Ulez and Euro 5

[Philip M]

My apologies if this topic has already been covered, but my motorhome which is Euro 5 and was registered in Feb 2016 is shown as compliant with Ulez. This leads my to think that the system which monitors traffic for ulez compliance can only deal with registration numbers and therefore any diesel vehicle with a 65 plate or later qualifies regardless of whether it's Euro 5 or Euro 6.

Although the government website site says my van is compliant, is it more subtle than that. Leaving aside any moral ideas, is it actually legal for me to use the van in London free of Ulez charges. It seems their cameras are unlikely to clock me.

[Brian Kirby]

Vehicles are detected on CCTV cameras with ANPR capability.  If the TfL checker shows your vehicle compliant for the ulez, then the ANPR cameras should recognise your vehicle as compliant, and it can be driven within the ulez area without triggering a penalty.  The check is vehicle specific, and not all 2016 registered vehicles will be compliant, just as some later vehicles may be non compliant.  

I'm not clear how you've checked your vehicle's compliance as you refer above to "the government website" but the London ulez is a Greater London Authority (under the Mayor of London) initiative and is administered by Transport for London.  The correct website for checking compliance with the London ulez is here: https://tinyurl.com/y4ts2yaz

[derek500]

https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones is the Government site.   You can check your vehicle's status for all the UK zones in one place, but as Derek says it doesn't include London.

Edited March 9 by derek500

[Philip M]

Thanks for the replies. Iv'e just checked on https://tfl.gov.uk as you recommended, and it shows that my motorhome is compliant in London. Just to muddy the waters I also checked cwww.gov.uk/clean-air-zones as mentioned by derek500. This site shows I am compliant in Bath, Bradford and Portsmouth, but not in Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield or Tyneside. Since my van is Euro 5, I wondered what TFL and other cities actual criterion are for deciding what is and what isn't compliant. This was brought to mind recently in an article I read on line by someone with exactly the same situation and I am curious to know why.

[colin]

I don't know about UK, but for the French Crit-Air they use the date on V5c, this meant our Euro4 van got a sticker for Euro5 van.

[Deneb]

My motorhome, registered in August 2016 and on a "16" plate, is shown as not compliant for both the congestion charge and ULEZ. 

It is a Euro 5+ vehicle, so that is as expected. My 2017 petrol car is compliant, and so is my wife's 2009 petrol car.

I have just registered an agreement for a Norway toll tag, and was presented with two Euro 5 emissions categories to choose from during the application. I had to seek advice from the tag issuer as to which was the correct category for my van, as the terms used did not match the criteria according to EEC regulations. Having given the tag issuer my vehicle details however, they were adamant that as the vehicle was first registered in 2016, it should be registered for the Autopass scheme as Euro 6, which they have now done!

Edited March 11 by Deneb

[colin]

11 minutes ago, Deneb said:

I have just registered an agreement for a Norway toll tag, 

What toll tag have you got? we are planning Scandinavian trip of 2 to 3 months and are looking at options.

[Deneb]

25 minutes ago, colin said:

What toll tag have you got? we are planning Scandinavian trip of 2 to 3 months and are looking at options.

I had intended to apply for the Skyttelpass, as there 

[Deneb]

1 hour ago, colin said:

What toll tag have you got? we are planning Scandinavian trip of 2 to 3 months and are looking at options.

Sorry, I'll try again. I inadvertently managed to post before I had finished typing and the forum won't let me submit my full reply after editing that post:

I had intended to apply for the Skyttelpass, which costs 200 NOK for the tag, but with no ongoing charges other than toll fees. Howevere, when I tried to apply for it, their website uses a verification system involving a text code sent to the user's mobile phone, but on entering a UK number the system responds that they are unable to send texts to the UK at present.

On contacting customer services, they told me that I could set up an account by submitting the necessary details by email, but I would not be able to login or view my account and charges.

I had a rethink and have registered with Fremtind Service. Registration and application was straightforward, apart from the issue over selecting the correct emissions classification for the van as mentioned above. For foreign vehicles they also require a copy of the V5C registration document to be uploaded during the application, similar to the Crit' Air application process.

There is no upfront cost for the tag, but they charge 5 NOK per month for holding it (about 8 GB pence). The account and agreement were set up quickly and I can see the details including my tag number on the account. Their customer services was very quick in responding to my emails too- almost in real time - whereas Skyttelpass took a day to reply.

I haven't yet received the tag, although it has only been just over a week since my agreement was confirmed, and the suggested postal time from Norway is up to 14 days, which probably doesn't include the appalling Royal Mail delivery times that we now suffer from!

I am also intending to link the tag to an Autopass Ferry agreement, but I am waiting until I have the tag in my hand before applying, as I have read elsewhere that someone with a Skyttelpass tag found the number on the tag differed from the one shown in their account, and they had to contact Skyttelpass to confirm which one they should use when linking the ferry agreement.

