rooster63 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Some friends of ours who had originally planned to go touring Europe for a year following retirement then obviously had their plans scuppered by Brexit because of the 90 day rule. They thought they had solved their problem as he has an Irish grandfather so has applied for an Irish passport which he thought would enable him and his wife to travel freely through Europe once COVID is no longer such a major health issue. On making enquiries with their insurance company they were told that as their van is UK registered the 90 day rule still applies. Does anybody know if that is right and if it is is there a way around it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 I suspect that the insurance company is confused. Most policies contain a clause which limits overseas travel to 90 days. It has no bearing on the 90 day rule in respect of residency/travel. I suggest you go back to your insurance company and request an extension to their clause on time spent outside UK. If not, shop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 The 90 day rule applies to the person, not to the vehicle. But, as Robert says above, the insurer will need to be informed of the likely maximum duration that the vehicle will be outside the UK, and of any countries to be visited that fall outside those defined in the "foreign use" part of the policy. He'd also be wise to explore the unoccupancy rules in his house/contents policies, as most set much lower limits, possibly down to 30 days. This should require no more than a premium adjustment for the additional time that his home will be unoccupied - though he may want to change insurer when he discovers how much! Your friend may also be wise to declare that he has dual nationality, and will be driving on a UK driving licence using his Irish nationality. I can't see why that should make a difference, but it may change his "risk profile" in the opinion of the insurer. He may also be wise to check whether using his UK driving licence in conjunction with his Irish passport when driving in the EU might cause complications if he is challenged. Again, I can't see why that should be a problem, but it may need some formal acknowledgement. I'd suggest he checks (DVLA?) whether an Irish national can legally drive on a UK driving licence once outside the UK? I have no idea - but it seems worth checking. However, anyone travelling with your friend (whether his wife or not) who holds only UK passport will be "a third country national" in Schengen terms, and will be subject to the 90 day rule. His Irish passport is personal to him, it won't throw a "cloak of invisibility" over anyone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-08-03 8:08 AM However, anyone travelling with your friend (whether his wife or not) who holds only UK passport will be "a third country national" in Schengen terms, and will be subject to the 90 day rule. His Irish passport is personal to him, it won't throw a "cloak of invisibility" over anyone else! are your sure about this statement.? my wife is Irish and got an irish passport and I've been told as her husband it also covers me for the 6 month trip to EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Who told you that? Is it a trusted source? Seems doubtful to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian81 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1. Ireland is not part of Schenegen. 2. Can only bring a vehicle into EU for 6 months, Will still need to be 'legal' in country of origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 teccer1234 - 2021-08-03 6:10 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-08-03 8:08 AM However, anyone travelling with your friend (whether his wife or not) who holds only UK passport will be "a third country national" in Schengen terms, and will be subject to the 90 day rule. His Irish passport is personal to him, it won't throw a "cloak of invisibility" over anyone else! are your sure about this statement.? my wife is Irish and got an irish passport and I've been told as her husband it also covers me for the 6 month trip to EU As sure as I can be. What you have been told would be (and has long been, irrespective of EU membership) true for travel in Ireland because the Common Travel Area rules apply, and as said above, Ireland is not in the Schengen area. However, the 90 days in 180 days rule (actual wording: "no more than 90 days in any 180 day period") applies to third country nationals once in the Schengen area and, as a UK passport holder, you will demonstrably be a third country national - so the rule would apply to you, but would not apply to your wife if she were travelling on her Irish passport. To enter mainland Europe with a motorhome you will pretty much have to cross the Schengen border on entry, and your 90 days period will start from, and include, that day and will be counted from then to the day you leave the Schengen area, including the day on which you leave. We have friends with Irish passports, but she was born in Ireland and has always held dual Irish/UK nationality, and they both live in Ireland where he has residency. He (UK born, UK passport holder) therefore became eligible for an Irish passport which, post Brexit, he applied for and was granted. The fudge all stops at the Schengen area borders! BTW, as a "third country national" you cannot take a "6 month's trip" to the EU. You can only stay for max 90 days, as above. That is as I understand the meaning of Regulation (EU) 2018/1806. But, if you have access to written confirmation that the spouse of an EU national (i.e. Irish) automatically has an exemption from the Schengen 90 day rule which allows them to accompany their spouse for up to six months while in the Schengen area, it would be helpful if you could quote (or better give a link to) the source, as I imagine one or two other people may well be interested in exploiting that exemption! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Apparently "Under EU rules, you have the right to travel together with your core family members (non-EU spouse, children, dependent parents or dependent grandparents) to an EU country other than the one you are a national of. If you have moved to another EU country, they can also join you there." https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm Of course if you are an EU national with place of residence outside the EU, e.g. UK, matter may be more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Hi, I don't know how this will affect us, as we live in N. Ireland and once we cross the border we are effectively in the EU. So we are leaving an EU country to cross over to another EU country. (i.e. France) with British Passports. Maybe we should get Irish passports to simplify things at the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Ninnian, As you know, I also live in N. Ireland but life is much more complex for us as when we enter the ROI we are in the common travel area and of course the EU. However the ROI is not part of Schengen and that is why when we are checking in at the ferry (and getting off in Cherbourg) our passports are checked. We have both UK and Irish passports and often use the Irish one (probably more from now on). I still haven’t got my head round exactly what is paperwork and or tests are needed for going to and returning from France via Ireland. Slightly complicated by the fact that the van is UK registered, but insured with Dolmen, an Irish broker for Axa. Also foodstuffs should technically be permitted since our journeys commence within the single market. Lots to get your head round. Back on topic, it is my understanding that being an EU citizen permits spouse or partner the same rights of access although a 3rd party citizen. It is what I take from the link provided earlier and I believe I have seen the same conclusion drawn on other forums. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 TeamRienza - 2021-08-04 1:09 Back on topic, it is my understanding that being an EU citizen permits spouse or partner the same rights of access although a 3rd party citizen. It is what I take from the link provided earlier and I believe I have seen the same conclusion drawn on other forums. Davy so if I read this right your saying that as my wife has an irish passport and mine is a UK passport I can got to the EU for 6 months ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Hi Teamrienza, Yes we are the same UK registered van and Insured through Dolmen. I think Irish Passports are on the cards for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 rayc - 2021-08-04 10:39 AM Apparently "Under EU rules, you have the right to travel together with your core family members (non-EU spouse, children, dependent parents or dependent grandparents) to an EU country other than the one you are a national of. If you have moved to another EU country, they can also join you there." https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm Of course if you are an EU national with place of residence outside the EU, e.g. UK, matter may be more complicated. Good find Ray! :-) It seems that, under the conditions set out in the "Directive on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States" here: https://tinyurl.com/24hk78uk (then download the directive as .pdf) there is a conditional right for a non-EU citizen to accompany an EU citizen, including for periods exceeding three months. The document is fairly complex (so worth saving a copy), but it appears to be up to date and in force. However, it would be wise to check the actual requirements with the various embassies for countries to be visited, as it is implied that these may vary as between EU states. But, it also appears you also sidestep the €7 ETIAS charge, so cherry on the cake! Unfortunately for us, neither of us has Irish (or other EU state) forebears to give us the hope of obtaining an EU passport. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Ninian - 2021-08-04 2:40 PM Hi Teamrienza, Yes we are the same UK registered van and Insured through Dolmen. I think Irish Passports are on the cards for next year. I believe it is the case that the Irish government decided some years ago that anyone normally resident in Northern Ireland was entitled (subject to the normal checks etc) to an Irish passport. If that is still the case, then get yourselves one each, and you thereby become Irish citizens and, when travelling in the EU with your Irish passports, should enjoy exactly the same rights of entry to Schengen, and stay, as you had with your UK passports pre Brexit. It's too good to miss out on, isn't it? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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