D Visa), or whether you have been granted a right to reside in that country in excess of 90 days (residency). In the absence of either, you are limited to "90 days within any 180 day period". Where the Spanish Padron is concerned, I don't think it has any status under the Schengen rules, as it does not grant a right to residence. The above long stay Schengen Visa (or right to reside) will be granted by, and will apply to, that country alone but, once in that country, the time spent seems not to count against your 90 days Schengen allowance (see my 16/12 post at 6:25PM above) so, if I'm understanding correctly, you can spend up to the time permitted by the residency/Schengen Visa - but in that country only - plus 90 days within the Schengen area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-12-17 12:06 PM yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 8:12 PM flyboyprowler - 2019-12-16 8:04 PM yoko8pups - 2019-12-16 12:37 PM You are right, Brian, even Brits who are resident in, say, Portugal will have to respect the 90 day rule unless they have dual citizenship of another EU country. If they have they and their spouse may travel freely in the Schengen area.. So, if someone has dual citizenship of say Spain and the UK, and retain a UK passport, will that give them the right to roam in Europe, subject to the 90 day EU rule? A residency in Spain is not difficult to get, but citizenship, be it dual or singular, is much more complicated and at minimum requires near fluency in the language. Working residents who pay their "autonomo" also have free access to the health service, but retirees, once the UK is out of the EU will be responsible for their health, and private insurance will be required (all subject to the finality of the deal) The Padron, mentioned above is basically a list of people resident in the area. We, as non residents and paying non resident taxes should not be included (but can be) as this also gives a right to vote as well. The N.I.E. is required for everything like buying a house, car, and as a form of identification. It is not a right to reside in Spain. No, Spain doesn't permit dual citzenship Are we all quite sure what we mean by "citizenship", which I don't think is interchangeable with either "nationality" or "residency" - but seems to be getting treated as if it is? Your nationality governs which country's passport you will have. I think it may be dual nationality that is actually being referred to where "dual citizenship" is being mentioned above? Citizenship can be changed whilst nationality can't. UK allows dual citizenship but quite a few countries don't This UK gov link lays out in some detail the rights of EU citizens in UK and vice versa post Brexit though reading through the pdf file, some EU citizens resident in UK for many years already have good reason to doubt. https://tinyurl.com/y6x5oaco https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I think that one of the issues around the two terms (nationality and citizenship) is that the UK government websites acknowledge that they have a degree of interchangeability (although possibly not in Law). So for instance https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality defines different types of British Nationality one of which is ’British Citizen’ and another for example which is ‘British overseas territories citizen’ the two though having different rights despite both resulting in a British passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 Re Brian's comment, we have owned our cottage in France for over six years and stil have our main home in the UK, we meet the requirements for a residents permit for France but that would mean changing over to the French tax system etc. France is currently not accepting new applications at the moment. But that's not quite what we are after, there is a rumour that France may offer a longer term visitors permit provided you can prove you are not seeking employment have the means to support yourselves so as not to be a burden on the state, and have private medical insurance and a French address Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Ted, I believe long stay Visas are already available from the French Government. I have asked them if they can clarify what might be on offer. There are definitely multi-trip Visas for 1, 3 and 5 years, so it may be worth your while exploring whether you qualify for these. They charge for the privilege, of course, but have the advantage that they are recognised Schengen-wide, so although it is a French Visa, it is accepted in all other Schengen states. These supersede the 90 days in 180 limit, though they may, I think, impose alternative maximum durations per visit. These are checked on entry and exit to/from France - I don't know whether entry through a specifically French point of entry is mandatory. Do a "Google" search for Schengen Visas, but as ever be a bit cautions, as there are numerous sources. I have sought clarification from this e-mail address: 'visas.londres-fslt@diplomatie.gouv.fr' Good luck! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-12-18 10:26 AM Ted, I believe long stay Visas are already available from the French Government. I have asked them if they can clarify what might be on offer. There are definitely multi-trip Visas for 1, 3 and 5 years, so it may be worth your while exploring whether you qualify for these. They charge for the privilege, of course, but have the advantage that they are recognised Schengen-wide, so although it is a French Visa, it is accepted in all other Schengen states. These supersede the 90 days in 180 limit, though they may, I think, impose alternative maximum durations per visit. These are checked on entry and exit to/from France - I don't know whether entry through a specifically French point of entry is mandatory. Do a "Google" search for Schengen Visas, but as ever be a bit cautions, as there are numerous sources. I have sought clarification from this e-mail address: 'visas.londres-fslt@diplomatie.gouv.fr' Good luck! :-) Brian, I will make my own enquiries when we get back to the UK, but do you know if the same long stay visas apply to Spain as well, as that could well be the bolt hole that we are looking for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Not certain about any of this, Ainsley, as it seems to change by the whim! I don't know whether such visas are issued by Spain, or on what conditions, so can't help at all with them. I do know that France issues long stay visas for tourists, at €99 a pop, but I don't yet know the qualifying conditions for granting them. Regarding the long validity visas (over 12 months), I don't know the cost, or the qualifying conditions for these. It seems they are issued by the individual states, and that the states each set their own rules for issue. At present I understand the French visa is accepted by all other Schengen states, and I understand that visas issued by some other Schengen states (not clear which) may not be universally accepted. I also understand that the long validity visas, despite being valid for up to 5 years, may or may not include provision for multiple entries, but may also limit the amount of time that can be spent in Schengen per visit. I have the impression that one may have to go to the relevant consulate/embassy to collect such visas in person. It seems clear that the details of how we are treated by Schengen/EU states will depend on whether we agree to treat Schengen/EU citizens reciprocally, so who knows how that bargaining chip will be bartered during the negotiations, or for what! I don't even know for certain whether UK citizens will need to have a visa for Schengen, or whether we will be eligible for the visa waiver scheme (where just passports are accepted as the visa) or whether these rules will come into effect on 1/2/20 when we "leave", or 1/1/21 (or whenever!) when the transition period ends! As to what may happen if there is no agreement within the transition period, so we leave with no deal???????????? Clear as mud! Nothing, I think, is decided, until everything is decided. Good, innit? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-12-18 4:54 PM Not certain about any of this, Ainsley, as it seems to change by the whim! I don't know whether such visas are issued by Spain, or on what conditions, so can't help at all with them. I do know that France issues long stay visas for tourists, at €99 a pop, but I don't yet know the qualifying conditions for granting them. Regarding the long validity visas (over 12 months), I don't know the cost, or the qualifying conditions for these. It seems they are issued by the individual states, and that the states each set their own rules for issue. At present I understand the French visa is accepted by all other Schengen states, and I understand that visas issued by some other Schengen states (not clear which) may not be universally accepted. I also understand that the long validity visas, despite being valid for up to 5 years, may or may not include provision for multiple entries, but may also limit the amount of time that can be spent in Schengen per visit. I have the impression that one may have to go to the relevant consulate/embassy to collect such visas in person. It seems clear that the details of how we are treated by Schengen/EU states will depend on whether we agree to treat Schengen/EU citizens reciprocally, so who knows how that bargaining chip will be bartered during the negotiations, or for what! I don't even know for certain whether UK citizens will need to have a visa for Schengen, or whether we will be eligible for the visa waiver scheme (where just passports are accepted as the visa) or whether these rules will come into effect on 1/2/20 when we "leave", or 1/1/21 (or whenever!) when the transition period ends! As to what may happen if there is no agreement within the transition period, so we leave with no deal???????????? Clear as mud! Nothing, I think, is decided, until everything is decided. Good, innit? :-S Many thanks for the answer Brian. It appears that Spain have a similar system to France and the cost is €60 but it doesn't make it clear if the "retirees" section is for residency, or indeed what the tax situation will be. I shall contact the embassy when I get back as they issue the visa. As you say, too complicated to make a judgement at the moment. Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 flyboyprowler - 2019-12-18 6:23 PM...……………...Many thanks for the answer Brian. It appears that Spain have a similar system to France and the cost is €60 but it doesn't make it clear if the "retirees" section is for residency, or indeed what the tax situation will be. I shall contact the embassy when I get back as they issue the visa. As you say, too complicated to make a judgement at the moment. Ainsley Don't forget to check whether that visa is accepted outside Spain - unless you only intend to take direct ferries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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