Urgent - info needed on hymer 2009 B544SL

[Hymer fan]

Hi

Has anyone got this particular model /or has a brochure /or technical information

 

It is a RHD 3lt 160bhp on the light alko chassis with 15"wheels so think was made for the British Market maybe sold via Brownhills

 

There is a Hymer sticker on the skirt at the rear near the door for 3500kg

But on the drivers door post there is another Hymer sticker showing 3850kg

Does this mean Hymer up plated it from the factory?

 

I have contacted Brownhills & Hymer but both say they have no information

Does anyone know what the payload was out of the factory

And what was included in their calculation for payload allowance

 

Thanks

hymer fan

 

 

 

[rayc]

A friend's Hymer was supplied as new with a MGW of 3500kg and the weight plate was affixed to the skirt on the habitation door side of the vehicle.

Hymer upgraded the weight at his request to 3850kg [ the sum of the axle weights] without any modifications and provided a replacement plate.

 

Perhaps the same was done to yours but instead of replacing the skirt mounted plate they owner simply added it inside the door. What is the Revenue weight and VED class on the V5c Registration document?

 

[Robinhood]

I suspect if it has been upgraded/downgraded Hymer will have supplied a replacement plate rather than an additional "stage" one.

 

It is worth checking on the offchance, however whether one is a "Stufe 2" plate (it will say on it) and one a "Stufe 3". If this is the case, then the higher number plate is the one in force. (I suspect both will be "Stufe 2").

 

I can't, as yet, find a 2009 Pricelist which would give you the weight information you need. The closest I can find is 2010 MY (albeit 2009 published) in German.

 

https://www.yumpu.com/de/document/read/10847503/vorab-preisliste-reisemobile-presse-2010-hymer

 

This does not include the 544 (presumably not built for the 2010MY) but the figures for, say, the similar 524SL indicate it is low on payload at 3500kg before options, and the 3 litre engine isn't light.

 

Footnote b) should show the basis of calculation of the MIRO, but I can't find the cross reference :-(.

[Derek Uzzell]

Based on my French motorhome magazines, it looks like Hymer ceased production of B544 models at the end of the 2008 model-year.

 

It’s possible to access downloadable archived Hymer motorhome price lists through this ERIBA website

 

https://www.eriba.com/de/service-und-zubehoer/kataloge/archiv/

 

The 2008 (German/Germany only) price-list provides details of the “B-Klasse SL 544” model that was built as standard on a Ducato ‘light’ AL-KO chassis base with a 2.3litre motor. The gross vehicle weight (GVW) was 3850kg as standard or a 3500kg weight could be specified instead. Mass in Running order is given as 3070kg. A buyer could specify a 3.0litre motor for the ‘light’ chassis with a weight penalty of 50kg.

 

The B544 could also be ordered on a Ducato Maxi AL-KO chassis with the 2.3 litre or 3.0litre motor and with a GVW of 3500kg or 4000kg.

 

(Anyway, that’s the way I interpret the in-German price list.)

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-11-05 9:36 AM

 

......The gross vehicle weight (GVW) was 3850kg as standard or a 3500kg weight could be specified instead.

 

(Anyway, that’s the way I interpret the in-German price list.).......

 

It's the other way round, Derek (SA denotes the option, not the standard).

 

The footnote for b) is referenced in that document, and denotes that the MIRO in this case is calculated as follows:

 

"Weight in running order according to EN 1646-2 including basic equipment (75 kg for driver, filled fuel tank, filled water tank, 100% gas and electrical connection cable) in the basic variant. The mass in running order (and the possible payload or number of people) changes with different engines or equipment variant and by adding special equipment.

Deviations within the factory tolerances are possible and permissible."

 

If destined for the UK market, the 'van is unlikely to have left the factory without additional options and weight (which can be calculated from the price list).

 

The full gas is likely to be a single lightweight German 11kg, and the water in this case may well be the lower of the two figures quoted, at 70 litres. (Practice and documentation for the latter has varied in later model calculations and publications).

[Brian Kirby]

rayc - 2020-11-04 4:38 PM

A friend's Hymer was supplied as new with a MGW of 3500kg and the weight plate was affixed to the skirt on the habitation door side of the vehicle.

Hymer upgraded the weight at his request to 3850kg [ the sum of the axle weights] without any modifications and provided a replacement plate.

Perhaps the same was done to yours but instead of replacing the skirt mounted plate they owner simply added it inside the door. What is the Revenue weight and VED class on the V5c Registration document?

We had a 2013 Hymer Exsis-i 578 that was plated, to order, ex works, at 3,700kg. In 2016, having discovered after three years experience that its actual laden weight as used did not exceed 3,500kg, I opted to have it plated down, by Hymer, to 3,500kg (which was the "standard" MAM for the model). This was driven by the faff of having medicals once over 70 so as to maintain my 7.5 tonne driving licence "grandfather rights", and the prevalence of 3.5 tonne weight restrictions.

 

Hymer required only a fee plus a picture of the original 3,700kg plate to positively identify the chassis, and "build", numbers from their records to provide a replacement "plate" at 3,500kg MAM. This was an exact replica of original plate saving the stated MAM. It was in fact a self adhesive plastic transfer with a peelable backing paper. A hot air gun softened the adhesive on the original plate, allowing it to be peeled away from the vehicle flank just above the side skirt. The new plate was then simply attached in its place.

 

The Hymer plate in the engine bay (on the transom member above the radiator - the "Stufe 2" plate) beside the Fiat plate, had always given the MAM as 3,500. This related to the second stage completion, when the AlKo rear chassis was attached to the Fiat chassis-cowl front end. The above plate is Hymer's third stage, completion, plate.

 

I suspect, as suggested above by Ray, that the Hymer plate by the door pillar results from a later up-plating of the van - when the 3,500kg plate should, strictly, have been removed replaced with the 3,850kg plate. There should be correspondence with Hymer regarding this change. I had a letter from Hymer formally confirming the weight change. I'm a little surprised that Hymer have no record of this change. Their record keeping seemed very thorough in 2016.

 

Check that the details given on both plates, including the EU approval code and the Hymer serial number all match, except for the MAM (topmost of the five fields terminating in "KG". (This assumes the same format for the plate as our 2013 model.)

 

The final clue should be the weight stated on the V5C (probably in field Y - "Revenue weight".) which should confirm that the DVLA re-issued the document in confirmation of the up-plating (which would also have resulted in the lower, Private HGV, VED rate at field X. "taxation class", in lieu of the original Private/Light goods (PLG) entry.).

[Derek Uzzell]

Robinhood - 2020-11-05 10:04 AM

 

It's the other way round, Derek (SA denotes the option, not the standard)...

 

 

OK, at least I now know that SA = Sonderausstattung = special equipment - which usefully increases my minimal German vocabulary.

 

(I probably should have realised that a Ducato ‘light’ B544 would be offered with a 3500kg GVW as standard, rather than with a 3850kg GVW, as the lower weight would significantly increase its buyers’ market.)

[Hymer fan]

Wow

Thanks everyone for such a prompt and comprehensive response

Just got to get my head round it all now

This may take some time :-S

[Derek Uzzell]

As Brian touched on above, if the Hymer is UK-registered in Tax Class 11 (Private/Light Goods - vehicle with maximum weight not exceeding 3500kg) the annual charge from April 1 2020 will be £270. Conversely, if the Hymer is registered in Tax Class 10 (Private HGV - vehicle with maximum weight exceeding 3500kg) the annual charge from April 1 2020 will be £165.

 

So a £270 payment would suggest that the Hymer’s weight is 3500kg, or a £165 payment would suggest the weight is 3850kg.

 

It may also be possible to confirm the ‘Revenue Weight’ via this on-line application

 

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

 

My (SORNed) Rapido is correctly shown as having a 3500kg Revenue Weight.

[Brian Kirby]

In view of what has been said above regarding payload at 3,500kg, plus your query about your C1 licence, I think it might be a good idea to get your van to a weighbridge and get it weighed, plus getting the load on the two axles.

 

Ideally, do this in a close to the legally defined "unladen" condition as possible. This is not to be confused with MIRO, which is higher, but is with everything loose (i.e. not actually fixed to it) removed, except the jack and the original toolkit. The fuel tank should be empty, but for practical reasons (:-)) it is best done with the tank brimmed, and then deduct the weight of a full tank from the weighbridge result (at 0.85kg per litre for diesel). Gas cylinders removed if the exchange (i.e. Calor etc.) type, no water, no waste, no driver, no passenger, empty toilet cassette. If the result is below 3,050kg your van is not subject to the lower (HGV) UK speed limits, if over, it is. (This will not apply abroad, as the plated MAM will apply)

 

Beside telling you whether you are subject to the lower UK speed limits, you will then have a basis for establishing your actual gross payload. This seems highly desirable as, if the actual payload would be insufficient were you to lose your C1 licence and have to re-plate your van to 3,500kg, you would find yourself the owner of a van you could not, legally, drive on the one hand, or not practically use without overloading it, on the other.

 

In considering this, bear in mind that it is not the actual weight of the van on any given day that counts, it is what its plated MAM is. If plated above 3,500kg, and you do not have the C1 or higher entitlement, you could not legally drive the van - even if it were completely empty.

 

So, if you think there is any risk to your continued entitlement to the C1 licence, it might be worth getting your doctor to give you the required examination "informally" as soon as possible, to find out where you might stand were he to examine you "formally". There is a risk to this, in that if anything serious is discovered that would have to be notified to DVLA, your licence may in any case be at immediate risk but, that risk apart, if the result is a clean bill of health, you would know you could continue using your van with reasonable confidence.

 

Otherwise, if you find at the point where your existing licence is about to expire that you will lose the C1, you would face a "fire sale" of the van, which would leave you little to no choice but to change it for whatever you could find below 3,500kg at short notice. Not the ideal circumstances in which to go shopping! Sorry to be the gloomster, but under the circumstances, all things to keep in mind.