Pete-B Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 The vans in storage about 10 miles away but I will go over tomorrow take another look and if necessary take a photo. Thanks for your help and patience.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Morning, I've taken a photo of the battery and my wife has put it in my documents (windows). I'm probably being a bit thick here but how do I put the picture from documents into my posting. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I'll start regarding posting images. They need to be less than 100KB (the management can get away with 200KB). Hover your curser over the photo in doc's or right click it and open properties to see the size. If the size is too big you will need to reduce it by whatever method you have on your PC etc. or get a prog' to do it. That's a start, someone will no doubt carry on, if not "i'll be back". BTW it's not such a simple way as on other forums. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Pete, I've sent you a email, you can send the photo to me in reply to resize and post if you want. I might have to do it later tonight as I need to get out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Pete-B - 2020-01-13 10:53 AM Morning, I've taken a photo of the battery and my wife has put it in my documents (windows). I'm probably being a bit thick here but how do I put the picture from documents into my posting. Thanks. Pete It must be obvious from the photo that you have taken whether your Ducato's starter-battery is installed in the 'normal' way (as shown in all the images provided earlier in this discussion) or in the 'unusual' way you were suggesting. So which way is your Ducato's battery installed, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-01-13 12:11 PM Pete-B - 2020-01-13 10:53 AM Morning, I've taken a photo of the battery and my wife has put it in my documents (windows). I'm probably being a bit thick here but how do I put the picture from documents into my posting. Thanks. Pete It must be obvious from the photo that you have taken whether your Ducato's starter-battery is installed in the 'normal' way (as shown in all the images provided earlier in this discussion) or in the 'unusual' way you were suggesting. So which way is your Ducato's battery installed, please? I could well be wrong and stand to be corrected but I think unusual anyhow I've sent the photo to Colin who's going to post it up later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 OK - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 OK have got the photo, resized it and added arrows to show where the terminals are, it's the standard configuration for x250/290, I think the confusing is due to the blocks bolted to it. Have added a second cropped photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbygg Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 colin - 2020-01-13 2:37 PM OK have got the photo, resized it and added arrows to show where the terminals are, it's the standard configuration for x250/290, I think the confusing is due to the blocks bolted to it. Have added a second cropped photo. Wow, There's a lot of added extras in that box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Bobbygg - 2020-01-13 4:31 PM colin - 2020-01-13 2:37 PM OK have got the photo, resized it and added arrows to show where the terminals are, it's the standard configuration for x250/290, I think the confusing is due to the blocks bolted to it. Have added a second cropped photo. Wow, There's a lot of added extras in that box. The block bolted(and screwed) to positive terminal is standard x250/290, the two extra boxes fitted to the battery box near positive terminal I'm not sure of, for the negative terminal there's what appears to be some sort of solenoid fitted which I've not seen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbygg Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 colin - 2020-01-13 4:51 PM Bobbygg - 2020-01-13 4:31 PM colin - 2020-01-13 2:37 PM OK have got the photo, resized it and added arrows to show where the terminals are, it's the standard configuration for x250/290, I think the confusing is due to the blocks bolted to it. Have added a second cropped photo. Wow, There's a lot of added extras in that box. The block bolted(and screwed) to positive terminal is standard x250/290, the two extra boxes fitted to the battery box near positive terminal I'm not sure of, for the negative terminal there's what appears to be some sort of solenoid fitted which I've not seen before. Yeah, I know that the left one one the positive post is the standard distribution block, but there's one fuse and connection missing from the bottom left post, plus a few added to the unfused post on the top left. It looks like it's an inline fuse on the left side, plus something at the top left, then the relay you mention near the negative post, plus quite a lot of extra wiring including some passing out of the box at the battery clamp area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Although the orientation and terminal-layout of the starter-battery fitted to Pete’s Bessacarr is standard for a Ducato X250/X290, there are plainly visual differences from the norm. I THINK the answer is that Pete’s Bessacarr has Fiat’s Battery Disconnection Function (BDF) that is described in the 3 attachments below. This would explain why there is a relay on the negative (earth) terminal side of the battery and the extra cabling. (it’s also mentioned on-line that Swift specified the BDF fior some of their motorhomes.) If Pete’s Bessacarr does have the BDF, the vehicle’s ignition-switch will have the BATT position and red button mentioned in the attachments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Yes you're right Derek, it does have the BDF fitted I used to use it but I've been told when I do it isolates the battery altogether and prevents the solar panels from topping it up. But with all the gubbins on top of the battery can you wonder why someone like me with limited lecky knowledge wouldn't know where to begin in swopping it for a new one. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Looks like a busbar or splitter connected to the negative pillar. this provides two M8? terminal posts. This is to accomodate a Tyco battery isolator, which is connected to the lower or rearmost post. The Tyco isolator is arranged to interrupt the main negative earth connection for the starter battery, via the the thick black cable at bottom right of the picture. The Tyco isolator latches in both closed and open positions, and requires a separate negative connection, in order to be able to switch ON. This negative is provided by the thinner black wire that is connected to the "upper" or forward M8 terminal, and which joins the control wires for the Tyco isolator. The brown cable in the upper RH corner of the picture, connected directly to the negative post, will be the negative connection to the habitation 12V system. It is not clear what initiates the operation of the Tyco battery isolator. Perhaps it is linked to an alarm system and functions as an immobiliser? The additional connections round the battery negative, will make battery changing slightly more complicated than normal, as the additional negative connections will have to be moved to one side, in addition to the more usual battery +ve fuseboard. The standard safe method of disconnecting the battery negative first, still applies but it may be easier to do this by disconnecting at the main earth lead, (either end) and insulating the free end, as well as removing the clamp from the battery negative. The clutter will the be more flexible. If Pete is not already equipped, I suggest a small investment in 10mm & 13mm spanners. Combination spanners are a useful start. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 No does not harm Anything. The best way to make electrical dead. Even safer than switches. A mobile has not a real earth. In two phase. At home 230 -240 volt last australia has a ground pin earth in 2 phase. in 3phase at home you have a return to the neaerst trafo house. find out where it sits for your house. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Obviously some of my previous post is already history. I am frequently impressed by the speed of Derek's research on varied subjects. Pete, Obviously your first objective is to change your starter battery. If you are not using the battery isolator, because it may prevent solar maintenance of the starter battery, you could confirm that this is the case by measuring or monitoring, starter battery voltage after several hours with the disconnector operated, during bright sunshine. It should be possible to check the battery voltage without having to remove the battery cover. Perhaps at the dashboard power socket? If the solar charging is interrupted by the battery isolator, it should be possible to work around this by connecting the solar regulator starter battery negative, in parallel with the habitation battery negative, instead of to earth. This may sound complicated, but could be quite simple. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Pete-B - 2020-01-13 6:56 PM Yes you're right Derek, it does have the BDF fitted I used to use it but I've been told when I do it isolates the battery altogether and prevents the solar panels from topping it up. But with all the gubbins on top of the battery can you wonder why someone like me with limited lecky knowledge wouldn't know where to begin in swopping it for a new one. :-( The disconnection-relay and its cabling on your battery’s negative (earth) terminal side will make battery-replacement less simple. You will definitely need to disconnect the battery’s own negative terminal from the relay/cabling assembly and (as Alanb has said) you will probably need to disconnect the (black) earth cable so that the relay/cabling assembly can be moved to one side to permit the battery to be removed from its in-floor compartment. If you are going to DIY this task, be systematic and careful and insulate components whenever this is practicable. Note the advice in your Owner Handbook (attachment below). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Morning all, I've just remembered a couple of years back we came into a little unexpected cash which was enough to have full air suspension and levelling jacks fitted by Mick at SAP in Donaster, (some of the best money we've ever spent). Anyhow I remember Mick saying they take the power direct off the engine battery. I know the jacks and suspension talk to each other so at least one of the cables shown in the photo's would provide the power for these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 From what you’ve said it’s quite possible that the original cabling of your Ducato’s starter-battery was modifiied when the air suspension/levelling jacks were installed, though such modifications are likely to have affected the positive (live) terminal side of the battery rather than the negative (earth) side that has the battery-disconnection relay on it. Even if an additional cable (or cables) have been installed for the air suspension/levelling jacks, this (probably) should not alter the battery replacement procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-01-14 9:14 AM From what you’ve said it’s quite possible that the original cabling of your Ducato’s starter-battery was modifiied when the air suspension/levelling jacks were insatalled, though such modifications are likely to have affected the positive (live) terminal side of the battery rather than the negative (earth) side that has the battery-disconnection relay on it. Even if an additional cable (or cables) have been installed for the air suspension/levelling jacks, this (probably) should not alter the battery replacement procedure. Thanks Derek. I checked the battery yesterday with my multimeter after it was stood over the weekend and it was reading 12.3 volts so perhaps I'm panicking a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Assuming that your multimeter is accurate (!!) a 12.3V reading would equate to an around 65% state of charge - but the reading can be affected by any current drain being placed on the battery and/or whether the battery is receiving any charge (eg. from solar panels). The standard factory-fitted Ducato battery is 'maintainable' in that its electrolyte-level can be checked and topped up if necessary. But even with the standard installation not all 6 cells can be checked without removing the assembly connected to the battery's positive terminal, and your installation may only permit one cell (or perhaps two cells) to be checked without disconnecting the assembly on the negative terminal as well. Your battery should be OK if it will start your motorhome easily, but if you can check the electrolyte-level in any of the cells I suggest you do so. This won’t be a sure-fire method of confirming that the electrolyte-level is correct for all six cells, but if the level in one of the cells is low, there’s a fair chance that the level in the other five cells will also be low. This 2016 forum thread referred https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-vehicle-battery-access/45861/ (I have seen one on-line comment where a Ducato owner said that he had regularly checked the electrolyte-level of the starter-battery’s four cells that were accessible without needing to disconnect the positive-terminal assembly, but the battery had later failed due to the level dropping too low in the two cells that had not been checked.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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