stevec176 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 A couple of days ago I went and started the MH after a 2 month layup and left it running for about 30 minutes. When I went back I noticed that the drivers seat belt warning light was on, even tho the seat belt was connected, and also the drivers airbag warning light was on. As it was -2° outside I decided to switch off and check again later. I've just been out again and started the MH and the lights still stay on but this time I also noticed that the mileage reading is flashing and the passenger airbag light is also on. It's all looking really expensive so before I book it into the garage for investigation and the annual serving and MOT, due in March, does anyone have any information please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I am no expert but the flashing mileage indicates that the Can bus system has lost communication on one or more of its nodes. This could mean that there is no communication with the air bag module leading to the warning lamp being on. My suggestion for what its worth is to perform a 'Proxy Alignment' with the aide of the Fiat Interrogator System or alternative such as Multiscan. I suggest you google Proxy Alignment to get a better explanation. If your service is being carried out at a Fiat garage they would have to connect the interragator system to the vehicle to reset service interval etc so a Proxy Alignment is only an extra finger press. https://www.gendan.co.uk/multiecuscan.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 A ow battery can throw up this fault. Fully charge the battery and disconnect the battery for 1 hour. Reconnect battery and ???? It may have worked. I did email Fiat regarding our fault. Being out of warranty by 10 months I thought nothing would happen, this email was sent on a Sunday. Monday morning I received a telephone call from Italy advising me to take it to our local Fiat professional and Fiat would look to cover the cost. So depending on the age of your MH I’d try charging the battery first before contacting Fiat. Good luck. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 The issue can be caused by the battery falling too low at starting, replacing or charging the battery without following procedure or jump starting. If the voltage in the electrical system goes outside of design limits, some of the 'computers' can become 'confused' or fail, The air bag computer failure is common under these conditions. Hopefully the system can be re aligned as suggested above, but air bag computer failure may have occurred. Unless you have the diagnostic equipment and the skill to use it, a trip to the dealer is required. Sometimes several restarts may clear the issue or disconnecting the engine battery (following procedure) and reconnecting after a few minutes delay can 'reset' the system. When working on the engine battery its recommend to follow the manufactures guide hidden away in the handbook. Very briefly, the safe way to disconnect the battery is: First disconnect any 'camper' circuits that may back feed the vehicle system , (battery chargers, battery master trickle chargers, dual output solar chargers). Working from inside the van with doors and windows closed and key out of the ignition, wait 2 minutes from the door closure or 10 if the ignition has also been on. Disconnect the battery negative, position so it cannot make accidental contact with the battery post. The doors can now be opened and any work on the vans electrical system carried out, for example replacing the battery or investigating the restraint system connections under the seats. Reconnecting the battery, complete all connections to the battery except the battery negative and any 'camper' circuits. With doors and windows closed, key out, reconnect the battery negative in a 'decisive' way, reconnect any 'camper' circuits, wait 60 seconds before turning on the ignition and a further 30 seconds before starting. Regarding the connections to the 'camper' electrical system. It may not be obvious in the vans battery compartment where connections are made to the 'camper' circuits. Disabling any chargers in the 'caravan' system and disconnecting the leisure battery negative, before any work on the vans starter battery, would be an alternative and perhaps more easily implemented method of isolating the leisure circuits from the van circuits. The possibility of interaction between the leisure battery and its associated chargers with the van electrics is often overlooked when working on the vans electrical system. Where 'air bag' issued are discussed, checking the connections under the seats is often advised. To be safe and comply with HSE directives, any work or investigation of the restraint systen must be carried out with the battery disconnected. Without disconnecting the battery, there is a remote but possible chance the seat belt pre tensioners and seat air bags (if fitted) will be deployed, resulting in possible injury. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 Thanks for the advice. As soon as the weather improves I'll check the battery and try what you suggest. By the way the van started I don't really think there is a problem with the battery but I'll check to be sure and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bounty hunter Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 If battery ok and lights still lit this may be your problem & solution REMOVE, REPAIR/REPLACE FAULTY ECU MODULE ON FIATS AIR BAG WARNING LIGHT ON FIAT DUCATO My friend has a motorhome built in 2015 based on a Fiat Ducato and noticed his airbag & seat belt tensioner warning lights illuminated on his dashboard. This is a known fault on Fiats and indicates a faulty ECU module which controls the airbags. Google suggested repair costs at main Fiat garages varying between £500 - >£1000 but also highlighted a company who could possibly repair the ECU Crash Data were contacted and confirmed they could under certain circumstances repair the unit at a cost of £30-£60 and if not they could supply a new unit costing £180. The decision was made to remove the unit and send it to Crash Data who only accept units by post. Removal Process (Carried out by John Hunter) Disconnect