Engine Chipping

[Tanskavan]

I read recently that having the Engine 'Chipped' may affect your Insurance Cover. I have not had it done yet to my Ducato JTD 2.8 and have not yet contacted the Insurance Company for advice. Has anyone come across this situation and does anyone have any advice for me?

Cheers

 

Tony

[davenewellhome]

Simplest advice is to check with your insurers BEFORE having the engine chipped, only then will you be able to decide if you want to go ahead depending on what your insurers say. As the chip replacement will increase the potential performance of your engine the insurers might well load your premium to reflect this, some insurers might not be too bothered but until you check with your own insurer you won't know.

 

D.

[Brisey]

Best to check with your insurers first. If your van is still under its manufacturers warranty the fitting of a chip may well invalidate it.

[Brian Kirby]

It's a bit more than advisable to notify your insurer.  You are contractually obliged to advise them of any/all modifications to the vehicle.  Even if they say there is no premium adjustment, make sure the modification is properly recorded in writing, and not just left as a telephone notification.

That would be especially true of anything that enhanced its performance.  Failure to notify risks the insurer refusing to pay out, should you subsequently be involved in an accident.

[Tanskavan]

Thanks Brian,

 

I had no intention to go ahead without notifying the Insurance Company as it would be irresponsible to other road users. Have you heard any adverse affects on the Engine or Transmission resulting rom 'Chipping', as if this increase in performance is available, why don't the manufacturers use it from new?

 

Puzzled!!

 

Tony

[Brian Kirby]

Tony

There was some mention that warranties might be invalidated by chipping an engine while still under warranty.  Might be worth checking that if relevant.  There was also a debate over whether the engine management computer would reveal the presence of a chip even after it had been removed.  Don't think this was conclusive.

I think the main reason the manufacturers don't chip these engines for maximum performance, is because they are workhorse engines and not racehorse engines.  They have to survive "foot down Willie" driving them day in and day out.  There is therefore quite a lot of "safety factor" built in to the operating specs.  I also suspect the dynamic balance of the twiddling bits may not be exemplary, so pushing them too hard for too long might be a bit destructive!

However, in a motorhome, most of the tweaks are aimed at releasing more torque with a bit more horsepower, to aid generally relaxed touring.  The only downside I can see is that in doing so the engine must develop more power, meaning more heat.  Generally this should be dissipated without trouble, but crossing the Alps on the hottest day of the summer might push the oil temperature higher than it likes, and you might see the water temperature gauge start creeping up.  The general reaction seems to be that the chips work well and the advantages are real, and generally beneficial to relaxed driving.

[tonyishuk]

I am interested in chipping my engine as well. My letter is in the post to the Insurance company (Insured via Caravan Club)

 

However I would welcome advice on companies that supply chips and cost of setting up the chip. Also any good or bad results.

 

I was rather put off by my local Fiat Garage, that said £420 and you can fit it yourself. (I think it was a Tune-it Chip)

 

If I paying that money, I expect someone with a bit of enthusiasm lifting the bonnet, plugging in a laptop and setting the chip / engine characteristics.

 

 

Rgds

 

 

[Tanskavan]

Thanks again Brian,

 

I have to agree with the points you raise. My Ducato is over 3 years old and therefore out of warranty. I take up your point about the Alpine driving. As we are new to this, it may be a while before we attempt the more 'demanding' type of driving.

 

Thanks again

 

Regards

 

Tony

[messerschmitt owner]

I haven't remapped my motorhome (156bhp is just fine!) but I have had experience of remapping (changing the software of a car) and, yes, you will have to tell the insurance company - without fail.

 

My remap is undetectable by the manufacturer's software and a good remapper will always return to standard at their cost if there is an issue. I have driven 15000 miles remapped with no issues beyond increased driver enjoyment. My vehicle has had warranty work undertaken on it even with a remap.

 

I'm sure the increased power (105bhp instead of 82bhp) will have an adverse effect on engine life but a recon engine for my car is £2k fitted and I made a cosncious decision that I would be prepared to pay £2k for a few years of a much improved car with better power and performance.

[davenewellhome]

I think the question of whether or not a remapped chip will adversely affect engine longevity is dependent on how much of the extra performance is used and how frequently. This has always been the case with tuned engines and it does sometimes work the other way, a tuned (or in this case chipped engine) might last longer as it can be less stressed overall. I have noted a sudden increase in businesses dealing in "chipping" and note that there are several now exhibiting at the Warners shows. Personally if I were to go for a remap I would prefer to use someone like TB Turbo who have a rolling road to set the vehicle up on rather than just use an out of the box plug in kit.

 

D.

[Mel E]

One or two points:

 

1. I had TB Turbo 'do' my last motorhome. It transformed performance and caused no problems in over 30K Kms of subsequent driving. I pre-advised my insurers (Comfort) and there was no problem.

 

2. Many vehicles - even vans - now have a range of engines giving different outputs (torque and power) that are actually the same engine with different engine management programs. For example, the Renault Master range has three engines varying from 115hp to over 150hp that are identical apart from the outputs.

 

Thus, provided you don't try and overdo it, there should be no reliability problems. You can probably add 20% to hp and torque without any ill effects - and the difference will be very noticeable. What I would not do, however, is to try and add anything to the manufacturer's top-of-the-range engine, because you are then into unexplored territory.

 

And I agree with Dave: there is no substitute for setting it up and measuring the result on a proper rolling road.

 

Mel E

====

[fred grant]

mel - my mate from up pensilva (garage man of many yers) says the 150 renault is different. muttered bout variable algebra turbothingy and esorst system and sum other andcillaries.

 

fred

[Mel E]

Fred,

 

Your friend is partly right. According to the technical specs, there are actually 4 versions of Renault's 2.5dci engine in the Master:

 

100bhp

120bhp with self-regulating fixed geometry turbo

120bhp with variable geometry turbo

150bhp with variable geometry turbo

 

The first 2 comply with Euro4 and the next 2 with Euro 4 FAP. The 2nd and 4th in the list come with two alternative 6 speed gearboxes. Otherwise, they appear to be the same.

 

But a key point is that many (but not all) engine modifiers give you the extra power and torque at the expense of emissions. Until recently this has not been a problem in MoT tests because the required standards were fairly loose. I'm not sure how much flexibility testers will have with the newer Euro3 and 4 compliant vehicles.

 

Mel E

====

 

[Brian Kirby]

I still do wonder about heat dissipation.  A motorhome spends most of its life much heavier than the average van so, all other things being equal, the engine will be working harder at all times.  That extra power has to create more heat, and unless the engine is just to run hotter, the heat has to go somewhere.  Are we quite sure the radiator is the same for both more powerful, and basic, variants, and/or the cooling fans and their controllers, the intercooler (where fitted), and/or sump capacity?  Anyone know?

[Mel E]

Brian,

 

I may be wrong on this (it happened once before, in 1964, I think it was . . .), but I believe all modern vans are built to take a full load over long distances at speed.

 

Sure most are used by white van man and few actually manage to achieve the weight capacity within the available load volume - and those that do then deliver, meaning they're only, on average, half loaded for the day. But if they overheated, broke down whatever, just doing a long, fully-loaded trip, we'd all know about it, and the particular van's popularity would surely plummet?

 

Of course, in full load - high speed use they'll manage a lower lifetime mileage before wearing out, and probably need more frequent maintenance. But for the comparatively very low mileage 99% of motorhomes do, this should not be an issue.

 

Mel E

====

[enodreven]

Hi,

 

Has anyone with one of these units approached Safeguard insurance if they have what was the outcome ?

 

Thanks

 

[Brian Kirby]

Agreed, Mel.  However, that would be the standard van in standard trim.  But, the (Fiat based) motorhome has already had its MAM enhanced by around 100Kg, has a larger frontal area, and is suplied with, say a nominal 100hp engine.  If we then chip it to say 120hp, we're no longer dealing with the van in standard trim.  I'm therefore a bit intrigued as to whether the nominal 100hp basic model has the same rad capacity as the standard 127hp model.  If not, it seems a little caution with the extra power may be needed at times.  

I'm certainly not trying to put anyone off; just stressing that the extra ooomph probably needs to be handled with a bit of mechanical sensitivity, or a least with one eye on the temperature gauge when the going gets tough!

[davenewellhome]

I understand where Brian's coming from here and in general agree with his theory, another reason I would prefer to have any chip tuning done by an outfit with a rolling road, but the majority of vehicles are actually over cooled in standard trim to cope with the occasional extreme conditions such as crossing the alps on a hot day so should be able to cope.

 

D.

[Don Madge]

We had the Van Aaken Smart box fitted for just over two years now and I posted the following in July 2005.

 

"After having the Van Aaken smart Box fitted to my Timberland in April 2005

for £423 I decided to do a fuel consumption check on our recent 4200 mile trip around the Iberian Peninsula.

 

We normally cruise at about 90/100 KPH (usually the van is fully loaded 3300kgs) and with the cruise control set we found that we did not have to change down for the hills which we would have expected to have change down on before the box was fitted.

 

I tried to keep an accurate check when refueling, It's difficult at times

when you are trying to fill the tank right to the brim. The 4200 miles on

the continent returned the following:-

 

Overall 33.08 MPG

 

Best 36.25 MPG

 

Worse 27.73 MPG

 

On a previous trip to France (1400 mile) before the Smart box was fitted our overall MPG was 30.34. I must point out the smart box was fitted for

convenience rather than fuel economy.

 

We have got to the stage in life now where we don't charge about anymore, well not often anyway, we also practice defensive driving. We have both found that our reactions are not what they used to be. I have been driving world wide since 1952 and Maureen since 1967.

 

We consider the smart box money well spent. We use the van a lot (30,000 miles in two years) mainly on the continent.

 

I spoke to my insurers before the work went ahead and they were quite happy."

 

Since i wrote the article in 2005 the MPG has improved again, on our trip to Spain/Portugal earlier this year the MPG was somewhere between 35 - 39 according to road and traffic conditions at a steady 90 kph. The recorded mileage is now 47,200.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Don

[tonyishuk]

Don,

 

Who were your insurers ?

 

I asked CC Insurance (acting a agents for NIG ?) if I could fit a chip, fit a cruise control and lower fifth gear.

 

No problem was the answer, providing I pay a 25% loading on the premium.

 

In my letter I asked for advice on each item and what the premium would be. They did not seem to have taken on board that I might want to mix & match.

 

I will be asking again, if its 25% each mod, the whole lot or if bits are selective.

 

I don't mind paying an admin charge but to charge 25% for fitting a cruise control and lowering fifth gear is a bit over the top I feel.

 

Will update, when I get a sensible answer.

 

Rgds

 

[Don Madge]

Tony,

 

My insurers are Comfort and no extra premiums were mentioned.

 

Don

[enodreven]

Hi,

 

I rang Safeguard earlier and asked them about fitting a chip and what affect it would have on my insurance and was told as long as i supply them with a certificate showing it had been fitted by a professional company there would be no loading on the premium, now or at renewal

 

another reason to chose Safeguard

[panagah]

:-D Hi guys thought as I'm a subscriber to MMM I ought to register as this thread interests me.

 

I have had my van remapped.

It is an 03 2-0 DUcatto coach built 6 birth. We have owned the van for about two years. Prior to chipping, the van was a nightmare. The van would struggle to pull more than 60-65mph and getting up hills was a joke. indeed on a trip to Escosse with a strong head wind we were down to about 40-45 uphill on the M6. It made the experience of motorhoming quite an unpleasant one. I then tried doing all the usual ie lightning the load etc. with slightly more improved results but still not great.

 

Being quite mechanicaly minded I decided to look in to remapping and would like to share the benefits/issues with it.

 

My remapp was carried out for £295 by a computer chap close to where I live. The remapp was from a German company and was designed for my Motorhome by them. The process is quite simple on a Ducatto of my type. Firstly the standard map is uploaded to the computer, then emailed to the company in Germany, they then mail back the programme to the laptop ensuring EU legislation on emmisions is met.(usually off the shelf for a ducatto but sometimes mapps need writing for more obscure vechiles) . This is then installed on to your chip in your ECU via of coure the laptop.

 

Now immediately I drove the van after the remap the difference was quite incredible. It was far smoother, far more responsive and extremely more powerful.

To give some idea on a speed test (you have to try it don't ya just once) the van pulled to 90mph before I shut it down it possibly would of gone even faster add that with the van being loaded as well teh top speed difference is enormous. Power for pulling up hills is now amazing. she pulls up hills with no effort. The whole driving experience is completely changed and far more enjoyable.

Economy- there has been no real improvement in fuel economy. In some cases there has been a defecit. But an example of this would be my recent trip to France. On the way there I got my usual 25mpg. On the way back a couple of factors conspired, I used dead cheap fuel, and I arrived back in the UK for a long drive back to Cheshire at 10pm, I just wanted to get home, therefore my right foot became heavy and my MPG dropped to it's worst ever 21mpg

I have also noticed there was more black smoke after this fuel stop in France but only after loading the engine (ie getting away quick from trafic lights when changing gear).

 

There are other things you should take in to consideration, I always change my Oil and service my van myself. My oil+filter gets changed every 3k, I have a K and N filter which is cleaned at the same time, and my fuel filter is changed every 1 year. This therefore reduces the risk of Brians concern regarding overheating oil. The most important factor and I always try and remember to do this regardless of remapped or not is to not switch off immediately on stopping, allow the engine to run at least a minute so the turbo bearings are well oiled.

 

All in all though a very positive experience. As for insurance? they were not interested, but said they would be if i put a plug in box on?

 

Hope this helps if your still thinking of going ahead and email me if you want the website of the chap that done mine.

 

Paul

[bob b]

I fitted the Van Aaken smart box to my 2.3 Fiat Rapido last year. As I tow a motorcycle, I wanted to cruise comfortably without continually swapping gears. I fitted the kit myself in the advertised 15 minutes and am very happy with it. I can certainly feel that the engine has more "pep".

 

My insurance premium stayed the same as before the kit was fitted.

[patr]

Another very satisfied Van Aaken owner. Fitting the Smart Box has made an enormous difference to the flexibility of my 2.8JTD. The box has been installed for a year now and whilst it was not bought for fuel economy, it has improved by about 3%. Low gear acceleration is much better but it is the performance on hills that has impressed me most with fewer downshifts especially with cruise control on. Worth every penny.

 

Caravan Guard happy with the box at no extra premium and DIY fitting was a doddle.