Brian Kirby Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 thebishbus - 2021-04-04 8:01 PM To add to the above . Surely the only place to hold to account for the virus and all mutations is China ? Brian B. Only Brian, I think, at the level of not having learnt from SARS, and the way in which that crossed from bats to civets to humans. They left the door open, and surprise, surprise, in popped another! That, I think, is why they are so acutely defensive. It seems bats harbour a very wide cocktail of viruses, and China harbours millions of bats. It will go on happening until China deals with the conditions that allow the viruses to cross from bat to A.N.Other to humans. I suspect they may have that message now! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Interesting piece from 2017 https://time.com/magazine/us/4766607/may-15th-2017-vol-189-no-18-u-s/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-04 9:11 PM thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) ................... But you, OTOH, have not. It is the "British" version that is mainly responsible for the present problem in Europe. I'm unaware of any virologist who is saying otherwise. It is the problem simply because it is more infectious than other variants, so more people are getting it. It was the "British" (AKA Kent) variant that causes the surge in Covid in UK after the summer. The genomics confirm that it is now the dominant strain in the Europe. If you think that is wrong, say where it is wrong. Otherwise................................................................:-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-05 5:02 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-04 9:11 PM thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) ................... But you, OTOH, have not. It is the "British" version that is mainly responsible for the present problem in Europe. I'm unaware of any virologist who is saying otherwise. It is the problem simply because it is more infectious than other variants, so more people are getting it. It was the "British" (AKA Kent) variant that causes the surge in Covid in UK after the summer. The genomics confirm that it is now the dominant strain in the Europe. If you think that is wrong, say where it is wrong. Otherwise................................................................:-D Your wrong........... Its the British Variant of the Italian variant ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-06 9:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-05 5:02 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-04 9:11 PM thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) ................... But you, OTOH, have not. It is the "British" version that is mainly responsible for the present problem in Europe. I'm unaware of any virologist who is saying otherwise. It is the problem simply because it is more infectious than other variants, so more people are getting it. It was the "British" (AKA Kent) variant that causes the surge in Covid in UK after the summer. The genomics confirm that it is now the dominant strain in the Europe. If you think that is wrong, say where it is wrong. Otherwise................................................................:-D Your wrong........... Its the British Variant of the Italian variant ;-) ........... Where am I wrong? That was the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 So we have a an Article in the Daily Fail with a whole load of 'if, buts, and maybes', it is of cause picked by the Haters as definitive proof. How many times do I have to tell you Dave that quoting the Fascist Daily Fail is just shooting yourself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-06 2:57 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-06 9:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-05 5:02 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-04 9:11 PM thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) ................... But you, OTOH, have not. It is the "British" version that is mainly responsible for the present problem in Europe. I'm unaware of any virologist who is saying otherwise. It is the problem simply because it is more infectious than other variants, so more people are getting it. It was the "British" (AKA Kent) variant that causes the surge in Covid in UK after the summer. The genomics confirm that it is now the dominant strain in the Europe. If you think that is wrong, say where it is wrong. Otherwise................................................................:-D Your wrong........... Its the British Variant of the Italian variant ;-) ........... Where am I wrong? That was the question. Blimey have you forgotton already? 8-) ......... You posted this :D ............ "We do not know if the English variant emerged exactly at the end of September, as well as ours at the beginning of August - specifies the number one of virologists - A temporal analysis of the Sars-CoV-2 sequences, carried out by the group of Massimo Ciccozzi", epidemiologist of the Campus BioMedico university in Rome, "tells us that this new Italian variant may have been generated around the beginning of July. ***What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the first evidence of mutations in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe.*** Ergo........The Italian/British Variant >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 colin - 2021-04-06 3:51 PM So we have a an Article in the Daily Fail with a whole load of 'if, buts, and maybes', it is of cause picked by the Haters as definitive proof. How many times do I have to tell you Dave that quoting the Fascist Daily Fail is just shooting yourself in the foot. You mean that article who's contents have been verified by the forums LOSER in Chief Brian Kirby up thread? :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-06 3:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-06 2:57 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-06 9:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-05 5:02 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-04 9:11 PM thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) ................... But you, OTOH, have not. It is the "British" version that is mainly responsible for the present problem in Europe. I'm unaware of any virologist who is saying otherwise. It is the problem simply because it is more infectious than other variants, so more people are getting it. It was the "British" (AKA Kent) variant that causes the surge in Covid in UK after the summer. The genomics confirm that it is now the dominant strain in the Europe. If you think that is wrong, say where it is wrong. Otherwise................................................................:-D Your wrong........... Its the British Variant of the Italian variant ;-) ........... Where am I wrong? That was the question. Blimey have you forgotton already? 8-) ......... You posted this :D ............ "We do not know if the English variant emerged exactly at the end of September, as well as ours at the beginning of August - specifies the number one of virologists - A temporal analysis of the Sars-CoV-2 sequences, carried out by the group of Massimo Ciccozzi", epidemiologist of the Campus BioMedico university in Rome, "tells us that this new Italian variant may have been generated around the beginning of July. ***What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the first evidence of mutations in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe.*** Ergo........The Italian/British Variant >:-) ......... No but you're behind the times. La Repubblica December 28 2020. Look at the update on the "Anymore evidence required to prove Brexit was the right choice?" string, from Guardian Weekend Magajine 3 April 21. Information changes over time! :-D Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input, Dave Pelmet knows more and better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-06 6:54 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-06 3:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-06 2:57 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-06 9:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-05 5:02 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-04 9:11 PM thebishbus - 2021-04-04 7:15 PM I think you are missing the point here Brian. Dave is responding to the anti Brexit people on here and some in the EU that are saying it is the British version that is causing the problem. But as you agree the virus can have similar mutations anywhere and everywhere ,so it could be the same or similar mutations it just depends where it is detected and reported first. Brian B. The "other" Brian deffo saw the point Brian ;-) ................... But you, OTOH, have not. It is the "British" version that is mainly responsible for the present problem in Europe. I'm unaware of any virologist who is saying otherwise. It is the problem simply because it is more infectious than other variants, so more people are getting it. It was the "British" (AKA Kent) variant that causes the surge in Covid in UK after the summer. The genomics confirm that it is now the dominant strain in the Europe. If you think that is wrong, say where it is wrong. Otherwise................................................................:-D Your wrong........... Its the British Variant of the Italian variant ;-) ........... Where am I wrong? That was the question. Blimey have you forgotton already? 8-) ......... You posted this :D ............ "We do not know if the English variant emerged exactly at the end of September, as well as ours at the beginning of August - specifies the number one of virologists - A temporal analysis of the Sars-CoV-2 sequences, carried out by the group of Massimo Ciccozzi", epidemiologist of the Campus BioMedico university in Rome, "tells us that this new Italian variant may have been generated around the beginning of July. ***What we can say from Mr Ciccozzi's studies is that ours is certainly the first evidence of mutations in the Spike protein at the level of position 501 in Italy and perhaps, at least to date, in Europe.*** Ergo........The Italian/British Variant >:-) ......... No but you're behind the times. La Repubblica December 28 2020. Look at the update on the "Anymore evidence required to prove Brexit was the right choice?" string, from Guardian Weekend Magajine 3 April 21. Information changes over time! :-D Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input, Dave Pelmet knows more and better! Do you mean this article? ;-) .......... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/03/has-everyone-in-kent-gone-to-illegal-rave-on-variant-trail-with-covid-detectives Where does it say?..........."Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input" :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 No Dave, not that article. I've already given a link in the "Anymore evidence required to prove Brexit was the right choice?" string. Have a look there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-07 6:08 PM No Dave, not that article. I've already given a link in the "Anymore evidence required to prove Brexit was the right choice?" string. Have a look there. You mean this post and link which "is" the same as mine? :-S ......... Brian Kirby Posted: 6 April 2021 11:00 AM Subject: RE: Anymore evidence required to prove Brexit was the right choice?........ 