Back to Europe in 2023 ACSI Card

[HymerVan]

A reasonably experienced Euro traveller I am thinking about returning to Europe this year, the first time since 2019. Possibly leaving mid April (or possibly early June) for several weeks Countries visited likely to be :-

Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, France. Switzerland, Slovenia, Slovakia, possibly. 

Would appreciate any comments or assistance including :-

a) What is the typical site discount window for ACSI ?

b) Apart from 90 day rule food import rules and import limits and document issues including health card and UK plate what practical issues arise since Brexit.

c) Any issues caused by Ukraine war. 

[Philjp]

I have been told Switzerland is not in Shengen. And to get your passport stamped on entry and departure if you dont any days spent in Switzerland are included  in your Brexit 90day rule

[colin]

9 minutes ago, Philjp said:

I have been told Switzerland is not in Shengen. And to get your passport stamped on entry and departure if you dont any days spent in Switzerland are included  in your Brexit 90day rule

You have been told wrong, Switzerland is part of Schengen area.

[laimeduck]

Nothing much has changed, other than  ..... it's generally more expensive everywhere ...... there are fewer ACSI sites (the discount is generally OK til early June) ....... Croatia is now in Shengen and uses the Euro ..... Putin is still bogged down in Ukraine through ineptitude .... the French Autoroute charges will increase about 5% at the start of February and French fuel prices have risen in the last week as Macron has taken off the discount .... there are more LEZ zones around .... If over 3500kg in France you will need 3 stylish Angles Morts stickers defacing your van ........

Probably best to sift through the search function on these forums and make an informed decision, or google specific queries, than accept some of the statements made on these threads. (ref Switzerland above!)

Jeremy

[Derek Uzzell]

The 27 Schengen countries are Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

[HymerVan]

37 minutes ago, Derek Uzzell said:

The 27 Schengen countries are Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

Derek good to see that you have returned to the fold.

I was about to pick you up for not having the Schengen countries in alphabetical order but I must apologise and forgive because Croatia has only just joined. I am friendly with a Slovenian family and for them Croatias entry is a big deal just from a convenience point of view and of course they welcome the currency change as well. 😀

[Brian Kirby]

3 hours ago, HymerVan said:

A reasonably experienced Euro traveller I am thinking about returning to Europe this year, the first time since 2019. Possibly leaving mid April (or possibly early June) for several weeks Countries visited likely to be :-

Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, France. Switzerland, Slovenia, Slovakia, possibly. 

Would appreciate any comments or assistance including :-

a) What is the typical site discount window for ACSI ?

b) Apart from 90 day rule food import rules and import limits and document issues including health card and UK plate what practical issues arise since Brexit.

c) Any issues caused by Ukraine war. 

a)  The sites set their own terms and conditions as regards when they open and close, and when they will give the ACSI Card discount.  The current (2023) discounted prices range between €13 and €23 in €2 increments.  Few seem to remove the discount over the Easter break (I haven't specifically checked for this, but assume some may) and the great majority, if not all, remove it over the school summer holidays (which generally seem to commence around 1 July) and reinstate it sometime between mid August and 1 September.  But, it is necessary to check each sit individually.  Probably the easiest and quickest check is via the ACSI Card website, here: https://tinyurl.com/2f9wgu44 

b)  I'm still trying to get to the bottom of how this is intended to work.  The EU/Schengen rules are set out in COMMISSION DELEGATED REGULATION (EU) 2019/2122 of 10 October 2019, but they are a bit difficult to unpack.  Essentially, the Regulation bans the importation to the EU of any "products of animal origin and composite products".  This ban extends to certain plant and plant derived items, although it seems mainly concerned with living plant material and plants for planting, rather than vegetables and/or salad items intended for imminent consumption.  So, meat, milk, butter, eggs etc. (or uncooked foods containing same) cannot be imported, and nor can your pet aspidistra!  Also permitted is eviscerated fish to a limit of 20kg - or a single eviscerated fish if larger!!  If you have the patience/stamina, your take on this would be instructive.  My overall view is that it could do with rewriting!  😞 

However, Article 6 of the Regulation then appears to grant an exemption from controls for defined quantities of such goods which form part of a "passenger's luggage", carried on board a "means of transport operating internationally" and intended for consumption by the "passengers and crew".  I e-mailed the EU Contact Centre for clarification, particularly regarding the interpretation of this vis a vis a privately owned, UK registered, motorhome and occupants entering the EU.  Is the driver "crew" ("passengers" is obvious enough) and would such a vehicle fall within the meaning of "means of transport" and would entering the EU from the UK constitute "operating internationally".  In the end, they referred me to the individual states customs authorities!  So, I have now posed the same questions to the French douaniers via the French embassy in London.

