Holidays in Mainland Europe

[Tracker]

Without getting into the politics, reasons, logic (or lack of) and rights and wrongs or playing any sort of blame game, but taking a look at where we are now what, if anytjing, is likely to change or has straight forward uncomplicated European travel as we used to know it gone forever?

 

Motorhome holidaying by the nomadic unbooked meandering style using Aires etc that we love so much has little appeal for UK use and if we will be unable to enjoy the simplicity that we used to enjoy touring in mainland Europe it makes, for us, buying another van rather pointless.

 

I appreciate that many people enjoy the peace of mind of pre booked sites and I can see the attraction, but not for us as being a free spirit free to wander and explorte as we choose is everything.

[stevec176]

And that will return but not this year I don't think. I'm looking forward to next year and to see what it brings but in the meantime I'll make do with the UK.

[malc d]

The problem is that the virus is in charge of where we go and when.

 

The government, guided by their medical experts, can make plans, but none of them actually know when and where

the next ' surges ' of the pandemic ( if any ) are likely to be. Not in this country or anywhere else.

 

No doubt the predictions are all being " assisted " by computer modelling - but even computers don't know what's going to happen for certain.

 

So, it seems to me than any plans we make are likely to be overtaken by events.

 

Make a plan + cross your fingers - might be the best plan.

 

Good luck - whatever your plans are !

 

 

;-)

[weldted]

Unfortunately it is a case of what you might bring home with you, more than where can you go, we bought a new van for to enjoy what years we may still be fit and able to wander freely far and wide, also have a holiday cottage near Limoges. But would rather miss this year if it means safer and longer away next year. Against go to soon and end up back where we are now again.

[BruceM]

There are of course many uncertainties. Continental Europe is currently suffering the ravages of the British variant much as we did over winter. Basically we are three months ahead of them in that regard. Their vaccination process is now moving apace (subject to supply issues) so I suspect that they will be where we are now, lock down wise, around about August so perhaps able to open up for the tourist season.

 

The great unknown will be the impact of UK’s third wave of infections now that the lockdown has been eased. If it becomes nasty then we may be continuing restrictions just as continental Europe starts to open up. So if I’m available and the rules allow it and the UK is in a good place I’d be looking to head abroad in September and maybe earlier if travel restrictions allow it. One additional caveat. The EU countries are likely to embrace ‘vaccine passports’ to help facilitate travel etc. If the UK does not participate or at least creates an equivalent acceptable document I’m not sure how we’d fair.

 

The great thing though is that as we have a motorhome, if our personal circumstances allow it, we can all just pack up and go when it suits – no plan required, no bookings to make (Chanel crossing aside).

[vindiboy]

We too are missing our 6 months jollies to Spain ,Portugal etc , had our first Christmas and New Year home this year for about 6 years, did not like it but hey ho that is how it is, we are non campsite users preferring wild camping and Aires etc where ever we go, and no booking for anything , it was all very easy in the recent past but now the 90 day thing and Portugal banning wild camping or so it seems at the moment and also part of Spain are banning it too , so a rethink is on the cards, plenty of Aires still available Spain Portugal etc but they have the campsite vibe that we like to avoid but we shall see, we use the CCC extensively in the UK rallies and THS sites so that is a good way to go UK., we are also members of a Wild Camping forum UK and you would be surprised at the very many wild camping places available in the UK available to us , there are also Brit stops, pub stops etc so not all doom and gloom,

This Virus is with us forever now as is the Flu Virus so we are going to have to learn to live with it, , we get our second Vaccinations next week so feeling optimistic all round, Life must go on , crossing a road can kill us so we just have to be realistic , careful and aware and get on with it methinks.

[laimeduck]

Rich

I don't see it quite as bad as you are hinting at.

I do not think 2021 will be a real possibility for touring in Europe due to their parlous covid situation - possibly Autumn,

but I wouldn't bank on it.

As far as touring Europe after the pandemic, let's say 2022, the only change I can foresee is the 90 day rule.

I think sites and aires will open up again, and the nomadic meandering style will be quite possible with no pre-booking, but only for 90 days.

For me that is not a real problem - I have never been away more than 70-80 days anyway and we always use sites.

 

I started touring Europe in campervans in 1953 and Dormobiles afterwards with my parents and the rules were as tough then, so no difference? The French will be their normal insular selves and will from time to time probably make life difficult, the Germans will be "Alles in Ordnung", the Austrians haughty, the Italians manic, and the Spanish grateful ?, but it will all settle down I'm sure.

 

Jeremy

[Brian Kirby]

laimeduck - 2021-04-14 12:54 PM

Rich

I don't see it quite as bad as you are hinting at.

I do not think 2021 will be a real possibility for touring in Europe due to their parlous covid situation - possibly Autumn,

but I wouldn't bank on it.

As far as touring Europe after the pandemic, let's say 2022, the only change I can foresee is the 90 day rule.

I think sites and aires will open up again, and the nomadic meandering style will be quite possible with no pre-booking, but only for 90 days.

For me that is not a real problem - I have never been away more than 70-80 days anyway and we always use sites.

I started touring Europe in campervans in 1953 and Dormobiles afterwards with my parents and the rules were as tough then, so no difference? The French will be their normal insular selves and will from time to time probably make life difficult, the Germans will be "Alles in Ordnung", the Austrians haughty, the Italians manic, and the Spanish grateful ?, but it will all settle down I'm sure.

Jeremy

True, although you'll have to be very careful what foodstuffs you take in with you (especially plant material, meat or milk or products so derived), and what booze you bring back with you.

