fesspark Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 what is the cost of a 90 day extension certificate for spain or france. per couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Is there such a thing? If there is I can't find it, only reference to not being able to extend the 90 days. I did find this, Spain's Non-Lucrative Visa allows non-EU citizens to live in Spain provided they are able to support themselves financially. It is used by those planning to retire to Spain and is an option for British retirees and other people who do not plan to work in Spain now that the UK is no longer a member of the EU. Citizens of the United States need to pay a fee of €123. Citizens of Canada need to €507 for a Spanish non-lucrative visa. An amount of €80 is required from the nationals of other world countries for the processing of this visa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 As far as I know the only way to extend the 90 day limit is to apply for a "visado no lucrativo" colloquially referred to as the retirement visa. It is the preferred means for non-EU nationals with sufficient savings/income to get round the 90 out of 180 days rule. It is a temporary residence visa which lasts for one year, but can be extended for 2 years and then again for 2 years after which you would be expected to apply for residency. With tax and other implications. It depends on proving sufficient income to support yourself. If a British couple is applying, you need to prove €33,894 (£29,300) annually in savings or a monthly income through investments, pensions or other assets of €2,824 (£2,441) a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Do you not also have to prove some form of permanent residence? Flat, house, or whatever, owned, or rented/leased on a long term basis? Could visiting with a motorhome qualify, even if a campsite pitch had been booked/reserved for, say, six months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-08-31 8:32 AM Do you not also have to prove some form of permanent residence? Flat, house, or whatever, owned, or rented/leased on a long term basis? Could visiting with a motorhome qualify, even if a campsite pitch had been booked/reserved for, say, six months? Good question to which I do not know the answer. It is obligatory to still apply for a TIE residency card once the NLV’ (non-lucrative visa) has been obtained and that implies an address, owned or rented. Whether that can be a long term campsite pitch I do not know. Personally I would doubt it, since it runs counter to the purpose of the VISA. Arguably you aren't headed for long term residency if your abode has a wheel at each corner. Spain’s Royal Decree evidently states that sufficient financial means “will not exceed the level of resources by which social subsidies are granted to Spaniards or the amount of the minimum Social Security pension”. The Spanish government is referring to the IPREM, an indicator that in 2021 stands at €564.90 (£488.34 with the current exchange rate) per month. The standard financial requirement for non-lucrative visa applicants is 400 percent of the IPREM: So €2,259 (£1,952) per month. Remember if you’re renewing the non-lucrative visa for the first and second time, then you will have to prove you have 800 percent of the IPREM as the renewed residence permit is valid for two years. In the case of an individual that is €54,230 (£46,869) they will need to prove they have available. If a British couple is applying, it’s €67,788 (£58,600) If this all sounds more coherent than my usual contributions it is because it is lifted from the TheLocal.es here. https://www.thelocal.es/20210304/how-the-non-lucrative-visa-allows-brits-to-spend-more-than-90-days-in-spain/ You may be able to access the article in full (some are free) or you can subscribe for a €34.99 for an annual subscription. It also get you access to all the other country versions. As well as Spain, The Local has versions in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland. Personally I find it invaluable. In practice evidently, depending upon where you are applying from, (Bejing, Moscow, Pyongyang etc) the actual minimum income proof required can vary and can be upwards of €30,000 . Also the application of the financial tests can vary by Spanish region. Presumably because the minimum amount of social security varies according to the local cost of living. Honestly I don't think it is a route to extended stays in Spain, because of the health Insurance implications over regular travel insurance; because of the potential tax residency if you stay over 180 days; and because, I think, your intended use and the intended use of the visa are not the same. You would presumably looking for a long or longer than 90 day stay, the NLV (non-lucrative visa) I think is based on the assumption hat you are starting down the road to Residency. Those are quite different goals. If Spain wishes to accommodate extended stays for second home owners and motorhomes then I think it will need to come up with a special visa to do so. Whether its worth it for them to do that we will see, and whether that presents any difficulties for the government viz a viz its wider Schengen responsibilities? Who knows? If in doubt check with a Spanish visa specialist law firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 