battery and wait 30 minutes DO NOT RE-CONNECT WITHOUT ECU UNIT INSTALLED Remove unit which is situated on floor underneath cup holder on main dashboard. Unit was secured with 3 x 10mm nuts and 2 scart type plugs were removed. Noticed unit made in 2014. Unit posted Tuesday, arrived Wednesday and was unable to be repaired. Also unit is no longer available and has been replaced with an updated model. However the airbag ECU has to be coded to the main ECU to enable them to talk to each other and Crash Data had never done this on an updated replacement unit but were willing to try and if it didn’t work they would take the unit back and replace with an un-coded unit which could be taken to a Fiat Dealership for coding. Unit arrived Friday morning, re-fitted by reversing removal process, and 30 minutes later van was running perfectly CRASH DATA Throughout this process they have been helpful, courteous and professional. They now know that if units get updated and replaced they can take the code from your original unit and successfully code the new unit. I first contacted them by email on Saturday afternoon and within an hour I had a reply even though they were closed Total cost including postage was £187.20 which was a massive saving https://www.crashdata.co.uk/Default.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 I tried leaving the battery disconnected for a while and reconnected but still had the flashing lights. Also checked the battery voltage and it was 13volts. Have removed the ECU and sent it to Crash Data. I had also emailed MMM and got the following from Nick Fisher which might also be if interest to others Most airbag warnings arise from moving the seat back or forth and disturbing the wiring connectors for the seatbelt pre-tensioner and would require some checking (observing the appropriate safety procedures) and then resetting with a diagnostic device. The fact that in your case, the seatbelt warning is staying on even when the belt is fastened would be cause for alarm because this is a very unusual fault indeed but thankfully we have another clue in that the mileage is flashing. This is the Body Computer letting you know that something is wrong in the same manner that the Engine Management does. The latter signifies that something that may affect the emissions of the vehicle is not working correctly and the former tells us that the Body Control Module and it's associated Can-Bus network is not working properly. The BCM is connected to almost every electrical system on the vehicle and receives regular data from nodes around the vehicle relating to everything from the heating system to the lighting; including the Airbag Control Unit which handles airbags, seatbelts and pre-tensioners. I will resist speculating too much because it could be a very simple matter of the BCM suffering an interruption of it's power supply and merely needs resetting but the ACU is situated on the cab floor underneath the central glove compartment and is susceptible to getting wet if you have a windscreen that is not sealed properly or if the heater unit is leaking coolant. The BCM is located behind the driver's side fuse box on the lower dashboard and is also slightly prone to suffering from earth related issues, but these are very rare on these later vehicles. So: Let's concentrate on the most likely situation. The fact that the faults exist and that you are seeing the flashing mileage is a good thing because it suggests that the BCM and the ACU are not damaged (since they are reporting the faults that they are detecting) and clues are always helpful. I am reasonably confident that if you take the vehicle to a Fiat Authorised service centre or at least a workshop that has a high quality Fiat specific diagnostic unit (plus the knowhow to use it), and you ask them to check for fault codes in the Body Computer before perfoming a "Proxi-Alignment", you will see things restored to normality. The Proxi-Alignment is a procedure that re-introduces all of the devices connected to the BCM using the original factory settings stored in the BCM at the factory. It takes up to half an hour to do. After this is done, the diagnostic device can be used again to check to see if the faults have been deleted. The device must first be disconnected and the engine started before stopping the engine and reconnecting the diagnostic unit. If this does not clear all of the faults that existed before, the workshop can then start to check out the codes that have been presented. Fault codes are not definitive answers, they are merely clues. Fortunately the ACU provides detailed and specific clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Just got the results back from Crash Data and my ECU module is beyond repair so I need a replacement. The quote for a drop in replacement from Crash Data is £342, is that a good price? I've tried searching on line but can't find anything that matches so I've contacted my dealer for a quote. Does anyone know where I might be able to get a replacement from or is the quote a good one? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 From previous reports that I've seen, Fiat price is around £450 plus they will have to code it to your van. Crashdata can code a replacement unit so that your van effectively recognises it as the same unit they you removed, so a drop in replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Steve, you presumably have the part number (which is on the ECU itself). I can only find one number for an airbag ECU for that vintage, which is 1 375 111 080 If it is that, then the listing here will give you an idea of pricing (the description makes me wonder about the part number, though) https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/fiat-ducato-peugeot-boxer-citroen-relay-airbag-control-unit-2014-onwards-oe.html AIUI, the replacement unit from Crashdata might well be fully coded, and be a drop-in (I would check). Any "virgin" replacement would need coding to your 'van (which might simply be a proxi-align, though I'd have to research). This would mean additional charge (somewhere) over and above the purchase cost. (though, if it were simply a proxi-align, and you have a laptop, then £100 investment in MultiECUscan and connectors could still be a good move for the future). Edited to add: A past post on the subject from Nick Fisher "Euroserve" confirms that the recoding is a proxi-align. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 The module from CD comes fully coded so just drop in and start up. My part no is 01375110080, could find one with the same number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Steve, Forgive me, as there is only 1 digit difference, I only noticed one part. There are 2, and the other is yours. This listing at Coastal is it, but sadly out of stock. https://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/fiat-ducato-peugeot-boxer-citroen-relay-air-bag-control-unit-2-3-4-loop-14-on-oe.html It does give you an idea of the list price, however (assuming it's correct) Possibly worth enquiring about lead times (or dealer price) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bounty hunter Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Steve If you read my post my friend was the first to get an updated model coded and it worked. Also cost was £!80 so I would question the steep increase Good luck John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks John, I had read your response so I was a bit shocked by the increase. The options given by CD were We can leave things as they are and return the module to you. Testing fee and return postage = £25.20 (24hr tracked) We can code up a donor module if you supply the donor (part number must match your original) = £79.20 (24hr tracked We can supply you with a new module without proxi alignment £270 including postage (You would still need to have the module coded to the vehicle with this option). We can supply you with a new module with proxi alignment £342 including postage (The module will be ready to plug in as it will be coded to your vehicle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Steve, the last "Coastal" link I put up headlines a different part number, but it cross-references to yours in a list of OE part numbers below. This implies it is compatible, and if so, so should the other OE part numbers in the listing. I can find (available) hits on the headline number, and some of the others. It may be worth exploring that compatibility and searching on the other numbers. (I suspect some of the parts might have been superseded by a (compatible) modification). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 If you can get someone to proxi-align for you (or buy multiecuscan), then the other part number brings up this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/18041840980 (Check the OE cross-reference in the listing - it is shown as compatible just like the Coastal listing). They are (part of) the Fiat Dealer in Chesterfield, so should be able to confirm compatibility. It's not rock-bottom price, but gives an alternative. And if you wanted to take a bit more of a chance, this listing under one part number with a picture of a different part number is quite a bit cheaper. Both part numbers are on the Partsworld and Coastal lists of compatible numbers. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ORIG-Fiat-Ducato-Peugeot-Boxer-Citroen-Relay-Airbag-Control-Unit-1394332080/265015570246 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Robin hood, I did look and unfortunately saw it was out of stock so intending to contact them to see what they suggest thanks for the lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Decided to get a replacement module from CD, cost £342, received this morning and now fitted. All warning lights out and system working normally again. Thanks for everyone's advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Sometimes the easy/known way, even if it costs a bit more, is the best. I might (stressed) have taken a chance on the cheaper, equivalent part number (after some careful checking), but I already have the ability to do a proxi-align at no additional cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 The problem with using 2 companies is if something goes wrong who is responsible, who will take responsibility to sort it out? Had I had the equipment, like you I'd have gone for the buying the module too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Interesting. I have the identical problem on an X290 Hymer. Coming up to 5 yre old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejkay Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Got a nasty shock when I read the full thread and found out about the likely cost! I will try the battery disconnection route first and keep my fingers crossed. In my case my solar panels failed April/May last year - another long and miserable story :'( . So, for the last year I have not been using the van muach and I have been using an EHU. Perhaps I let the chassis battery discharge a bit too much. I think that having solar panels made me a bit careless about the health of my "maintenance free" batteries. As the batteries are coming up to five years old perhaps this is the time to replace them. Anybody have any ideas about whether this might sort out the flashing warning lightd problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Took mine into our local Fiat professional 10.30 this morning. Just rang me to advise the ECU is the problem. Fiat Italy agreed to supply one Complimentary. We only have to pay for fitting. Approximately £98.00 plus vat I suppose. Our MH is a 66 reg with 23,000 miles. It really is worth contacting Fiat first. I did send an email directly to Fiat customer relations a while ago on a Sunday and they rang me on the Monday morning. AMAZING SERVICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I had exactly the same outcome as Den when mine failed in the year after warranty expired. Good prompt customer service from Fiat. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I see from above quotes that google mentions prices up to a £1000.00 And a replacement one one for £340. A new one from Fiat is £175.00 plus vat plus one hour to fit including the software update. It will then come with 12 months warranty covered by Fiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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