colin Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said: And yet, what continues to baffle me is that no-one asked. We were not directed from passport control to a customs control point (as I recall being the case before we joined the EEC in 1972), we were just waved through passport control to the closed gas cock inspection, and away. Just as when we were EU members. I would note that when we where members of EEC there were restrictions on what could and couldn't be taken across the channel, either to or from mainland Europe, we've been through numerous times without being directed to customs. I remember once bringing back a large quantity of sausages, it was only later I found out it was illegal at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 We've made several crossings since we left the EU, been searched on numerous occasions, but have never been asked about food or had our fridge opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 43 minutes ago, colin said: I would note that when we where members of EEC there were restrictions on what could and couldn't be taken across the channel, either to or from mainland Europe, we've been through numerous times without being directed to customs. I remember once bringing back a large quantity of sausages, it was only later I found out it was illegal at that time. Agreed Colin. But now we're a third country I'd have expected things to have changed noticeably. If you haven't, have a look at Articles 8 and 9 of our favourite Regulation, and see what is supposed to be present, and to happen, at EU entry points to detect and seize all those items in Annex I to ensure compliance now we're a third country. Also, look at the posters, at least one of which is supposed to be "placed in locations which are easily visible to passengers arriving from third countries." Look also at Article 8.3. Requiring "International passenger transport operators, including airport, port and rail operators and travel agencies" to: (a) draw the attention of their customers to the rules laid down in Article 7 and in this Article, in particular by providing the information set out in Annexes II and III; (b) accept that the competent authority displays the information referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2 within their premises in locations which are easily visible to passengers arriving from third countries." Despite all that, I saw nothing. I know I'm getting long in the tooth, and have to wear glasses, but my eyesight isn't that bad! 🙂 I doubt I'd have been able to drive over 2,000 miles around France without incident if it was! Others may disagree, but I don't like the uncertainty of rules that are enforced erratically. It just means that a few get caught while a majority get away with it. So, personally, unless either the EU or the French embassy come up with a rational explanation, I think I'll adopt the precautionary principle and assume a supermarket visit for all the naughty stuff on arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Brian, my interpretation is that: - there is little doubt that the items under discussion are banned from import in a personal situation. - the "derogation(s)" documented apply to commercial inter-country travel, and allow for onboard catering, etc. - I think I have seen at least one of the prescribed notices on my travels last year, and the "douane" document is linked to by Eurotunnel. - The legislation dictates that any enforcement should be "risk based" - a bit of a get-out methinks. === The French have always had a typically Gallic view of legislation (their own, let alone that from the EU) where its practice is "inconvenient" to them, and rules similar in character to these are enforced worldwide quite erratically. (Don't try to get dirty walking boots into NZ, though 😉 ) As Colin says, prior to Brexit there were still a significant number of prohibited items, but searches were, in general, few and far between. Whilst immigration staff numbers might have been bolstered due to the inescapable new workload, I doubt very much that the same has happened with the "douane" at French ferry ports. Frankly, I think there has been a decision that "Bof; Nous avons de plus gros poissons à faire frire". I suspect there sill still be the odd random search, as previously, and I also suspect that not a lot of effort even then will be expended in looking for banned foodstuffs - but if some are found, expect them to be confiscated. As far as I am concerned, we've proved that, with minor change and little real inconvenience, we can arrange to shop immediately on the other side of the channel, so that's what we'll continue to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Robinhood said: Brian, my interpretation is that: 1- there is little doubt that the items under discussion are banned from import in a personal situation. 2- the "derogation(s)" documented apply to commercial inter-country travel, and allow for onboard catering, etc. 3- I think I have seen at least one of the prescribed notices on my travels last year, and the "douane" document is linked to by Eurotunnel. 4- The legislation dictates that any enforcement should be "risk based" - a bit of a get-out methinks. === The French have always had a typically Gallic view of legislation (their own, let alone that from the EU) where its practice is "inconvenient" to them, and rules similar in character to these are enforced worldwide quite erratically. (Don't try to get dirty walking boots into NZ, though 😉 ) As Colin says, prior to Brexit there were still a significant number of prohibited items, but searches were, in general, few and far between. Whilst immigration staff numbers might have been bolstered due to the inescapable new workload, I doubt very much that the same has happened with the "douane" at French ferry ports. Frankly, I think there has been a decision that "Bof; Nous avons de plus gros poissons à faire frire". I suspect there sill still be the odd random search, as previously, and I also suspect that not a lot of effort even then will be expended in looking for banned foodstuffs - but if some are found, expect them to be confiscated. 5- As far as I am concerned, we've proved that, with minor change and little real inconvenience, we can arrange to shop immediately on the other side of the channel, so that's what we'll continue to do. Hi Bob, and yes, I think you're right above. 1 Spelled out in great detail, in fact! 2 It seems so, although it could have been stated more clearly. 3 We only did the one crossing last year, and neither of us can remember seeing any of the notices at Cheriton. Doesn't mean they aren't there of course, but does suggest they aren't that prominent. The douane document? I eventually managed to excavate down to that, but it is hardly prominent and, from my reading of the Regulation, should really be at least linked, or incorporated into, the booking confirmation. How did you find it? It took me about 10 minutes to find it! 4 Strange, that, isn't it? 🙂 5 Yes, so will we. Nice big Auchan not far from tunnel arrivals, so straight from shuttle to Auchan, then the Calais campsite, and away next morning. The only problem is managing the fridge the day before we leave so that everything we transfer to the van fridge is "legal" (or to be eaten on board the shuttle). Might cause a hiccup if we are inspected by French customs at Cheriton before boarding, but I can't see it becoming a major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 We were very naughty ... we took a full fridge and freezer full of meats cheeses etc through in cold bags but only veg in the fridge freezer. Calculated risk, but I figured that IF they were going to check the fridge contents then they wouldn't look elsewhere. If I was asked if we had any meat etc I was going to say "we only have veg in the Fridge freezer" Of course if caught we would have to accept the consequences, but as Robin has suggested I can't see the French border lot at the tunnel bothering too much .. there are no facilities for them there. I never go in the Eurotunnel terminal so have no idea if there are notices in there and we saw none in the parking areas nor on the approach to or on the customs booths. Strikes me it's a paper exercise with no real teeth. PS Robin Agree about hiking boots into NZ ...I washed mine thoroughly. But they still took them away for a deep clean! Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 17 hours ago, laimeduck said: We were very naughty ... we took a full fridge and freezer full of meats cheeses etc through in cold bags but only veg in the fridge freezer.... Don't be offended but going to France or Spain bringing British meat, cheese and vegetables seems ridiculous to me. Especially the latter, one thing that we Mediterraneans find unbearable in your fruit and vegetables is the lack of quality and above all of flavour. France but also Spain are full of supermarkets of a higher quality than your Tesco and Morrisons. Almost absent those "express" so common in Great Britain and that we associate to "junk food". Then there are thousands of épiceries and tiendas where you can buy food of all kinds, tasty fruit and vegetables included. And don't tell me about the lack of time because, as Brian said, as soon as you land (ferry or tunnel) within a few kilometers you will find everything you need. Even cheap, by the kilo and not by the piece. When will you finally be able to remove your provincial manners and become less narrow-minded? Max p.s. Don't rely too much on the lack of controls. Twice at the French border I had the police come on board and check every piece of furniture (including the fridge), they even inspected the fresh water tank by removing its cap. Maybe they were looking for narcotics but I don't rule out that they were routine checkups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I always took milk, cheese etc over to the continent for the sake of convenience. It's nothing to do with not liking continental food. When I get off the ferry my aim is to TRAVEL - not go shopping ! 2 hours in a supermarket is a hundred less miles on the road. I appreciate that others may prefer shopping to touring - and good luck to 'em - we all have different priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hja Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 We would always take the content of the home fridge, which would have been run down. Wouldnt want to shop immediately on arriving so need enough food for first day. Milk important to us not only for drinks but also breakfast. After that, yes indeed shopping. I hate shopping but wandering round french supermarkets was part of the holiday. However, we did find UK shops catching up to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, hja said: We would always take the content of the home fridge, which would have been run down. Wouldnt want to shop immediately on arriving so need enough food for first day. Milk important to us not only for drinks but also breakfast. After that, yes indeed shopping. I hate shopping but wandering round french supermarkets was part of the holiday. However, we did find UK shops catching up to some extent. Exactly. You transfer the remains of the contents of your home fridge into your van fridge the morning of your departure, and off you go. You then shop at a location of your choosing a day or two later, depending on how much stuff you ended up taking with you. Why throw it all away on departure only to replace it a few hours later? It's nothing to do with prejudice against foreign food, just convenience and avoidance of waste. I think Massimo has lost the plot! 🙂 But then, if he stays within the EU, he won't have needed to negotiate border controls since 1957 - providing he was selective about whose borders he crossed and when! Going back up string a bit, I've now heard from the French Customs Attaché's office in London on the question of applicability of Article 6. They simply segued around it, emphasising that the banned products are as listed in the Regulation. So, in effect, they are conceding that in the case of French customs, the EU's "risk based" customs checks work along the lines of "you take the risk if you wish, we'll put you right if and when we choose". Tant pis!🤨 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, mtravel said: Don't be offended but going to France or Spain bringing British meat, cheese and vegetables seems ridiculous to me. Especially the latter, one thing that we Mediterraneans find unbearable in your fruit and vegetables is the lack of quality and above all of flavour. France but also Spain are full of supermarkets of a higher quality than your Tesco and Morrisons. Almost absent those "express" so common in Great Britain and that we associate to "junk food". Then there are thousands of épiceries and tiendas where you can buy food of all kinds, tasty fruit and vegetables included. And don't tell me about the lack of time because, as Brian said, as soon as you land (ferry or tunnel) within a few kilometers you will find everything you need. Even cheap, by the kilo and not by the piece. When will you finally be able to remove your provincial manners and become less narrow-minded? Max p.s. Don't rely too much on the lack of controls. Twice at the French border I had the police come on board and check every piece of furniture (including the fridge), they even inspected the fresh water tank by removing its cap. Maybe they were looking for narcotics but I don't rule out that they were routine checkups. Max ...but I am offended! How dare you suggest that I shop in Morrisons or Tesco! (If you want to feel thin, shop at ASDA!) As I have already said, ,this trip we wanted to get as close to the Med as quickly as possible. That did not involve getting an early Eurotunnel to spend time in a Supermarche. In the event we got to the Spanish border near Perpignan in a little over 2 days. I don't know if you have travelled through France from Calais down south during winter, but it is predominantly shut. Not somewhere to dawdle. If you don't like our supermarket vegetables and fruit which lack quality and flavour ( that are sold to us by you Mediterraneans?) then don't buy them! I don't! Don't be so hard on us Brits Max! Some of us are nice people! Jeremy (in Estartit drinking a beer in the sun at the Marina!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said: I think Massimo has lost the plot! 🙂 But then, if he stays within the EU, he won't have needed to negotiate border controls since 1957 - providing he was selective about whose borders he crossed and when! Brian, we don't tour just continental Europe. Last August we went to Ireland (both ROI and NI) and crossed Great Britain (forth and back) from Dover to Holyhead. And visited Great Britain, the whole, from Devon to Cornwall to John O'Groats at least three times. About shopping time. Geez, in half of an hour Anna is able to fill the kart with what we need. I don't think this time spent has any impact on 90/180. Or has it ? Max p.s. Jeremy, I have visited France by motorhome at least twenty times, if I lay out my itineraries on the map it would seem covered in a spider's web. I know it pretty well. I've never had the need to go from Calais to Perpignan also because it doesn't seem like the most logical way to go to southern Spain from Kent but in half an hour I could tell you which route I would choose. Probably via Bordeaux/San Sebastian/Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 38 minutes ago, mtravel said: spider's web Maldito corrector, of course I meant net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 41 minutes ago, mtravel said: Maldito corrector, of course I meant net. Max ... I too have travelled Europe most summers but for the last 71 years! I first went to Normandy camping in 1952 aged 2. I believe my spiders Web may even be more complex than yours?! We chose our route to Spain via the Med as we haven't done that way for a number of years. The last trip to Spain/Portugal was over the Portalet pass then down through Segovia etc. You do your thing and we'll do ours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 35 minutes ago, laimeduck said: Max ... I too have travelled Europe most summers but for the last 71 years! I first went to Normandy camping in 1952 aged 2. I believe my spiders Web may even be more complex than yours?! We chose our route to Spain via the Med as we haven't done that way for a number of years. The last trip to Spain/Portugal was over the Portalet pass then down through Segovia etc. You do your thing and we'll do ours! Jeremy, let's stop talking nonsense. Calais-Perpignan, two days, you said it. What changes if you add half an hour to stop at the first Carrefour/Leclerc/Auchan/Intermarché/etc/etc to buy some essential food ? What changes if one of you delays breakfast for half an hour because he can't do without milk? You would have saved more time shopping instead of wasting it by replying to this thread. Do not you think ? The truth is that you English do not want to accept the rules that you have signed up to but this is typical of your island mentality. Perhaps it is the case that someone checks you and applies fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, mtravel said: Jeremy, let's stop talking nonsense. Calais-Perpignan, two days, you said it. What changes if you add half an hour to stop at the first Carrefour/Leclerc/Auchan/Intermarché/etc/etc to buy some essential food ? What changes if one of you delays breakfast for half an hour because he can't do without milk? You would have saved more time shopping instead of wasting it by replying to this thread. Do not you think ? The truth is that you English do not want to accept the rules that you have signed up to but this is typical of your island mentality. Perhaps it is the case that someone checks you and applies fines. Max I'm sorry, I don't do rudeness. Goodbye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, laimeduck said: Max I'm sorry, I don't do rudeness. Goodbye! It's not rudeness, just the truth. Another five minutes lost while reading and replying. Dont' you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, laimeduck said: Max I'm sorry, I don't do rudeness. Goodbye! You won't be able to compete with Max for his " shopping speed ". When/if he lands at Dover/ Folkestone he immediately sets off to find a local supermarket, buys his needs, queues at checkout, and then makes his way back to original road he was on ---------- and, it seems, it only delays his journey by half an hour. 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, malc d said: You won't be able to compete with Max for his " shopping speed ". When/if he lands at Dover/ Folkestone he immediately sets off to find a local supermarket, buys his needs, queues at checkout, and then makes his way back to original road he was on ---------- and, it seems, it only delays his journey by half an hour. 😊 First time we were in England we didn't stop in Dover, just drove to a pub hosting motorhomes near Canterbury and had dinner there. Shopping moved to the day after. Second time we went straight to Exeter, I didn't remember where we stop for dinner. Shopping the day after in the town. Third time we drove to Rye where we had dinner at Riven Haven and slept there. Shopping somewhere on our route to Devon, I might recall Hastings. In our two trips to Ireland we just drove straight to Holyhead and didn't need shopping. Last August we have seen that the overall quality of ROI Lidl's is much better than the one in NI. Try to believe. Why stop in the UK ? Perhaps half an hour is enough for us because whatever we buy will always be worse than the Italian one. On the contrary, you obviously waste a lot of time looking for some delicacy. Smile please. As for the queues, never one longer than five minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 4 hours ago, mtravel said: Maldito corrector, of course I meant net. No, Max, you meant web. 🙂 Web is correct. I think this a bit unfair: "The truth is that you English do not want to accept the rules that you have signed up to but this is typical of your island mentality." We are not, and do not act as, single mass. Any more than do Italians (or any other nation). I'll happily acknowledge that living on an island has given us a different outlook to those who live in countries on the European continent, but given our relative isolation from our immediate neighbours (those 20 miles of sea!), plus our relatively early unification as a unified state, that is hardly surprising. Our problem is that for much of our history we have been sheltered from invasion by those 20 miles, so came to see those on the other side as a threat. But then, we are all the victims of our history, are we not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globebuster1 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 3 hours ago, mtravel said: Jeremy, let's stop talking nonsense. Calais-Perpignan, two days, you said it. What changes if you add half an hour to stop at the first Carrefour/Leclerc/Auchan/Intermarché/etc/etc to buy some essential food ? What changes if one of you delays breakfast for half an hour because he can't do without milk? You would have saved more time shopping instead of wasting it by replying to this thread. Do not you think ? The truth is that you English do not want to accept the rules that you have signed up to but this is typical of your island mentality. Perhaps it is the case that someone checks you and applies fines. Steady on! You're starting to sound like John 52 🙂 No need for that sort of response - as a Brit of Italian descent, I think you may lack a bit of insight into our 'Island Mentality' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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