 

The only other thing is that if intending to take two trips annually, you'll have to be very careful how you negotiate the 90 days rule, as the second trip (unless it starts 90 days or more from the return date of a preceding trip) will be limited in duration to 90 days minus any days spent in Schengen (note not just, or even all, of the EU) during the 90 days preceding day one of the following trip.

[BruceM]

BruceM - 2021-04-14 10:03 AM

The EU countries are likely to embrace ‘vaccine passports’ to help facilitate travel etc. If the UK does not participate or at least creates an equivalent acceptable document I’m not sure how we’d fair.

The following from Reuters apparently from 4 days ago :

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/eu-countries-move-towards-covid-passes-to-reopen-summer-travel/ar-BB1fDEFH?ocid=BingNews

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries formally agreed on Wednesday to launch COVID travel passes as a step towards reopening to tourism this summer and will negotiate details with the bloc's lawmakers in May, two diplomatic sources said.

 

The certificates would allow those vaccinated, recovered from COVID-19 or with negative test results to travel more easily in the EU, where restrictions on movement have weighed heavily on the travel and tourist industry for over a year.

 

The 27 EU member states "underlined their commitment to have the framework ready by the summer of 2021," said a document endorsed by national envoys and seen by Reuters.

 

The European Parliament, which must also agree to the proposal for it to take effect, is due to agree its own position later this month and final talks between the lawmakers, national envoys and the bloc's executive are expected to start in May.

 

EU countries are working in parallel to ensure "that the necessary technological solutions are in place", the EU27 decision read, so that the new digital or paper certificates can be put to use once approved.

 

The member states' agreement includes provisions against discrimination towards those who cannot or do not wish to get vaccinated and allows for a range of tests to prove recovery.

 

While member states would be obliged to recognise EU-approved vaccines, specific countries could also issue certificates covering jabs Russia's Sputnik or China's Sinovac vaccines that are only authorised on their territory.

 

Other EU countries would decide whether to accept a certificate referring to a vaccine not approved by EU regulators.

[goldi]

Good morning,

 

Its not just getting to the mainland Europe , its the bringing back of any infection that we might not know we have, especially the Indian varient. At one calculation it would cost us nearly 1000 pounds in testing on our return which makes travel out of the question but I am expecting these costs to come down a lot. I reckon the way things are going we are going to put back to September for the fourth time our June travel plans.

[stevec176]

Don't rush into holidays abroad. These countries need our custom and money and don't really care about our health so be patient until next year and then you'll be safer and able to enjoy it.

[BruceM]

It will be interesting to see what gov.uk’s response is. Foreign tourism is worth £23 billion to the UK in a normal year (eg 2018) so there’s likely to be significant pressure to permit low cost travel to and from the UK as summer approachs – for UK citizens probably via a UK version of the EU’s vaccine certification. Whether or not the requirement to be tested prior to or on arrival remains we’ll have to wait and see although I suspect that it will be dropped for visitors that have had both vaccinations as will the requirement to isolate on arrival although I'd add the caveate that there may be specific difference dependant on which country a visitor arrives from - aka a traffic light system.

[StuartO]

There is so much we don’t yet about how COVID-19 will play out and how long the pandemic’s limiting effects on motorhome touring abroad will last. I imagine there will be significant constraints for at least the next two years, even though some UK motorhomers will just go and try touring in Europe anyway, even this year. The freedom to roam which the OP talks about might start to be worth trying t re-establish in 2022 but I wouldn’t be surprised if it only really starts happening for the less adventurous ones among us in 2023 or later. And since I’m already nearly 76, that might be too late for me.

[Steve928]

The interviewee on Radio 4 this morning (unsure if he was govt. or scientist etc.) made our chances of resuming foreign travel sound quite bleak. Basically the Green List of countries we'll be permitted to visit will be those with infection rates lower than our own. But those countries are unlikely to let us in because our infection rate is higher than theirs.. Continue ad infinitum.

 

"Foreign tourism is worth £23 billion to the UK in a normal year"

Wow, I didn't realise it was so low. That's inconsequential compared to what this government has been handing out in Covid-related contracts, or other contracts even i.e. it's 1/4 of the cost of HS2 which is going ahead despite us being advised not to use public transport. It's a strange world.

 

[BruceM]

Steve928 - 2021-04-19 4:30 PM

 

"Foreign tourism is worth £23 billion to the UK in a normal year"

Wow, I didn't realise it was so low.

Yep, Tourism as a whole is I think worth just over £110 billion per year to the UK (a lot of tourists are British). As an industry it’s also a massive UK employer (I think about 2.5 million jobs) so plays a key part in getting the economy going again so the UK can start paying off some of its debt. Given the recent pronouncements that the drop in infections is due to the lock down and not to the vaccination program then I think we have interesting times ahead. On the upside, if fully vaccinated the chance of dying from the virus is significantly reduced so if the infection rate climbs (probable) but the death rate remains at its current level then I can well envisage that that would be deemed as acceptable and travel restrictions would be relaxed.

[Bulletguy]

Steve928 - 2021-04-19 4:30 PM

 

The interviewee on Radio 4 this morning (unsure if he was govt. or scientist etc.) made our chances of resuming foreign travel sound quite bleak. Basically the Green List of countries we'll be permitted to visit will be those with infection rates lower than our own. But those countries are unlikely to let us in because our infection rate is higher than theirs.. Continue ad infinitum.

Apparently only USA, Iceland, Israel, Gibraltar, Malta, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand have made the Green List so far. Meantime tourists from all over the world will drop into Heathrow whilst it's illegal for British to travel abroad without a 'permitted reason'.

 

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice