40 mph changed to 30mph. No warning !

[Charlieme]

On TV tonight ref a North Wales problem.

 

Seems like some 40mph signs are being changed to 30mph and catching out the regular users.

 

Plus the mobile cameras that are used (anywhere) carry no road markings for evidence where you can dispute the speed that is recorded.

[Mike Parke]

The Chief Constable of the North Wales Constabulary is not known as 'The Traffic Taliban' for nothing!! He seems to prefer his officer to catch motorists rather than 'real criminals'

 

Regards, Mike.

[michele]

Does North wales have any crime? compared to London I thought it would be a walk in the park...

 

Something tells me he can afford to use resorces on traffic matters he must have good detection rates with low crime if he has the luxury of manning up traffic officers

 

(^) just a thought

[BGD]

Michelle - there used to be (reputedly) a significant number of sheep assaults in North Wales.........that's assaults on sheep, not gangs of sheep going round beating up the locals.

 

Then there's the burning of holiday homes.

 

All in all, a busy schedule for the Powys bobbys.

 

 

[davenewellhome]

Surely if its the signs that are being changed they are the warnings themselves? Our local dual carriageway was reduced from a 70MPH limit to 60MPH about six months or so back and 60MPH repeater signs are now posted on the central lamp standards about every mile, hardly anybody takes any notice though and they all still bomb along at 70MPH plus. I can't wait till they start enforcing this limit with mobile cameras >:-)

 

D.

[GJH]

Charlie&me - 2007-08-21 11:54 PM

 

On TV tonight ref a North Wales problem.

 

Seems like some 40mph signs are being changed to 30mph and catching out the regular users.

I find it hard to believe that there has been no warning. Proposed Traffic Regulation Orders have to be advertised in certain newspapers so that any objections can be submitted for consideration. The likely explanation is that people (myself included) do not bother to monitor proposed changes.

 

Graham

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

A lot of legislation in this country seems to be based on the assumption that you never leave home, or have a general factotum to deal with your affairs, and you study the newspapers.

 

For instance, they have to send a NIP to your registered address within 14 days if you get zapped by a speed camera. No consideration is given to the possibility that you are off to the South of France for the school holidays. The 14 day limit is so that you have the chance to remember the incident, and maybe come up with a defence.

 

I once asked my local council in which newspaper they had advertised a Planning Application on plot of land that they (we?) owned. And where they had advertised that it was for sale. Their reply? "Due to Local Government re-organisation......" They couldn't tell me. Nobody in the neighbourhood were aware of the planning applications (3 over 10 years) nor that the land was for sale, nor that it had been bought.

 

But yes, it was an interesting program. Did you see that program about parking tickets, a few weeks ago.. You park your car in London, buy a ticket from a machine, stick it in you window. Wrong! The nearest obvious machine, on the other side of the road is in a different Borough, so doesn't count on the spot where you have parked your car.

 

602

[Usinmyknaus]

For the last couple of years or so "Honest John" in the "Telegraph" has frequently exposed the anti-car tactics of the Chief Constable of North Wales. Although I try always to comply with speed limits I have, on principle, stopped visiting his area and North Yorks/Lancs, South Wales and Cornwall have had my tourist pounds instead. With our average hotel bill over £200 a night before we bought the M/H, plus local spending, that's a good illustration of why local businesses and councils should keep an eye on their local un-elected "little Hitlers" and make them act responsibly and proportionately.

 

There is plenty of competition for tourists and such negative publicity, whether deserved or not has to be damaging for the local economy.

 

Bob

 

[robin]

I am probably out on a limb here, but I would not think of not visiting an area simply because it has large numbers of speed cameras. Speed limits are generally in place for good reasons, especially in country areas - so why not simply stick to the speed limits? Save fuel as well.

 

[spartan3956]

I do not agree a lot of de resticted roads are made 30mph because they, that is the local council get more money to repair them and only have to examine them every 12 months, so if you see pot holes they are obliged by law to repair them if they dont and you damage your vehicle or suffer injury you can claim off them.

 

Its all to do with money

 

 

[Charlieme]

The TV was in a way highlighting the number of drivers who assume certain aspects of life without actually reading for themselves.

 

They also pointed out that many 'painted on the road markings' are illegal according to the law and were up for being challenged if you were nicked.