My confusion over what this means arises because, notwithstanding the Regulation and its Article 6, we entered France on 1 September 2022 for 7 weeks and, apart from stamping our passports in and out (essential for proof of 90 days in 180 days compliance) no-one took the slightest notice of us: no questions, no checks.  This appeared to bear out the exemption.  And yet, there were later reports, including on this forum, of people being instructed to bin all such items before being allowed to enter - albeit, IIRC, at other entry ports.  Fog in Channel, Europe cut off!  🙂  If I get a clear, helpful, answer from the Embassy, I'll post further.

There were no Covid/health questions/checks on entry.

While in France we saw quite a few UK registered vehicles with Euro/GB number plates (both with, and minus, the required UK sticker), plain UK type numberplates (both with, and minus, the required UK sticker), and others with compliant Union Flag UK numberplates.  At the time we had Euro/GB numberplates plus UK sticker.  However, we now have new numberplates with UK and no Union Flag - but getting DfT to concede that this format is a) perfectly legal in the UK and b) equally legal under the Vienna Convention on International Traffic, was like pulling teeth!

We confined out travels to France, and no Ukraine related issues arose.  I'd guess any such issues would be more likely the further east one wandered.

[colin]

48 minutes ago, Brian Kirby said:

 

My confusion over what this means arises because, notwithstanding the Regulation and its Article 6, we entered France on 1 September 2022 for 7 weeks and, apart from stamping our passports in and out (essential for proof of 90 days in 180 days compliance) no-one took the slightest notice of us: no questions, no checks.  This appeared to bear out the exemption.  And yet, there were later reports, including on this forum, of people being instructed to bin all such items before being allowed to enter - albeit, IIRC, at other entry ports. 

I'm not sure why you think not being checked means something is allowed, I'm guessing you didn't get asked or checked if you where bringing in heroin, firearms etc. Having looked further into the regs I have found that whilst it mentioned personal baggage it then specifically excludes UK residents from bringing in meat and dairy in that baggage, this would indicate that the foods alluded to are not meat and dairy.  

[HymerVan]

Thanks very much for contributions so far. I am reassured that there are no major issues or changes to deal with or at any rate any that I was not broadly aware of. 

I would not attempt to dissect the European "food regulations" for a number of reasons not least because I have not been trained to do so but what I do remember is that in general European courts adopt a more purposive approach to interpretation, in other words they look at what they think the regulations are setting out to achieve and I think the regulations are about biosecurity risks introduced by third countries. Being risk adverse we will travel with an empty fridge and stop at the first Supermarket we come to. Black coffee is fine !!

[Robinhood]

We returned to Europe late last year. (As per my trip report posted elsewhere, we would have gone earlier in the year, but.... 😉 ).

We found little practical restriction over and above previous circumstances. Those that did exist have largely been covered already.

We modified our normal outward travel to ensure we could get a relaxed visit to a supermarket once we were across the channel, so any possible effects of restricted food import were bypassed. (There's very little that we would favour that isn't available or substitutable on the continent!).

Whilst generally Covid restrictions on travel have largely disappeared (and lets hop it stays that way), there are still local rules and practices that you might come up against. For instance, in Germany travel on public transport still requires the use of a facemask, and often the use of a higher-spec FFP2 mask is mandated. (It varies by state, but best to be prepared). In case we came up against such restrictions, I bought a small pack of FFP2 masks in the UK, and we carried them with us. They're obviously widely available to buy in Germany though.

I suspect that there may be a number of further local restrictions/rules you might come up against across Europe, but they're hardly over-prohibitive.

I think I'd be wary of heading too far East in Slovakia. Given that it shares a border with Ukraine, I suspect there may be some "fallout" (pun intended) from the war. The waves of refugees heading West have caused some disruption, simply by numbers and travel patterns.

We found Germany in particular somewhat "subdued" at the end of last year - a natural knock-on of the pandemic, the war, and the cost of living, but it didn't detract overly from our enjoyment of being back and travelling again.

Go for it, and enjoy!    

[Brian Kirby]

16 hours ago, colin said:

1  I'm not sure why you think not being checked means something is allowed, I'm guessing you didn't get asked or checked if you where bringing in heroin, firearms etc.

2  Having looked further into the regs I have found that whilst it mentioned personal baggage it then specifically excludes UK residents from bringing in meat and dairy in that baggage, this would indicate that the foods alluded to are not meat and dairy.  

1  I'm not making any assumptions, Colin.  I'm trying to eliminate any assumptions so as to be clear exactly what the rules are, in order to comply with them.  Back before we joined the EEC it was normal to be asked, during entry formalities, whether one had "anything to declare".  So, I was expecting at least the question and was surprised that no customs checks whatever were visible, let alone active, when we entered.  Hence my curiosity over the said Article 6 and its status/applicability to motorhomes.

2  In which vein, could you please say which regulation/s you looked into, and where it specifically excludes UK residents from taking in meat and dairy items, as I was unable to find anything that specific?  Thanks.

[colin]

1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said:

1  I'm not making any assumptions, Colin.  I'm trying to eliminate any assumptions so as to be clear exactly what the rules are, in order to comply with them.  Back before we joined the EEC it was normal to be asked, during entry formalities, whether one had "anything to declare".  So, I was expecting at least the question and was surprised that no customs checks whatever were visible, let alone active, when we entered.  Hence my curiosity over the said Article 6 and its status/applicability to motorhomes.

2  In which vein, could you please say which regulation/s you looked into, and where it specifically excludes UK residents from taking in meat and dairy items, as I was unable to find anything that specific?  Thanks.

As you know the main document is here.

EUR-Lex - 32019R2122 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

LETS TAKE ARTICLE 7

[quote]

Article 7

Goods which form part of passengers’ personal luggage and are intended for personal consumption or use

Products of animal origin, composite products, products derived from animal by-products, plants, plant products and other objects which form part of passengers’ personal luggage and which are intended for personal consumption or use, are exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that they belong to at least one of the following categories:

(a)	goods listed in Part 1 of Annex I provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 2 kg;

(b)	eviscerated fresh fishery products or prepared fishery products, or processed fishery products provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 20 kg or the weight of one fish, whichever weight is the highest;

(c)	goods other than those referred to in points (a) and (b) of this article and other than those referred to in Part 2 of Annex I, provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 2 kg;

(d)	plants, other than plants for planting, plant products and other objects;

(e)	goods, other than plants for planting, coming from Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, San Marino or Switzerland;

(f)	fishery products coming from the Faroe Islands or Greenland;

(g)

goods, other than plants for planting and other than fishery products, coming from the Faroe Islands or Greenland provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 10 kg.[/quote] You will note that the only parts which might apply to meat are part a and part c, but if we look at Annex 1 parts 1 & 2 we find this. [quote] PART 1 List of goods referred to in Article 7(a)   1. Powdered infant milk, infant food and special foods required for medical reasons, under the conditions that these products: (i) do not require refrigeration before opening; (ii) are packaged proprietary brand products for direct sale to the final consumer; and (iii) that the packaging is unbroken unless in current use.   2. Petfood required for health-related reasons, under the conditions that these products: (i) are intended for the pet accompanying the passenger; (ii) are shelf-stable; (iii) are packaged proprietary brand products for direct sale to the final consumer; and (iv) that the packaging is unbroken unless in current use. PART 2 List of goods which are not exempted from official controls at border control posts provided for in Article 7(c) Combined Nomenclature code  (1) Description Qualification and explanation ex Chapter 2 (0201-0210) Meat and edible meat offal All, excluding frogs’ legs (CN code 0208 90 70 ) 0401-0406 Dairy produce All ex 0504 00 00 Guts, bladders and stomachs of animals (other than fish), whole and pieces thereof, fresh, chilled, frozen, salted, in brine, dried or smoked All, excluding casings ex 0511 Animal products not elsewhere specified or included; dead animals of Chapters 1 or 3 of Section 1 of Part 2 of Annex I to Regulation (EEC) No 2658/87, unfit for human consumption Only petfood 1501 00 Pig fat (including lard) and poultry fat, other than that of heading 0209 or 1503 All 1502 00 Fats of bovine animals, sheep or goats, other than those of heading 1503 All 1503 00 Lard stearin, lard oil, oleostearin, oleo-oil and tallow oil, not emulsified or mixed or otherwise prepared All 1506 00 00 Other animal fats and oils and their fractions, whether or not refined, but not chemically modified All 1601 00 Sausages and similar products, of meat, meat offal or blood; food preparations based on these products All 1602 Other prepared or preserved meat, meat offal or blood All 1702 11 00 1702 19 00 Lactose and lactose syrup All ex 1901 Malt extract; food preparations of flour, groats, meal, starch or malt extract, not containing cocoa or containing less than 40 % by weight of cocoa calculated on a totally defatted basis, not elsewhere specified or included; food preparations of goods of headings 0401 to 0404, not containing cocoa or containing less than 5 % by weight of cocoa calculated on a totally defatted basis, not elsewhere specified or included Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 1902 Pasta, whether or not cooked or stuffed (with meat or other substances) or otherwise prepared, such as spaghetti, macaroni, noodles, lasagne, gnocchi, ravioli, cannelloni; couscous, whether or not prepared Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 1905 Bread, pastry, cakes, biscuits and other bakers’ wares, whether or not containing cocoa; communion wafers, empty cachets of a kind suitable for pharmaceutical use, sealing wafers, rice paper and similar products Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 2004 Other vegetables prepared or preserved otherwise than by vinegar or acetic acid, frozen, other than products of heading 2006 (1) Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 2005 Other vegetables prepared or preserved otherwise than by vinegar or acetic acid, not frozen, other than products of heading 2006 Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 2103 Sauces and preparations thereof; mixed condiments and mixed seasonings; mustard flour and meal and prepared mustard Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 2104 Soups and broths and preparations therefore; homogenised composite food preparations Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 2105 00 Ice cream and other edible ice, whether or not containing cocoa Only those preparations containing milk ex 2106 Food preparations not elsewhere specified or included Only those preparations containing meat or milk, or both ex 2309 Preparations of a kind used in animal feeding Only petfood, dog chews and mixtures of meals containing meat or milk, or both

 

[/quote]

 

[colin]

I cannot at this time find the specific mention of UK which I read, but from memory it went along lines of "cannot bring meat into EU from UK except from NI.

[laimeduck]

We came across via Eurotunnel this morning ..should have been 07.20 but that was cancelled so 08.30 grrrrrrr! As a result we have not stopped at all and have just arrived at nice little site at Sully sur Loire near Orleans 300 miles and just a stop for diesel.

Just as well we brought a fridge full of stuff from UK! There were no checks at all at Folkestone... the young lady glanced at our passports and waved us through. There were no "heavies" in the French part and any search would have had to have been in the open air.

Certainly at Folkestone they don't seem to have any set up or people/dogs for searching.

Jeremy

[Cattwg]

Although outside of the OP's planned trip it's worth noting that after much delay it looks like ETIAS will be in force as from November 2023. ETIAS stands for the European Travel Information and Authorisation System. There is plenty of information available if you google it. Another hoop to jump through thanks to Bxxxit.

Cattwg🙂 

[hja]

Entry/Exit system still to come in to force in May I believe.

[laimeduck]

31 minutes ago, hja said:

Entry/Exit system still to come in to force in May I believe.

I have no idea where you have got that info from? 

The official site says mid to late 2023.

Jeremy

[Cattwg]

There's a lot of conflicting information on the web with dates varying from now to the end of the year. Even ETIAS.com (which I believe to be the official website) contradicts itself with "Starting January 01 2023" and "The ETIAS has a target launch date in mid-to-late 2023." on the same page.

Cattwg🙂

[Brian Kirby]

6 hours ago, colin said:

As you know the main document is here.

EUR-Lex - 32019R2122 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

LETS TAKE ARTICLE 7

[quote]

 

All agreed Colin, but what about Article 6, as below? 

"Article 6

Products of animal origin and composite products on board means of transport operating internationally which are not unloaded and are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers

1.Products of animal origin and composite products are exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

(a) they are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally; and

(b) they are not unloaded on Union territory.

2.Direct transfer of goods referred to in paragraph 1 unloaded at a port from one means of transport operating internationally to another means of transport operating internationally is exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

(a) it takes place in accordance with the agreement of the competent authority of the border control post; and

(b) it takes place under customs supervision.

3.The operator responsible for the goods referred to in paragraph 1 shall request the agreement referred to in paragraph 2(a) prior to the transfer of these goods from one means of transport operating internationally to another means of transport operating internationally."

Particularly para 1 (a).  It is clearly there for a purpose and, you will notice, has no reference to the Annexes.  So what is it's purpose? 

Having seen the number of accounts of people entering France with no checks, and having read the Regulation (including Article 7), what was reportedly happening at the French ports seemed a pretty flagrant breach of the Regulation.

So I cast around for a logical explanation of how the French were able to ignore what the Regulation, as I read it, requires them to do regarding border controls for "third country" visitors.  A "liberal" interpretation of Article 6 seemed to offer an answer.  After all, a motorhome is, undeniably, a "means of transport.  In leaving the UK to enter the EU it is undeniably "operating internationally".  Any "contraband" (under the regulation) foodstuffs on board are likely to be relatively small quantities (the 2kg limits is per person), and "intended for consumption for the passenger/s", and are unlikely to be "unloaded on Union territory".

The only potentially contentious issue seems to be whether the driver of the motorhome might qualify as "crew", or might simply be regarded as another "passenger" (After all, there is no requirement for the "means of transport to have "crew", and no indication that Article 6 refers specifically to public, or commercially operated, transport.) 

Article 6 has no further definitions, qualifications, or references to other legislation, other Articles, or the Annexes.  It appears to stand alone in granting exemption from border controls. 

Paragraphs 2 and 3 seem irrelevant to a motorhome being used for leisure purposes.  So, I concluded that the French authorities had decided that motorhomes could, as above, be exempted from customs control at French borders.  Then, I read on the forum that at least one UK reg. van had been stopped, searched, and the foodstuffs that contravened Article 7 had been seized and destroyed.  What then?  Do we in fact have a lottery, dependent on who (if anyone) is on duty at which port of entry?  So, I began seeking an explanation for the presence of Article 6, and how it is supposed (by, as it is their legislation, the EU Commission) to be applied.

As above, I was surprised to be referred to the French (in this case) douaniers for the explanation.  Hence my further reference to the French embassy in London for clarification.  If they (the office of the commercial attaché) reply I'll post further.

[colin]

I would say that once the vehicle is unloaded then that counts as the items within it being counted as unloaded. At least this will be the intent of the regs. Still if you are pulled up by customs you might try arguing that, I'd not give you much chance of winning.

[Robinhood]

EU customs territories include the territorial waters.

A passenger ship entering the territorial waters nominally requires customs clearance as it enters, though for practical reasons checks obviously largely take place landside.

Without derogation any vessel entering such limits would be breaking the law if it were carrying otherwise "prohibited" items, for purposes of feeding passengers or crew en voyage, when entering from a third country.

It is clear that the clauses documented provide such derogation (and would allow transhipment to a similar outward journey). P&O, etc. can this keep their onboard restaurants functioning.

A similar situation exists for air travel, and stretching slightly, possibly international coach travel (though patently it would be easier to avoid border issues for land transport 😉 )

Without such derogation international air and sea travel to EU countries would become rather impractical. (I suppose any surplus items could be jetissoned at the territorial limit). I have little doubt that this issue is the target of the regulations.

You might choose to argue that the bottle of milk you import will never darken the motorhome door, but it is questionable whether it would be found to be within the letter, let alone the spirit of the regulations.

 

[Robinhood]

https://www.douane.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2021-06/25/travellers-arriving-in-the-EU-what-kinds-of-food-and-plants-can-you-bring-with-you.pdf

[Brian Kirby]

Perfect logic above, as I would expect.  And yes, thanks Bob, I've read the linked pamphlet, which basically reiterates what the regulation says regarding the contraband items.

And yet, what continues to baffle me is that no-one asked.  We were not directed from passport control to a customs control point (as I recall being the case before we joined the EEC in 1972), we were just waved through passport control to the closed gas cock inspection, and away.  Just as when we were EU members.  So no-one can have had the remotest notion of whether or not we were carrying such contraband items, yet must surely have recognised the strong probability that, especially in a motorhome, we would be.  I don't even recall seeing any of the notices as Annex II of the regulation, which I was expecting, so if they were there they certainly weren't as prominently displayed as the Regulation requires.

The only explanations that seem (tenuously! 🙂) possible are 1), that the douaniers were all on strike (and in view of Jeremy's account of his experience on Monday 9, must still be 🙂), 2) that France has unilaterally decided to turn "Nelson's eye" to private vehicles, or 3), that the EU has let it be known that drivers of private vehicles need not be questioned, or their vehicles searched, regarding these items - none of which, for some reason, quite has that "Colgate ring of Confidence".  So, baffled it is that I (still) am!  🙃

[hja]

22 hours ago, laimeduck said:

I have no idea where you have got that info from? 

The official site says mid to late 2023.

Jeremy

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/smart-borders/entry-exit-system_en

This link says anticipated end of May

And this media link:

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/11/25/long-queues-and-scams-will-the-new-eu-entry-system-cause-border-chaos

[Brian Kirby]

22 hours ago, Cattwg said:

There's a lot of conflicting information on the web with dates varying from now to the end of the year. Even ETIAS.com (which I believe to be the official website) contradicts itself with "Starting January 01 2023" and "The ETIAS has a target launch date in mid-to-late 2023." on the same page.

Cattwg🙂

Possibly crossed wires?  EES and ETIAS are different systems: see here https://tinyurl.com/2e5fe7o7