5000500050002000100050010010010010025 Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street PROFILE PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 7:08 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-01 7:00 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-01 6:11 PM..................................Nothing to suck up Brian ........ You have just shown that like the NASTY EU you are trying to weaponize where COVID mutates ....... Which just shows how low NASTY LOSERS and the NASTY EU have sunk ........ No Dave, I'm just struggling to persuade you of a very simple, self-evident, truth - that you don't want to face up to. That from all available evidence the Kent variant mutated in Kent, and very sadly has since spread from Kent across the UK, causing about 50% of all Covid deaths here, but (and it seems you may be pleased by this) has also spread across Europe (which includes the EU) and is now killing people there. I should remind you (because it was more than an hour ago), that this whole "discussion" originated when you were complaining that some eminent scientists hade the temerity to state that in their opinion the Kent variant had originated in ................................. Kent. You were disputing that because it implicated the UK as its origin, and you were looking for evidence (of which there is none) that it had been imported into the UK from "France, Spain, or Italy". Now that seems to me to show that just like the NASTY UK Brexiters it was you who was trying to weaponize where COVID mutates - which just shows how low you NASTY Brexiters have sunk - even by your own standards. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Time to stop, methinks. Nice try Brian ......... Your Blah blah blah only fools LOSERS ....... The FACT is that you LOSERS like the NASTY EU are trying to weaponize where a variant mutates ....... Perhaps its time for you Brit Haters to stop methinks ......... Or emigrate to LOSER Land......Go on you know EU want to ........ Update, from the Guardian Weekend magazine 03/04/21 and it is quite long, so Dave will cover his eyes in case he reads a bit of sense (known to Dave as blah, blah, because it is more that three words long, but also because his cognitive dissonance goes into overdrive when his fag packet reasoning is challenged). Link here for those prepared to invest a bit of time in gaining some useful further knowledge: https://tinyurl.com/2r9ddvdh For the more impatient, the significant part of a long story is this: "While sequencing helped identify and track the variant’s spread, it couldn’t explain where it had come from. Atchison and her team went looking for patient zero, contacting the 20 first cases they knew about. “We wanted to know, has it been imported? Is it from an animal?” They had been watching for any virus arriving from Denmark’s mink farms, where an outbreak had led to the cull of 17m animals in November. “We were nervous there may be an animal reservoir. And most other countries don’t do genomic surveillance as well as we do.” The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had,” Atchison says. “They weren’t farmers or vets.” Tracking back beyond the sequenced cases was impossible with any certainty; virus samples were destroyed after a few days. (The discovery of the Kent variant has changed that; labs are now asked to keep them for a month.) “My best guess was the first patient might have been somewhere in London, because it’s just a big city with lots of people,” Barrett says. It might have been someone who flew in from another country; but as it spread rapidly in the UK before taking hold anywhere else, he thinks this unlikely. Most scientists now think it emerged in someone who was ill with Covid for a long time, and whose immune system was compromised. Ravi Gupta, professor of clinical microbiology at Cambridge University, saw this when the virus mutated in a Covid patient he was treating in hospital. The man in his 70s had a damaged immune system because of lymphoma and chemotherapy. Two months after contracting Covid, he was given convalescent plasma, full of antibodies from patients who had recovered. But sequencing the virus in him, they found it had changed in a way that appeared to confer resistance to the antibodies. It was not the first case of the Kent variant; but many scientists think it is the most plausible explanation of how it might have emerged." So, no smoking gun, but an accumulation of evidence, as might be expected, that presently points in one direction only. The Kent variant emerged spontaneously in the UK - 'though not necessarily in Kent. The above extracts are a bit misleading as to the complexity of the story, but there is a wealth of further detail in the rest of the article to explain how this conclusion was arrived at. One think is for sure: there are a lot of unsung backroom boffins in this story who deserve far greater public recognition for their work. Sadly, from Dave's point of view, they are all university educated, and they are helping him stay Covid free and alive. Must be very difficult for his cognitive dissonance! ----- Brian So I ask again........Where does it say?..........."Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input" .......... If you could highlight it for me please? ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? He only skims over screechy headers from DM links.....he doesn't do 'content'. :-| Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? He doesn't want to read that though......it doesn't fit his irrational Europhobia. You never got an answer to this question you asked him which he claimed to have proof of. Brian Kirby - 2021-03-30 4:00 PM pelmetman - 2021-03-28 9:29 AM.............................The fact that you refuse to accept the evidence says more about you LOSERS than it does us WINNERS (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... What "evidence" FGS? Exactly what is it that "proves" the UK was right to leave the EU? In what way will the man on that famous Clapham omnibus be better off out, than he was in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Nice try Brian :D....... But I've caught you spinning the truth/being economical with the facts/spreading fake news or as I was taught as a kid ;-) ........LYING >:-) ......... Perhaps thats why there's been such a feeding frenzy of Haters on here this afternoon? (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-08 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Nice try Brian :D....... But I've caught you spinning the truth/being economical with the facts/spreading fake news or as I was taught as a kid ;-) ........LYING >:-) ......... Perhaps thats why there's been such a feeding frenzy of Haters on here this afternoon? (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Where is what I said untrue? Where is your evidence that the Kent variant was imported? Calling someone a liar because you can't prove your point is a bit of an admission of defeat, isn't it? This is now down at infant school level. How about an adult answer, just for me? Go on, you know you really want to - the question is, can you? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-09 12:40 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-08 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Nice try Brian :D....... But I've caught you spinning the truth/being economical with the facts/spreading fake news or as I was taught as a kid ;-) ........LYING >:-) ......... Perhaps thats why there's been such a feeding frenzy of Haters on here this afternoon? (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Where is what I said untrue? Where is your evidence that the Kent variant was imported? Calling someone a liar because you can't prove your point is a bit of an admission of defeat, isn't it? This is now down at infant school level. How about an adult answer, just for me? Go on, you know you really want to - the question is, can you? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Your statement ;-) ............."Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input" .......... If its TRUE..........Post the evidence >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-10 8:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-09 12:40 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-08 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Nice try Brian :D....... But I've caught you spinning the truth/being economical with the facts/spreading fake news or as I was taught as a kid ;-) ........LYING >:-) ......... Perhaps thats why there's been such a feeding frenzy of Haters on here this afternoon? (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Where is what I said untrue? Where is your evidence that the Kent variant was imported? Calling someone a liar because you can't prove your point is a bit of an admission of defeat, isn't it? This is now down at infant school level. How about an adult answer, just for me? Go on, you know you really want to - the question is, can you? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Your statement ;-) ............."Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input" .......... If its TRUE..........Post the evidence >:-) .......... We've already done this. You have all the necessary evidence above. Are you completely incapable of reading a sentence longer that three words? What a sentence "says" is what it means - when read as a whole. If you still disagree, show me where any reputable source "says" that the UK variant originated in Italy, because all I can find "says", as above, that there is no such evidence (over to you (lol) (lol)), leaving its origin as UK, most probably in Kent where it was first detected. Its origins have to be identified by scientists analysing its genetic code, segment by segment. There is no little Union, or Italian, flag in the code, or a little box with a message inside saying "a present from Italy". It is a search for characteristics that, taken together, show the stages the virus has passed through as it has passed from person to person. The eventual conclusion can only ever be reached on the basis of a "best fit" with those characteristics. If you don't want to accept that best fit scientific conclusion fine, just say so. Then we can all park that with all your other unicorns! (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-10 12:39 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-10 8:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-09 12:40 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-08 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Nice try Brian :D....... But I've caught you spinning the truth/being economical with the facts/spreading fake news or as I was taught as a kid ;-) ........LYING >:-) ......... Perhaps thats why there's been such a feeding frenzy of Haters on here this afternoon? (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Where is what I said untrue? Where is your evidence that the Kent variant was imported? Calling someone a liar because you can't prove your point is a bit of an admission of defeat, isn't it? This is now down at infant school level. How about an adult answer, just for me? Go on, you know you really want to - the question is, can you? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Your statement ;-) ............."Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input" .......... If its TRUE..........Post the evidence >:-) .......... We've already done this. You have all the necessary evidence above. Are you completely incapable of reading a sentence longer that three words? What a sentence "says" is what it means - when read as a whole. If you still disagree, show me where any reputable source "says" that the UK variant originated in Italy, because all I can find "says", as above, that there is no such evidence (over to you (lol) (lol)), leaving its origin as UK, most probably in Kent where it was first detected. You skewered him way back on this but because he can't find a way out and NEVER admits he got something wrong, picks a line from a post, then wants 'proof' of where it's stated verbatim in the linked report. It ends up in a potty ping-pong because you have to remember, you've been dealing with someone totally incapable of adult debate and as you said yourself, it's at infant school level. To communicate with Pelmet it has to be done with childrens cartoon images, word bubbles and lots of pictures. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-04-10 12:39 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-10 8:49 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-09 12:40 PM pelmetman - 2021-04-08 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-04-08 12:56 PM Simple question. Did you read the whole article, because I suspect not? The nearest you are going to get is this: "The first sequences in the database were from two people who were tested on 20 September in Kent, and 21 September in London. But neither was the first person to have it. “They hadn’t had links to immunocompromised people, hadn’t travelled anywhere unusual or had contact with someone who had". (I've put the relevant bit in bold, in case you missed it.) Taking the rest of the detail in the article into account, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, in the light of current knowledge, is that the variant arose in UK, most probably in Kent. What is more definite is that there is currently no evidence showing it to have originated in Italy (or elsewhere outside the UK) and was brought into the UK, or more specifically, Kent. To prove your point that is the evidence you need - and there is none. You are left with making a judgement, based on probabilities, between homegrown origin and foreign origin, in which all evidence points to UK/Kent origin, and none to foreign origin. As I said, there is no smoking gun, so you have to work through the probabilities. Try it. Look for the evidence of importation. Where is it? Conclusion? Nice try Brian :D....... But I've caught you spinning the truth/being economical with the facts/spreading fake news or as I was taught as a kid ;-) ........LYING >:-) ......... Perhaps thats why there's been such a feeding frenzy of Haters on here this afternoon? (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Where is what I said untrue? Where is your evidence that the Kent variant was imported? Calling someone a liar because you can't prove your point is a bit of an admission of defeat, isn't it? This is now down at infant school level. How about an adult answer, just for me? Go on, you know you really want to - the question is, can you? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Your statement ;-) ............."Says no Italian input detectable. So, with a significant number of the UK's scientists saying no detectable Italian Input" .......... If its TRUE..........Post the evidence >:-) .......... We've already done this. You have all the necessary evidence above. Are you completely incapable of reading a sentence longer that three words? What a sentence "says" is what it means - when read as a whole. If you still disagree, show me where any reputable source "says" that the UK variant originated in Italy, because all I can find "says", as above, that there is no such evidence (over to you (lol) (lol)), leaving its origin as UK, most probably in Kent where it was first detected. Its origins have to be identified by scientists analysing its genetic code, segment by segment. There is no little Union, or Italian, flag in the code, or a little box with a message inside saying "a present from Italy". It is a search for characteristics that, taken together, show the stages the virus has passed through as it has passed from person to person. The eventual conclusion can only ever be reached on the basis of a "best fit" with those characteristics. If you don't want to accept that best fit scientific conclusion fine, just say so. Then we can all park that with all your other unicorns! (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Keep it up Brian ;-) ........I'm enjoying your squirming :D ........ I doubt you've ever used so many (lol) 's.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-04-10 5:57 PM..............................I doubt you've ever used so many (lol) 's.......... I haven't. No one else has ever given me the opportunity! How else can one respond to total stupidity? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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