Hans Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 About 20 club members did the flwg: For 500 euro. a new bump stop and a spring added on the rear axle. L/R. Up to 2 inches in height. Do it. In one hour. And your are not lay down at the rear whit some weight at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Rear ‘helper springs’ suitable for Ducato are markeed in the UK (example advert here) https://tinyurl.com/vopn5nb Unless a motorhome is always sagging at the rear when normally driven, fitting helper springs should be unnecessary (and probably undesirable). Helper springs should be cheaper than a ‘semi-air’ kit (and certainly simpler to install) but a semi-air kit allows a motorhome’s rear ground clearance to be adjusted by the vehicle’s owner, whereas helper springs lack that capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hill Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Yes it is a good idea, I fitted our Fiat with the extra springs in 2003 and ran the van til 2019. They worked well, in fact too well you might say. They were fitted after a upgrade from 3200cwt to 3500cwt by strengthening the back axle, so there was a good reason for it, but it ended up being noticeabley higher at the rear and was a small leveling problem. Please be aware that if the rear is dipped you may just be too heavy at the rear so check on a weighbridge before buying just extra springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 steve hill - 2019-12-29 2:03 PM ...They were fitted after a upgrade from 3200cwt to 3500cwt by strengthening the back axle..., Perhaps nit-picking, but fitting helper springs (or a semi-air kit) will NOT strengthen a vehicle’s rear axle. What the springs/kit will do is augment the rear suspension’s original springs, but that won’t alter the strength of the axle itself. As you’ve highlighted, it will be difficult to predict the exact effect of fitting helper springs on a motorhome’s rear ground clearance and, if the springs result in an excessive ’tail up’ stance, there’s nothing that can realistically be done to correct this. As it’s not too difficult or expensive for a ‘ground-clearance adjustable' semi-air kit to be fitted to a Fiat Ducato having the standard ‘dead’ rear axle, I wouldn’t contemplate using helper springs (though I admit that I’d be DIYing the semi-air kit installation, so no labour charges would be involved.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 In case of air at the rear axle and their is a leak you can have a big problem. Depending of what is left. Or you will be a duck. Stay solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 If a wheel detaches from a motorhome’s hub one will undoubtedly have a big problem, but that’s not likely to happen very often. MAD offers several auxiliary spring kits for current model Ducatos for around €300-€350 https://mad-suspensionsystems.com/en/products/#springselector and (as this video-clip relating to fitting MAD springs to a Ford Transit’s rear axle shows) installation should be straightforward and quick. Several UK companies also offer this type of product (examples here) http://www.springassisters.co.uk/menu.htm http://www.leafspringassister.co.uk/peugeot-boxer-relay-ducato/ An Italian-made “Easy Top” semi-air kit for a current model Ducato is available for under €400 (including delivery to the UK) and, as should be evident from the following link, installation of the bellows-units should be no more challenging than fitting auxiliary coil springs, https://www.sospensionieasytop.it/en/catalogue/2~fiat/fiat-ducato-x250-dal-2006-al-2016-iii-serie.html Obviously, once the bellows-units were in place, more work would be needed to fit the air-lines and gauges, but the result would allow a motorhome’s rear ride-height to be easily adjusted and (if necessary) side-to-side springing imbalance to be corrected. Although the risk of air-bellows failure is likely to be greater than metal auxiliary-spring breakage, I still believe that the comparative advantages of fitting air-bellows units to a Fiat Ducato’s standard rear axle (rather than auxiliary coil springs) outweighs that risk. There will be instances where fitting metal auxiliary springs may be a lot less expensive than fitting semi-air, or where fitting semi-air may be impracticable (say on coachbuilt motorhomes based on a VW Transporter) but that’s not the case for Ducato-based motorhomes with the standard Fiat rear axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 My VW t6 transporter Drives like a normal car. For what we used for regarding weight. Even putholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 In case of a AL-Ko torsion bar rear axle the wheel can came off too. Beside the standard wheel bolts , the swing arm can loose if the fixing point of the