I have also found that I am not going to be able to avoid the Skyttelpass login, because it is Skyttelpass who administer the Autopass Ferry agreement, and the login for that account uses the same text to mobile front end as the main Skyttelpass website, with the same issue that they cannot currently send texts to the UK. The ability to be able to login and view the account will not be as critical though, as the ferry system involves depositing 2000 NOK with AutopassFerje in advance. Ferry charges are then deducted from the account balance, and any funds remaining returned to the account holder if and when the account is closed.

It is worth obtaining an Autopass ferry agreement and linking the tag, as it gives a 50% discount on ferry charges throughout Norway to private customers, which includes all motorhomes registered as vehicle category M1.

For billing, Fremtind have arranged to invoice me by email, and I have set up an account with Wise which provides a relatively cheap method of converting sterling account balances to NOK and making IBAN payments to the bank associated with the Fremtind agreement.

[colin]

Thanks, I'll have a look at it later. We've had a couple of aborted trips to Scandinavia in previous years and it seems each time different schemes for tolls and ferries come up.

[Philip M]

It's interesting to note that deneb's Euro 5 van on a 16 plate is six months newer than mine but isn't compliant with Ulez whereas my 65 plated van is. I am also intrigued that there are two emissions standards for Euro 5 in Norway. Do you know what the difference is between these, and is this peculiar to Norway or do these different levels apply in the UK?

Surely all the authorities must get their information from the DVLA, but it would seem there is no standard applied to the way they use them. As far as I can see there is no Engine Euro number specified on the V5C document, unless it's in code somewhere, but the exhaust emissions are given which in the case of my Peugeot van are: CO 0.399, NOx. 0.217 and HC+NOx. 0.266. I wonder if deneb's are different.

I'm also glad of derek500's input as I had thought the whole of England would work to the same emissions standard. You have possibly prevented me from naively prevented me from blundering into a city centre where I am not compliant. It is basically a mess.

[colin]

The rules and practices around registering motorhomes have varied over the last few years, in the main it seems to ensure the lowest tax is paid. 

[Steve928]

2 hours ago, Philip M said:

Surely all the authorities must get their information from the DVLA, but it would seem there is no standard applied to the way they use them.

What information appears on a V5C seems to be completely dependant upon what fields of the V55/4 (from memory, may be incorrect designation) registration form are filled in by the person registering the vehicle; it seems to me that there are very few fields that DVLA consider compulsory.

For example, my previous van's V5C didn't state the Euro emissions class but did state vehicle category as M1.The current van's V5C is the other way around: emissions class Euro6B but vehicle category is blank (and DVLA would not change it as part of the MAM uprate process..).

As you say, it is basically a mess.

Edited March 11 by Steve928
numpty

[Deneb]

3 hours ago, Philip M said:

Do you know what the difference is between these, and is this peculiar to Norway or do these different levels apply in the UK?

Surely all the authorities must get their information from the DVLA, but it would seem there is no standard applied to the way they use them. As far as I can see there is no Engine Euro number specified on the V5C document, unless it's in code somewhere, but the exhaust emissions are given which in the case of my Peugeot van are: CO 0.399, NOx. 0.217 and HC+NOx. 0.266. I wonder if deneb's are different.

Mine are CO 0.548, NOx 0.234 and 0.273 combined - Fiat/Iveco 2.3 multijet 150HP.

The two emissions categories at each level were explained to me by Fremtind customer services as dependent on whether the vehicle is a passenger car / light goods vehicle, or a heavy vehicle. It may well be self explanatory in Norwegian, but viewing the page via Google Translate in Chrome it wasn't as simple, because the codes displayed bore no relation to the emissions classes set out in EU regs, nor did they come up anywhere else via a web search. It appears that the heavy vehicle codes all have a "T" on the end.

The application also required a CO2 figure, which is presumably on Norwegian registration documents, but not on our V5C which only gives a carbon monoxide figure. The system required at least one digit to be entered in the CO2 field, so I entered "0" and it has gone though without issue.

My van is just over 4 tonnes MGW, but because it is a category M1 motorhome it is treated as a light vehicle for Norwegian toll charges and ferry fares, although I believe the latter are also dependent on overall length.

[Deneb]

1 hour ago, Steve928 said:

What information appears on a V5C seems to be completely dependant upon what fields of the V55/4 (from memory, may be incorrect designation) registration form are filled in by the person registering the vehicle; it seems to me that there are very few fields that DVLA consider compulsory.

That's correct, but it also relies on the input clerk transferring the information correctly. My van's Maximum Permissible Mass was shown on the original V5C as 3020kg, a figure apparently transferred from the MIRO entered on the converter's CoC submitted with the application.

[polo]

My March 2016 does not show as compliant .So minimum of £12.50 to drive in London