John52 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 This is the highest rated comment in the FT Quote "Donald Trump does not cate about Afghanistan or Israel attacking Iran or last minute administrative changes. Donald Trump cares about Donald Trump. He is billions in debt. Under criminal investigation and wildly hated by half the country and most of the rest of the world. The most dangerous animal is the wounded one and we are seeing why. Unless he secures a second term he is facing bankruptcy, prison, isolation and irrelevance. I am not sure which he fears most. The GOP have shown once again their utter spinelessness in enabling him. Does anyone really believe that they will all suddenly reverse themselves when the results are certified? Ther are tens of millions of votes in pandering to the conspiracy theorists, they have their own eyes on the Presidency and DT may well be the kingmaker. Meanwhile Bill Barr is using the considerable resources oj The Justice Department to ensure that certification never happens. This needs to be called out now for what it is. They are attempting a coup." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 He's playing a very dangerous game. For the last four years he's treated the office of president as his own personal reality tv series but the show is over now. The 'voter fraud' allegations he's making are all delaying tactics making himself look extremely stupid. At the rate he's carrying on there's every possibility of the 25th Amendment being used to remove him from office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 3 years wasted on the Russian collusion guff, countless millions of dollars spent trying to frame POTUS Trump over the same guff and the wets havent got the decency to let him and his lawyers prove what he says is voter fraud, he is very much in his rights to do that ... If hes correct then those who have spent the last 4 years saying hes a fraud wont want another fraud in office will they and if he is wrong then hes as daft as the haters have been saying for the last 4 years ... Surely its a win-win for the haters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-11-12 4:18 PM 3 years wasted on the Russian collusion guff, countless millions of dollars spent trying to frame POTUS Trump over the same guff and the wets havent got the decency to let him and his lawyers prove what he says is voter fraud, he is very much in his rights to do that ... If hes correct then those who have spent the last 4 years saying hes a fraud wont want another fraud in office will they and if he is wrong then hes as daft as the haters have been saying for the last 4 years ... Surely its a win-win for the haters I agree that absolutely every stone must not be left unturned but I also agree with John52. I think there is a very good chance this is exactly what he / they might try and do. Then there was this the other day. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/pompeo-trump-run-2024-election-inauguration-b1720645.html Sounds very "coupy" to me. Even if they find evidence which they wont he is so far behind in the likes of Pennsylvania there is no chance of a win for Trump. Trump has engineered this. This was his plan B. He knew that by encouraging his supporters to vote at the poling stations knowing full well that many democrats would do the opposite he got it in very early sewing the seeds of doubt that the postal voting system was open to fraud so of course if he lost he could carry on that conspiracy theory and whip up a frenzy in his wake. You are however correct. The Democrats need to be whiter than white on this (oooooh bit racist there) but I have no doubt that Trump will not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just read a bit in the Huff Post explaining the history and workings of the Electoral College. What a wonderfully zany system! It's historic accident on steroids, but whatever the state outcomes at present, the College votes aren't cast until some time in December, and even then have to be ratified by state assemblies and Governors separately, before being finally confirmed just before the formal inauguration in January. Under the system, Governors are not bound to follow the College vote, or the popular vote in the state. There is no absolute obligation on the electors in the College to mirror the votes cast in each state, because when the College was initiated by the Founding Fathers in 1776, they took the view that the electorate couldn't be trusted to reach the correct decision, and so gave that responsibility to "Electors", who would in turn be elected by the electorate of each state. The electors alone would then be responsible for electing Presidents. So, the Electors' right to vote for the President they consider best suited remains, although the modern convention is that they should follow the votes of their state electorates. Do a "Google" on "electoral college" and look for the Huffington Post article. So, who will, finally, emerge as President remains in some doubt pretty much right up to inauguration day. Be afraid, be very afraid! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-11-12 4:18 PM .....the decency to let him and his lawyers prove what he says is voter fraud, he is very much in his rights to do that ... Making allegations doesn't make evidence of which he's provided absolutely nothing......zero, zilch, diddly squat. NY Times contacted top election officials in all 50 states to ask if they had any evidence of fraud. Not a single state reported back an issue. Rep Governor of Texas and Trump supporter offered $1 million for evidence of fraud. You don’t offer huge cash prizes if you already have evidence. Your boys sideshow has turned into a freak show with him centre stage, where he likes to be, and sensible Americans thankfully woke up to his shenanigans and had enough now. He's just delaying facing up to the inevitable.....exiting the WH, prosecution, and paying off his debts. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/kris-kobach-and-search-mythical-voter-fraud/617069/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-12 6:56 PM Birdbrain - 2020-11-12 4:18 PM .....the decency to let him and his lawyers prove what he says is voter fraud, he is very much in his rights to do that ... Making allegations doesn't make evidence of which he's provided absolutely nothing......zero, zilch, diddly squat. NY Times contacted top election officials in all 50 states to ask if they had any evidence of fraud. Not a single state reported back an issue. Rep Governor of Texas and Trump supporter offered $1 million for evidence of fraud. You don’t offer huge cash prizes if you already have evidence. Your boys sideshow has turned into a freak show with him centre stage, where he likes to be, and sensible Americans thankfully woke up to his shenanigans and had enough now. He's just delaying facing up to the inevitable.....exiting the WH, prosecution, and paying off his debts. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/kris-kobach-and-search-mythical-voter-fraud/617069/ Chuckle "Making allegations doesnt make evidence" ... For once you are correct, cant think why you didn't have those same views when the Democrats were screaming this, that and t'other though ... Why dont you allow POTUS Trump to legally follow through with his claims if your so confident its just a "freak show", seems you are making a lot of fuss over such a "show" and a load of nothing ... Hate on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-11-12 6:18 PM Birdbrain - 2020-11-12 4:18 PM 3 years wasted on the Russian collusion guff, countless millions of dollars spent trying to frame POTUS Trump over the same guff and the wets havent got the decency to let him and his lawyers prove what he says is voter fraud, he is very much in his rights to do that ... If hes correct then those who have spent the last 4 years saying hes a fraud wont want another fraud in office will they and if he is wrong then hes as daft as the haters have been saying for the last 4 years ... Surely its a win-win for the haters I agree that absolutely every stone must not be left unturned but I also agree with John52. I think there is a very good chance this is exactly what he / they might try and do. Then there was this the other day. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/pompeo-trump-run-2024-election-inauguration-b1720645.html Sounds very "coupy" to me. Even if they find evidence which they wont he is so far behind in the likes of Pennsylvania there is no chance of a win for Trump. Trump has engineered this. This was his plan B. He knew that by encouraging his supporters to vote at the poling stations knowing full well that many democrats would do the opposite he got it in very early sewing the seeds of doubt that the postal voting system was open to fraud so of course if he lost he could carry on that conspiracy theory and whip up a frenzy in his wake. You are however correct. The Democrats need to be whiter than white on this (oooooh bit racist there) but I have no doubt that Trump will not be. "Even if they find evidence which they wont" ... Princess you hoping they dont does not mean they wont find voter fraud ... Truthfully for Americas sake I hope they do not find any voter fraud and I hope that Diden takes over because America thanks to the Democrat hate over the last 4 years and BLM/Antifa is in a mess ... A mess not of POTUS Trumps doing but that of hate ... I hope unless mass fraud can be shown that Joe 'dead' Diden takes the hot spot, hes got a lot of $hit to sort with Covid n'all ... Good luck to him, hes done sod all for the Americans in the past 40 odd years hes been a politician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-12 6:48 PM Just read a bit in the Huff Post explaining the history and workings of the Electoral College. What a wonderfully zany system! It's historic accident on steroids, but whatever the state outcomes at present, the College votes aren't cast until some time in December, and even then have to be ratified by state assemblies and Governors separately, before being finally confirmed just before the formal inauguration in January. Under the system, Governors are not bound to follow the College vote, or the popular vote in the state. There is no absolute obligation on the electors in the College to mirror the votes cast in each state, because when the College was initiated by the Founding Fathers in 1776, they took the view that the electorate couldn't be trusted to reach the correct decision, and so gave that responsibility to "Electors", who would in turn be elected by the electorate of each state. The electors alone would then be responsible for electing Presidents. So, the Electors' right to vote for the President they consider best suited remains, although the modern convention is that they should follow the votes of their state electorates. Do a "Google" on "electoral college" and look for the Huffington Post article. So, who will, finally, emerge as President remains in some doubt pretty much right up to inauguration day. Be afraid, be very afraid! :-D Just the illusion of democracy, and they complain about other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-11-12 7:04 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-12 6:56 PM Birdbrain - 2020-11-12 4:18 PM .....the decency to let him and his lawyers prove what he says is voter fraud, he is very much in his rights to do that ... Making allegations doesn't make evidence of which he's provided absolutely nothing......zero, zilch, diddly squat. NY Times contacted top election officials in all 50 states to ask if they had any evidence of fraud. Not a single state reported back an issue. Rep Governor of Texas and Trump supporter offered $1 million for evidence of fraud. You don’t offer huge cash prizes if you already have evidence. Your boys sideshow has turned into a freak show with him centre stage, where he likes to be, and sensible Americans thankfully woke up to his shenanigans and had enough now. He's just delaying facing up to the inevitable.....exiting the WH, prosecution, and paying off his debts. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/kris-kobach-and-search-mythical-voter-fraud/617069/ For once you are correct, Not for the first time but many. The rest of your post as usual is padded out with nonsensical gibberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 From pitching himself as some kind of tv ratings "God".; *-) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326920264203046915 to spreading more false claims with zero evidence; *-) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1326926226888544256 Twitter should suspend his account as they're constantly flagging his insane tweets on 'voter fraud'. :-| This tweet is concerning; https://twitter.com/tothelostmonth/status/1326981095322079233 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-12 6:48 PM Just read a bit in the Huff Post explaining the history and workings of the Electoral College. What a wonderfully zany system! It's historic accident on steroids, but whatever the state outcomes at present, the College votes aren't cast until some time in December, and even then have to be ratified by state assemblies and Governors separately, before being finally confirmed just before the formal inauguration in January. Under the system, Governors are not bound to follow the College vote, or the popular vote in the state. There is no absolute obligation on the electors in the College to mirror the votes cast in each state, because when the College was initiated by the Founding Fathers in 1776, they took the view that the electorate couldn't be trusted to reach the correct decision, and so gave that responsibility to "Electors", who would in turn be elected by the electorate of each state. The electors alone would then be responsible for electing Presidents. So, the Electors' right to vote for the President they consider best suited remains, although the modern convention is that they should follow the votes of their state electorates. Do a "Google" on "electoral college" and look for the Huffington Post article. So, who will, finally, emerge as President remains in some doubt pretty much right up to inauguration day. Be afraid, be very afraid! :-D I think this is it Brian but I can't fully understand it. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/electoral-college-explained-us-election-american-voting-system_uk_5f96a4d8c5b6a2e1fb633117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 More here. I would say if they do carry out such an undemocratic process it could well result in civil war. However if they succeed America becomes a full blown fascist dictatorship. As I said I havent completely got my head around this yet but the three essential battleground states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin all have Democrat governors they are not going to vote against Biden are they and I think without them doing so Trump still wont win. Its confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-11-12 10:43 PM...............................I think this is it Brian but I can't fully understand it. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/electoral-college-explained-us-election-american-voting-system_uk_5f96a4d8c5b6a2e1fb633117 Yep, that's the one. It seems almost no-one (outside those responsible for administering it) fully understands it, because it is so convoluted - which in itself seems to leave it open to manipulation. At least it's different! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Its simply a form of proportional representation ... Something the wets on here strongly support ... Or dont they support it anymore now ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-11-13 7:56 AM Its simply a form of proportional representation ... Something the wets on here strongly support ... Or dont they support it anymore now ??? I dont think anyone would support a system where a set of electors get to skew the final vote if it doesn't suit them which is what this sounds like even if it was proportional representation. If America goes down this route then it really is in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-13 7:05 AM Barryd999 - 2020-11-12 10:43 PM...............................I think this is it Brian but I can't fully understand it. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/electoral-college-explained-us-election-american-voting-system_uk_5f96a4d8c5b6a2e1fb633117 Yep, that's the one. It seems almost no-one (outside those responsible for administering it) fully understands it, because it is so convoluted - which in itself seems to leave it open to manipulation. At least it's different! :-D Different? :-S ........... Sounds just like the EU to me >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-13 9:07 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-13 7:05 AM Barryd999 - 2020-11-12 10:43 PM...............................I think this is it Brian but I can't fully understand it. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/electoral-college-explained-us-election-american-voting-system_uk_5f96a4d8c5b6a2e1fb633117 Yep, that's the one. It seems almost no-one (outside those responsible for administering it) fully understands it, because it is so convoluted - which in itself seems to leave it open to manipulation. At least it's different! :-D Different? :-S ........... Sounds just like the EU to me >:-) ......... It would! :-D In fact, as you'd know if you'd read the Huff Post piece, and knew anything factual about the EU, there is no similarity at all, other than that some people get to vote - in a lot of different places. But then its an election - but not as we know it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-11-13 7:56 AM Its simply a form of proportional representation ... Something the wets on here strongly support ... Or dont they support it anymore now ??? It ain't anything like any form of PR! There is no proportionality, just one man, one vote, winner takes all, state by state, but with a few steps added between the vote and the final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Sinister or just Trump being petulant? Its seems the security and validity of the voting system is now the most secure its ever been. He is now sacking his own cybersecurity officials as they are not giving him the answers he wants to hear or is it something more sinister. Probably the former. At this rate Trump is going to drag the republican party down with him. So far the only fraudulent vote found was some PA Trump voter who put in a vote for his dead mother. Apparently Trump insisted on an investigation as to why Hillary got 3 million more popular votes than him. I think they found six fraudulent votes, some of which were for Trump. Alarming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 The USA seems to be fond of it's Electoral College system but clearly it distorts the simplicity of one-man-one-vote counting and it doesn't even seem to be completely bullet-proof in that in some states there is little to prevent the Electors deciding for themselves who to vote for, ignoring the popular vote in thier State. Not likely to happen in any widespread way but not entirely bullet-proof as a democratic mechanism. The importance given to transparency, with all States seemingly obliged to release details of the count-so-far as they go also contrasts with our system, in which Constituency Returning Offficers announce the count only once it is complete, dleayed as necessary if there is a recount. And of course we don't elect our Prime Minister directly. Perhaps the most vulnerable aspect of the US system is the 8 week delay before a President-Elect is sworn in, during which a President who is leaving office unwillingly can rock the boat quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-11-13 12:57 PM Sinister or just Trump being petulant? Its seems the security and validity of the voting system is now the most secure its ever been. He is now sacking his own cybersecurity officials as they are not giving him the answers he wants to hear or is it something more sinister. Probably the former. At the moment it's certainly the former as that's what he's always done with anyone who doesn't kowtow. But the longer they leave him in the WH the more damage he will cause and we've seen how he's been whipping up his gangs of armed thugs. Saturday there are pro-Trump demos planned but Biden supporters are being encouraged to stay away. With all that weaponry loose on the streets the Trump lot are daft enough to start shooting each other if there are no Biden folk out on the streets. If any shooting starts Trump will be hiding in WH with a supply of Maccy D's. At this rate Trump is going to drag the republican party down with him. So far the only fraudulent vote found was some PA Trump voter who put in a vote for his dead mother. Apparently Trump insisted on an investigation as to why Hillary got 3 million more popular votes than him. I think they found six fraudulent votes, some of which were for Trump. Alarming? He dragged the RP into the swamp long ago. His psychopathy is ooc now though as he's started claiming Biden never won the election but lost......by a lot! *-) All his batty tweets have been flagged by Twitter. The world is watching the US and it's not a pretty sight....quite shameful (and dangerous) having a lunatic on the loose in the WH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-13 12:33 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-13 9:07 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-13 7:05 AM Barryd999 - 2020-11-12 10:43 PM...............................I think this is it Brian but I can't fully understand it. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/electoral-college-explained-us-election-american-voting-system_uk_5f96a4d8c5b6a2e1fb633117 Yep, that's the one. It seems almost no-one (outside those responsible for administering it) fully understands it, because it is so convoluted - which in itself seems to leave it open to manipulation. At least it's different! :-D Different? :-S ........... Sounds just like the EU to me >:-) ......... It would! :-D In fact, as you'd know if you'd read the Huff Post piece, and knew anything factual about the EU, there is no similarity at all, other than that some people get to vote - in a lot of different places. But then its an election - but not as we know it! Correct ;-) ........... In a Democracy the people get to vote for their President >:-) ......... Unlike the unDemocratic EU *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-13 2:58 PM Barryd999 - 2020-11-13 12:57 PM Sinister or just Trump being petulant? Its seems the security and validity of the voting system is now the most secure its ever been. He is now sacking his own cybersecurity officials as they are not giving him the answers he wants to hear or is it something more sinister. Probably the former. At the moment it's certainly the former as that's what he's always done with anyone who doesn't kowtow. But the longer they leave him in the WH the more damage he will cause and we've seen how he's been whipping up his gangs of armed thugs. Saturday there are pro-Trump demos planned but Biden supporters are being encouraged to stay away. With all that weaponry loose on the streets the Trump lot are daft enough to start shooting each other if there are no Biden folk out on the streets. If any shooting starts Trump will be hiding in WH with a supply of Maccy D's. At this rate Trump is going to drag the republican party down with him. So far the only fraudulent vote found was some PA Trump voter who put in a vote for his dead mother. Apparently Trump insisted on an investigation as to why Hillary got 3 million more popular votes than him. I think they found six fraudulent votes, some of which were for Trump. Alarming? He dragged the RP into the swamp long ago. His psychopathy is ooc now though as he's started claiming Biden never won the election but lost......by a lot! *-) All his batty tweets have been flagged by Twitter. The world is watching the US and it's not a pretty sight....quite shameful (and dangerous) having a lunatic on the loose in the WH. The world was also watching Al Gore in 2000 when he questioned the election result ... Wonder if he was called a "lunatic" for questioning the machines that read the ballots o if its just a POTUS Trump thing ??? ... Let me guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-11-13 8:58 AM Birdbrain - 2020-11-13 7:56 AM Its simply a form of proportional representation ... Something the wets on here strongly support ... Or dont they support it anymore now ??? I dont think anyone would support a system where a set of electors get to skew the final vote if it doesn't suit them which is what this sounds like even if it was proportional representation. If America goes down this route then it really is in trouble. Blimey ... Hypocrisy lives ... You mean like our traitor MPs would have gladly got "to skew" the referendum result because it didn't "suit them" ??? ... Why are you not allowing POTUS Trump to question the result in the legal way him and his team are doing ??? Why is the legal route so wrong ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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