Torsionsstabs bolt is broken, or not in place.If your bars are exploded it will come off too. But you fall on one side only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 In the 1970s I owned a heavily tuned Reliant Scimitar GTE https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/buyers-guide-reliant-scimitar-gte Wear in the front suspension's lower-trunnion resulted in the suspension coming apart and a front wheel to fold up into the wheel arch. At the time I had been driving in a straight line at about 30mph and the car just slid to a civilised halt with its chassis scraping along the road - but minutes before I had being doing 80mph round a bend. Exciting times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 Yes Derek it was Exiting times. That car was top. I had MGB- Austin- Healey 3000- Saab Turbos.The turbo fan is still my hobby. On cars, ships, gas pipelines, and Aero planes. i spend now half a day why the Boeing Max was went down due to the very low by pass turbine who shoots the plane in the Air like a rocket. But it can be just a sensor. The height sensor on motorhomes is the weakest point. but it sits near the inner tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 Did you are Aware that you have a turbo on your fiat Ducato and has VGT? Has is a by- pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I KNOW that the turbocharger of my previous Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome had a VGT (Variable-Geometry Turbocharger) as the turbo’s internal mechanism jammed and the turbo needed to be removed and cleaned to fix this (about £800 to do this mostly labour costs). And I’m reasonably confident that my 2015 Ducato-based Rapido motorhome has a ‘Euro 5+’ 150 motor that Fiat’s adverrtising says has a VGT. I’m aware that turbochargers (fixed-geometry as well as variable-geometry type) can have a bypass valve, but I don’t KNOW if the Hobby’s turbocharger had one and I don’t KNOW whether my Rapido’s turbocharger has a bypass valve, nor whether that turbocharger is a VGT. When I ordered the Rapido I chose the (optional) 150 motor rather than the standard 130 powerplant. My wife knew that doing this had cost about £1000 and, when the motorhome was delivered, she asked me how I could be certain it had been fitted with the (more expensive) 150 motor. I replied that there was a ‘badge’ on a front wing that said “150” and the vehicle’s documentation also indicated that a 150 motor was present. My wife then said “OK, but can you tell by looking if it has a 150 motor?” and I said No because, although I was aware that a 150 motor should have a VGT and that the VGT would probably be visually distinct from the fixed-geometry turbocharger used with the 130 motor, I still did not know how to distinguish between the two. I added that I had no reason to think the Rapido did NOT have the 150 motor and, hopefully, when I drove it, the motor’s performance would provide credible evidence which motor it had. I still don’t KNOW whether the Rapido’s motor is the 150 or 130 as I’ve never felt the need to check - but the vehicle’s performance definitely feels like the 150 motor is present and that’s good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 A VGT genuine garret turbo is used in the 150 hp version. That turbo does not have a so Separate by pass valve and piping. Invented and patented by SAAB. How ever a VGT has also a outside linkage to change the angle of the blades. That system is even used in the Boeing max Aeroplane. And as said above let the engine running for a while when parking. A aeroplane idles for 5 minutes engines off. Not only for the oil and bearings, but also to prevent shaft bending. Same as ships steam - gas turbines. A small motor engages to run the propeller shafts.Steam start whit steam, gas turbine has a start motor like a car.On The fiat 150 the linkage has a metal coverplate which sits like a umbrella over it to indentify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I believe that the turbocharger fitted to a 2015 Ducato with the 150 motor should be the Garrett model shown in this advert https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/turbocharger/garrett/806850-5005w/ and the lower-left section of the image attached below shows the shield you have mentioned that protects the actuator that moves the turbo’s internal vanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 Splendid correct Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 Some parameters, 200,000 rpm, charge air (boost) up to 1.7 bar. A pre turbine of 3 bar and 800 deg C may be generated inside the turbine chamber. The REA linkage is directly controlled by the ECM. Who has DTC Not a simple thing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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