Another Gas question - 2 actually

[candapack]

I have a full 15kg Calor butane bottle. Got it years ago for a domestic gas fire in case of power cuts, never had to use it. Wondering how I can use it for the van in the current shortage.

1) Is there a way to transfer the gas to a smaller bottle?

2) The 15kg bottle will fit in the locker, ON ITS SIDE. Apparently, that is a bad idea, but why?

[witzend]

candapack - 2021-08-28 9:48 PM

 

2) The 15kg bottle will fit in the locker, ON ITS SIDE. Apparently, that is a bad idea, but why?

 

Because You'll get liquid LPG from the bottle into your system highly dangerous

 

You can pour gas one bottle to another full one upside down empty one your filling right way up underneath it some will say thats dangerous as well

[Robinhood]

candapack - 2021-08-28 9:48 PM

 

2) The 15kg bottle will fit in the locker, ON ITS SIDE. Apparently, that is a bad idea, but why?

 

...I won't comment on the 1st point, but as for this, gas cylinders for "domestic" use are limited to 80% fill such that the top of the cylinder contents are in gaseous state, and it is this that is delivered to 'van's the gas system. If you store and connect on the side, a cylinder that is substantially full will deliver its contents in a liquid state, and you really don't want that in any of the appliances in your 'van. (There's a good chance little will survive the combustion effect).

 

(LPG for propulsion, however, is delivered in a liquid state, and the take-off is generally from the bottom of the storage medium)

[StuartO]

Years ago, without knowing the risks, I had the relevant connectors soldered on to a length of copper pipe and connected two Calor bottles with one upside down on a bench and the other (smaller) one on the floor and when the bottle valves were opened liquid butane flowed downwards, filling the smaller bottle. After the sound of liquid flowing had stopped I shut the valves and disconnected, which released quite a bit of gas as the contents of the pipe escaped.

 

So it worked but you would need to fabricate a special connector pipe. I got someone to do it as a favour and I think it was silver soldered, requiring an acetylene gas torch. I wouldn’t do it again, knowing the risks.

[Derek Uzzell]

candapack - 2021-08-28 9:48 PM

 

1) Is there a way to transfer the gas to a smaller bottle?

 

 

The ‘gravity decanting’ method has been covered here in the past, relating to refilling smallish exchangeable Campingaz canisters from much larger capacity Calor bottles. It’s also discussed in this 2006 Yachting and Boating World forum thread.

 

https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/filling-empty-propane-cylinder-from-another-full-cylinder.108009/

 

As StuartO has said, the principle is simple enough, but you’d need to bodge up a means to connect the two bottles together and you’d have to ensure (by weighing) that the recipient bottle is not over-filled.

 

George Collings (ex-editor of MMM’s “Interchange” column) used to say that questions were sometimes asked where the his reply was “If you have to ask that question, the answer is DON'T” - and this is one of them.

 

 

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-08-29 9:02 AM

 

..... and you’d have to ensure (by weighing) that the recipient bottle is not over-filled.

 

 

 

...otherwise the issues are the same as using the cylinder on its side - the risk of delivering liquid LPG, rather than gas.

[weldted]

If you Have to fill a bottle by decanting, make up some sort of cradle where the donor bottle is upside down but the valve is only as high as halfway up the receiving bottle. Thus you will only get half the bottle in and no risk liquid entering your system.

[747]

That will not work and is dangerous to suggest I'm afraid.

 

The only way (if you have to do it) is by the weight method, so use accurate scales.

[PJM]

Why not transport it in the locker then remove it and stand upright, leave it to settle and then use it outside of the locker. I know some will disagree but has to be safer than decanting gas.

[stevec176]

As there's a shortage of bottles and you obviously don't need this bottle why not sell it. It’s easier than trying to explain the accident on the insurance claim form once you get out of hospital of course.

[candapack]

Thanks everyone. Should have known about using a bottle on its side.

Decanting seems like too much faff.

Transporting it on its side and then using it externally is a possibility.

FYI, was at a site the other day (Mortonhall, Edinburgh), they had plenty red and blue for exchanging, still not able to sell bottles though.

[Clive_Adams]

How about just trading it for a smaller one and taking the hit, think getting gas if you have a bottle is still pretty doable, getting a new bottle on contract seams to be the problem. The Callor Gas site normally tells you what you can exchange...

[Derek Uzzell]

The following link

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/advice/returns#gas-bottle-exchange

 

shows the current 5 groups of Calor bottles within which one bottle can be exchanged for another of a different gas-type and or capacity, and it will be seen that Calor’s policy permits a 15kg butane bottle to be exchanged only for a 12kg butane or a 13kg propane canister. In practice, Calor agents may take an even more rigid stance and insist on bottle-exchange being on an exact like-for-like basis (eg. 15kg butane for 15kg butane, or 13kg propane for 13kg propane).

 

For what it’s worth, the ‘gravity decanting’ method of transferring liquid gas from one bottle to another was discussed here in these 2014 and 2007 forum threads

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/-swap-gas-bottles/25287/

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-Transfer-Cylinder-to-Cylinder/5972/

 

Transferring liquid gas from a Calor 15kg butane canister to a smaller-capacity bottle using ‘gravity decanting’ will be practicable using a commercially available gas-hose and the appropriate connection adapters, but one would need to know what one was doing.

 

Transporting a 15kg Calor bottle on its side in a gas-locker seems like a hare-brained idea to me. The weight of a full 15kg bottle is at least 30kg and the locker will have not been designed to safely secure a ‘horizontal’ bottle - and, of course, while the bottle is in the locker it cannot be used to fuel the motorhome’s gas appliances. When the motorhome is parked up, the bottle would need to be manhandled out of the locker and connected to the motorhome’s gas system: that’s going to need a long gas hose and very likely the sight of a big gas bottle sitting outside a motorhome and connected to it won’t win approval on many campsites.

 

(I noticed the following comment from Chris (candapack) in another recent forum thread "My wife usually looks at my DIY efforts and says something like "well, you never claimed to be any good at that sort of thing” so perhaps it would be wise for Chris to forget transferring the gas and leave the 15kg bottle at home. ;-) )

[candapack]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-08-31 7:58 AM

 

(I noticed the following comment from Chris (candapack) in another recent forum thread "My wife usually looks at my DIY efforts and says something like "well, you never claimed to be any good at that sort of thing” so perhaps it would be wise for Chris to forget transferring the gas and leave the 15kg bottle at home. ;-) )

 

Probably a fair point Derek.