To which excellent information, I suppose (with motorhomers in mind), must be added a caution to check whether holding this visa is accepted outside Spain as over-riding the Schengen area limit of 90 days in 180. It suggests to me that one would have to take a direct ferry to Spain, so that no part of one's journey traversed any other Schengen state in order to avoid the "incriminating" passport entry/departure stamps or, post 2023, electronic ETIAS recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-08-31 10:29 AM To which excellent information, I suppose (with motorhomers in mind), must be added a caution to check whether holding this visa is accepted outside Spain as over-riding the Schengen area limit of 90 days in 180. It suggests to me that one would have to take a direct ferry to Spain, so that no part of one's journey traversed any other Schengen state in order to avoid the "incriminating" passport entry/departure stamps or, post 2023, electronic ETIAS recording. Yes, that's a bugbear. Early in the year I was investigating a Portuguese holiday home purchase and Schengen access (90 days in 180) vs longer term access possibilities provided by the Portuguese Golden Visa (320k house purchase or @280k out in the sticks). It became clear that, the Portuguese Golden Visa, although it allowed you unlimited access to Portugal through-out the year with a two week minimum stay/annum, provided no additional access to other Schengen area countries. So if you went directly to Spain (or any other Schengen area country) for over 90 days in 180 from Portugal you would be overstaying in the Schengen area. Practically I can't see how that gets enforced apart from tracking your phone or your credit/debit card spend, given there are no border controls. But even if you went from Portugal to Spain for 20 days, for instance, and had an accident, and had to produce your passport, the absence of a relevant entry stamp (or ETIAS record post 2023), would I think raise some questions. I imagine they would be satisfied with the Portuguese Golden Visa and any evidence you could produce that supported a short stay but that's not guaranteed. Technically to avoid breaking the rules I concluded I would need to fly in and out of Portugal to the UK and then enter Spain via a route that got my passport stamped (or the ETIAS equivalent). But since I decided not to pursue it I did not check further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesspark Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 a friend of mine who has not long returned from the algarve, is known as a wild camper, and is returning this month says he can get an extension to the 90 days by paying 80 euros for it but that is all i can tell you as i am not in permanent contact with him. Over the last ten years he has spent far more time in Portugal and the algarve than here in England, but then along came Brexit !!! fesspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 For those thinking this may be a way to circumvent and dodge around the 90 day rule I think they're going to be disappointed as the Non-Lucrative Residence Visa is aimed at people intending to live in Spain, not dodge back 'n forth as and when it suits. Those days are gone now and the clue is in the title "Residence". All applicants must have a private health insurance policy with full coverage in Spain with no copayments provided by a Spanish insurance company for at least one year. You must prove that you have 400% of the IPREM annually in your bank account. For third country national visa applications, for example a non-lucrative (retirement) visa, you need to demonstrate proof of 400% IPREM with a 100% extra per beneficiary (spouse, child etc), so for 2021, here’s an example: Main applicant: 400% IPREM = €2,259.60 p/month or €27,115.20 lump sum for 1 year Beneficiary 1: + 100% IPREM = +€2,824.50 p/month or €33,894 lump sum for 1 year You must spend a minimum of 183 days in the country to be able to renew. This also means that you will become tax resident and taxable on your worldwide income (subject to double tax treaties). And finally, as a part of your application, you will need to attend a visa interview at the nearest Spanish Consulate in your country of residence. On the day of the interview, you will: 1) Meet with a visa consular for the interview. 2) Submit the supporting document to the interview 3) Give your biometrics – fingerprints and facial image – if you have not traveled to the Schengen territory in the last five years. 4) Pay the visa fee. Check how the Spanish authorities have regulated this issue in your country of residence. You may need to pay in cash, money order or certified check. https://www.expatnetwork.com/spains-non-lucrative-visa-a-good-option-for-those-retiring-to-spain/ This thread on a Spanish forum for Brit immigrants deals with the question but of course they have a property there and intend to become resident. https://www.expatforum.com/threads/non-lucrative-visa-application-to-spain.1515284/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 fesspark - 2021-08-30 4:39 PM what is the cost of a 90 day extension certificate for spain or france. per couple. If only it were that simple *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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