colin Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:06 PM colin - 2021-11-24 1:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:43 AM colin - 2021-11-24 9:15 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:54 AM Where is your evidence that its not? ;-) ............ The retraining module that I had to do in September to be able to deliver Pfizer and Moderna because "it is unlikely that we will continue to use AZ in the future". Have you noticed that the yanks haven't licenced it? After 90 days Pfizer is 78% effective at cutting high viral load of Delta variant, AZ is only 61%, that's why Pfizer/Moderna is now the preferred choice. But over the longer term AZ lasts longer ;-) .......... https://www.firstpost.com/health/astrazenecas-vaccine-effectiveness-against-coivd-19-lasts-longer-than-pfizers-finds-study-9899721.html Which is why it makes sense for the Pfizer/Moderna jab to be used as a winter boosters, as we already have the benefit of the AZ jab doing the heavy lifting in our immune systems B-) ........... The latest studies find this is not true, especially against the Delta and SA variants, AZ was ok as a 'sticking plaster' to get a fast coverage, we now need better protection, which is why the considerably more expensive Pfizer/Modener is now being used. Evidence? ;-) ......... I've told you the actual percentages yet you still don't believe them, go find the evidence of your post, give the actual percentages. p.s. I'll give you a clue (and amend my statement from earlier post) it's the same study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:06 PM colin - 2021-11-24 1:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:43 AM colin - 2021-11-24 9:15 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:54 AM Where is your evidence that its not? ;-) ............ The retraining module that I had to do in September to be able to deliver Pfizer and Moderna because "it is unlikely that we will continue to use AZ in the future". Have you noticed that the yanks haven't licenced it? After 90 days Pfizer is 78% effective at cutting high viral load of Delta variant, AZ is only 61%, that's why Pfizer/Moderna is now the preferred choice. But over the longer term AZ lasts longer ;-) .......... https://www.firstpost.com/health/astrazenecas-vaccine-effectiveness-against-coivd-19-lasts-longer-than-pfizers-finds-study-9899721.html Which is why it makes sense for the Pfizer/Moderna jab to be used as a winter boosters, as we already have the benefit of the AZ jab doing the heavy lifting in our immune systems B-) ........... The latest studies find this is not true, especially against the Delta and SA variants, AZ was ok as a 'sticking plaster' to get a fast coverage, we now need better protection, which is why the considerably more expensive Pfizer/Modener is now being used. Evidence? ;-) ......... https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everything-you-need-to-know-about-covid-19-vaccines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 8:05 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:06 PM colin - 2021-11-24 1:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:43 AM colin - 2021-11-24 9:15 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:54 AM Where is your evidence that its not? ;-) ............ The retraining module that I had to do in September to be able to deliver Pfizer and Moderna because "it is unlikely that we will continue to use AZ in the future". Have you noticed that the yanks haven't licenced it? After 90 days Pfizer is 78% effective at cutting high viral load of Delta variant, AZ is only 61%, that's why Pfizer/Moderna is now the preferred choice. But over the longer term AZ lasts longer ;-) .......... https://www.firstpost.com/health/astrazenecas-vaccine-effectiveness-against-coivd-19-lasts-longer-than-pfizers-finds-study-9899721.html Which is why it makes sense for the Pfizer/Moderna jab to be used as a winter boosters, as we already have the benefit of the AZ jab doing the heavy lifting in our immune systems B-) ........... The latest studies find this is not true, especially against the Delta and SA variants, AZ was ok as a 'sticking plaster' to get a fast coverage, we now need better protection, which is why the considerably more expensive Pfizer/Modener is now being used. Evidence? ;-) ......... https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everything-you-need-to-know-about-covid-19-vaccines Should have let the bone idle sod search himself as he's quick to demand evidence from others yet regularly posts without citing sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 8:05 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:06 PM colin - 2021-11-24 1:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:43 AM colin - 2021-11-24 9:15 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:54 AM Where is your evidence that its not? ;-) ............ The retraining module that I had to do in September to be able to deliver Pfizer and Moderna because "it is unlikely that we will continue to use AZ in the future". Have you noticed that the yanks haven't licenced it? After 90 days Pfizer is 78% effective at cutting high viral load of Delta variant, AZ is only 61%, that's why Pfizer/Moderna is now the preferred choice. But over the longer term AZ lasts longer ;-) .......... https://www.firstpost.com/health/astrazenecas-vaccine-effectiveness-against-coivd-19-lasts-longer-than-pfizers-finds-study-9899721.html Which is why it makes sense for the Pfizer/Moderna jab to be used as a winter boosters, as we already have the benefit of the AZ jab doing the heavy lifting in our immune systems B-) ........... The latest studies find this is not true, especially against the Delta and SA variants, AZ was ok as a 'sticking plaster' to get a fast coverage, we now need better protection, which is why the considerably more expensive Pfizer/Modener is now being used. Evidence? ;-) ......... https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everything-you-need-to-know-about-covid-19-vaccines Have you read your link? :-S .......... "The latest consensus judgement of the Vaccine Effectiveness Expert Panel (27 August 2021), which comprises scientific and analytical specialists from academia and government in the UK, is that protection against symptomatic disease from the currently circulating variant (Delta) after two doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is around 70%. Protection against hospitalisation and death is about 95% after two doses." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:41 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 8:05 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:06 PM colin - 2021-11-24 1:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:43 AM colin - 2021-11-24 9:15 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:54 AM Where is your evidence that its not? ;-) ............ The retraining module that I had to do in September to be able to deliver Pfizer and Moderna because "it is unlikely that we will continue to use AZ in the future". Have you noticed that the yanks haven't licenced it? After 90 days Pfizer is 78% effective at cutting high viral load of Delta variant, AZ is only 61%, that's why Pfizer/Moderna is now the preferred choice. But over the longer term AZ lasts longer ;-) .......... https://www.firstpost.com/health/astrazenecas-vaccine-effectiveness-against-coivd-19-lasts-longer-than-pfizers-finds-study-9899721.html Which is why it makes sense for the Pfizer/Moderna jab to be used as a winter boosters, as we already have the benefit of the AZ jab doing the heavy lifting in our immune systems B-) ........... The latest studies find this is not true, especially against the Delta and SA variants, AZ was ok as a 'sticking plaster' to get a fast coverage, we now need better protection, which is why the considerably more expensive Pfizer/Modener is now being used. Evidence? ;-) ......... https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everything-you-need-to-know-about-covid-19-vaccines Have you read your link? :-S .......... "The latest consensus judgement of the Vaccine Effectiveness Expert Panel (27 August 2021), which comprises scientific and analytical specialists from academia and government in the UK, is that protection against symptomatic disease from the currently circulating variant (Delta) after two doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is around 70%. Protection against hospitalisation and death is about 95% after two doses." Yes, all of it, not just a scan read to cherry pick a sentence which I think supports my argument. If you do read all of it you may begin to understand the move away from AZ by the scientists and why the government doesn't want to publisise this quiet change of direction because it doesnt suit their "Britain is always the best" agenda. It was a good and useful vaccine that served a purpose at a point in time. But the bottom line is that it isnt as good and has more safety issues compared to mRNA vaccines, which is why it won't get a license in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-25 9:04 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:41 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 8:05 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:06 PM colin - 2021-11-24 1:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:43 AM colin - 2021-11-24 9:15 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-24 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:54 AM Where is your evidence that its not? ;-) ............ The retraining module that I had to do in September to be able to deliver Pfizer and Moderna because "it is unlikely that we will continue to use AZ in the future". Have you noticed that the yanks haven't licenced it? After 90 days Pfizer is 78% effective at cutting high viral load of Delta variant, AZ is only 61%, that's why Pfizer/Moderna is now the preferred choice. But over the longer term AZ lasts longer ;-) .......... https://www.firstpost.com/health/astrazenecas-vaccine-effectiveness-against-coivd-19-lasts-longer-than-pfizers-finds-study-9899721.html Which is why it makes sense for the Pfizer/Moderna jab to be used as a winter boosters, as we already have the benefit of the AZ jab doing the heavy lifting in our immune systems B-) ........... The latest studies find this is not true, especially against the Delta and SA variants, AZ was ok as a 'sticking plaster' to get a fast coverage, we now need better protection, which is why the considerably more expensive Pfizer/Modener is now being used. Evidence? ;-) ......... https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everything-you-need-to-know-about-covid-19-vaccines Have you read your link? :-S .......... "The latest consensus judgement of the Vaccine Effectiveness Expert Panel (27 August 2021), which comprises scientific and analytical specialists from academia and government in the UK, is that protection against symptomatic disease from the currently circulating variant (Delta) after two doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is around 70%. Protection against hospitalisation and death is about 95% after two doses." Yes, all of it, not just a scan read to cherry pick a sentence which I think supports my argument. If you do read all of it you may begin to understand the move away from AZ by the scientists and why the government doesn't want to publisise this quiet change of direction because it doesnt suit their "Britain is always the best" agenda. It was a good and useful vaccine that served a purpose at a point in time. But the bottom line is that it isnt as good and has more safety issues compared to mRNA vaccines, which is why it won't get a license in the USA. Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... But no doubt you'll keep on defending thier mind numbing incompetence like a good little EU toady >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Some interesting insights as to some of the problems the likes of Germany and (maybe soon) France will suffer, they where not slow on the uptake of vaccines, they got far ahead of the UK in getting people fully vaccinated, this has meant they are suffering from a greater drop off of immunity, they realised that those who had AZ would suffer so advised boosters for these, but where slow to realise Pfizer would need a booster, couple this with more people going back to work, and voila you have a problem. It seems they have become a victim of their own success in getting people vaccinated and opening up economy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ You being the maths wizard that you are, a little puzzle for you. How many French and German citizens will have to die before they over take the UK on a deaths per capita? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-25 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ You being the maths wizard that you are, a little puzzle for you. How many French and German citizens will have to die before they over take the UK on a deaths per capita? That's not very nice is it?........tempting fate 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-26 9:51 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-25 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ You being the maths wizard that you are, a little puzzle for you. How many French and German citizens will have to die before they over take the UK on a deaths per capita? That's not very nice is it?........tempting fate 8-) .......... Is it that you can't do the maths or that having done the maths it has slowly dawned on you just how bad this government has done by its people with its "let the bodies pile high in the streets" herd immunity strategy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-26 10:08 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-26 9:51 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-25 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ You being the maths wizard that you are, a little puzzle for you. How many French and German citizens will have to die before they over take the UK on a deaths per capita? That's not very nice is it?........tempting fate 8-) .......... Is it that you can't do the maths or that having done the maths it has slowly dawned on you just how bad this government has done by its people with its "let the bodies pile high in the streets" herd immunity strategy? Talking of herd immunity........it seems to have worked in Sweden? ;-) ........... So why is that (?) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-26 10:12 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-26 10:08 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-26 9:51 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-25 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ You being the maths wizard that you are, a little puzzle for you. How many French and German citizens will have to die before they over take the UK on a deaths per capita? That's not very nice is it?........tempting fate 8-) .......... Is it that you can't do the maths or that having done the maths it has slowly dawned on you just how bad this government has done by its people with its "let the bodies pile high in the streets" herd immunity strategy? Talking of herd immunity........it seems to have worked in Sweden? ;-) ........... So why is that (?) .......... It hasnt worked in Sweden, look at its Scandinavian neighbours for a comparison. Still good to see you now admitting that Johnson was following herd immunity - at a time before vaccines were available and when every expert was saying you cannot attain herd immunity without a vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 6:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 11:25 AM......................................... 1 Well obviously Britain is always best or why else would we be managing the Pandemic so much better than the EU ;-) .......... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10240927/ALEX-BRUMMER-Boris-Johnsons-gamble-reopen-economy-Covid-lockdowns-paid-off.html 2 If Merkel & Macron and hadn't slagged off the AZ vaccine they wouldn't be in the situation they are now would they? *-) ......... .......... 1 You didn't read the article then? It's about the economy, written by an economist (you know, one of those experts you distrust). It doesn't deal with the cost in lives of prioritising the economy over managing the pandemic. It follows the "let the bodies pile high" line of argument. So, which is the more valuable; life, or money? Kill of even more of your population, and what then happens to your economy? 8-) 2 Who knows? All that can be said with certainty, is that the outcomes would have been different. The point you are missing is that had Germany or France adopted mass vaccination earlier, both should have performed even better against Covid than they did. In terms of both deaths per 1M population, and total cases, both have done better to date than the UK, so had they vaccinated earlier those differences should have been more pronounced than they are. Sorry, your point was? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1.........So Merkel & Macron proritised lives by slagging off the AZ vaccine? 8-) ......... 2.........To date........Todays deaths UK 147.........France 222.........Germanys 315......Perhaps your laughing is premature :-| ........ 1 No Dave. I was answering your 11:25 AM point 1 above, which is about the UK having (according to Alex Brummer, economist) managed its economy better than forecast, and better than is now being achieved by Germany. You, and you alone, then interpret this as meaning that we have managed the pandemic better than has been achieved by Germany. Your problem with this line of reasoning is that you are comparing apples (disease management) with pomegranates (economic management). It is perfectly possible to do either well, or badly, simultaneously, and success with the one does not automatically translate into success with the other. Your point is based on chop logic. Your 8:24 point 1 is about something completely different, which is whether by casting doubt on the efficacy of the AZ vaccine Merkel (and for some reason Macron, who is French, not German) may have damaged their Covid responses (note, disease management, so not economic management) . Hence my reply above. The point is speculative, and cannot be proved. It is possible - but as both countries, despite their slow starts, have done better overall with Covid management than the UK, it seems early mass vaccination with AZ does not provide a guaranteed route to superior Covid management. 2 If the test for superior Covid management is to be the number of cases and/or deaths in UK, France, and Germany, then the UK (10,021,497 / 144,433 respectively) has suffered more of both than either France (7,516,746 / 118,777) or Germany (5,623,047 / 100,796), so must be judged inferior and Germany (especially taking account of its larger population), superior. BTW, your figures are not, as you state "to date" but just the latest available increase in deaths for each country. They will be different tomorrow, and were different yesterday. All they prove is that the pandemic is not yet under control. Also, if you're quoting 147 deaths for the UK, and 315 for Germany, the corresponding figure for France should be 43, not 222. Perhaps you can now understand why it is necessary to use numbers to clarify, answer, and untangle, your tangled posts? On this basis, I think more laughter is now due! (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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