 

 

[davenewellhome]

I'm intrigued now, in what way are painted on the road speed limit markings illegal?

 

D.

[tonyishuk]

Dave,

 

Basically if the road marking is not as described in the Road Bible of road markings, the marking has no legal status, Then by definition, no enforcable action can be taken against a driver who has "contravened" the marking.

 

IE. link shows a parking bay that has to begin with a double line and end with a double line. If the bay starts with a single line incorrect width and /or dashed lines are not as described by the Bible ,then the bay has no legal status, there fore a driver can / should not be prosecuted for parking violation

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bm.gif

 

probably 80% of the parking bays in the UK are actually illegally marked

 

Whole loda stuff on the site regarding signing, which MUST be used for certain functions, and MUST conform to the diagrams, ( and NOT IN THE SPIRIT of)

 

Rgds

[davenewellhome]

Thanks for that Tony but surely where speed limits are concerned its a different story. If there are street lamps along a road and no speed limit signs then it is to be assumed that the limit is 30MPH, at least that's as I recall it from the highway code but I confess I haven't looked at it for about 12 months. Surely if there is a 30 MPH sign, whether or not it conforms to the "bible" description, painted in the road only a fool would exceed this limit and risk a speeding fine? My driving instructor, nearly 30 years ago, told me "if in doubt about a speed limit assume the lowest i.e. 30 MPH.

 

I accept that there are places where ridiculous speed limits have been set but the majority of 30MPH limits are certainly there for a reason, usually because it is a built up area and there is a high likelihood of pedestrians.

 

Today while traveling along the dual carriageway I mentioned earlier I was followed at 59 MPH (true speed as indicated by GPS) for seven and a half miles by a young lady in a Peugeot 307, then she decides to overtake me and has to exceed the limit to do so. Immediately after pulling back in she braked hard and exited at the slip road we were nearly passed! Driving licences must be available in lucky bags now!>:-(

D.

[GJH]

davenewell@home - 2007-08-22 6:48 PM

 

Thanks for that Tony but surely where speed limits are concerned its a different story. If there are street lamps along a road and no speed limit signs then it is to be assumed that the limit is 30MPH, at least that's as I recall it from the highway code but I confess I haven't looked at it for about 12 months. Surely if there is a 30 MPH sign, whether or not it conforms to the "bible" description, painted in the road only a fool would exceed this limit and risk a speeding fine? My driving instructor, nearly 30 years ago, told me "if in doubt about a speed limit assume the lowest i.e. 30 MPH.

Absolutely right Dave. The road markings are simply there as extra advisory signs to reinforce the signs (or indicators such as street lamps) which meet the legal requirements.

 

Graham

[colin]

At Shefford the limit was dropped to 20mph, most people didn't know till speed trap was made, then local police/council expressed concern at lack of observance of limit, what they failed to realise was the limit signs where at roundabouts and junctions, so people like me how entered the limit at a roundabout and where having to look at traffic never saw signs, as luck would have it I didn't drive throu town that day, but if I had I would have callenged ticket.

[Charlieme]

My last was in two sections

 

1st paragraph related to speed limit changes

 

2nd was in connection with 'Painted on the road markings'

 

They were not legaly connected but could have been on the same stretch of road.

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

Presumably a 40 limit dropped to 30 is because somebody thinks the 40 limit is dangerous? Sensible thing would be to put up a big sign saying the limit has changed, same as they do for new road layouts. But no, they change the limit, and hit those who don't notice with a zap camera. What does that do to a) improve road safety quickly?, and b) raise some revenue?

 

Is there a technical term for somebody who makes a rule so that he can catch somebody breaking it?

 

The Highway Code says that any road with street lamps is 30mph, unless there are repeater signs showing a higher limit.

 

But take the road (A40?) from Oxford to Cheltenham. See a camera sign. Hmm....no street lamps , so its 60 for single carriageway, 70 for dual carriageway. Yes? But several miles down the road you pass a solitary street lamp.......?????

 

Two roundabouts near Hiwaun on the A465, about a mile apart. Single carriage way apart from a short stretch of dual carriage leading into one roundabout. Deristiction signs (you know what I mean) at each roundabout....but street lamps every 50 yards. Whats the speed limit?

 

 

 

Local traffic from Abredare to Hirwaun approaches the roundabout at 30mph, sees a derestriction sign as they enter the roundabout, seo they can speed up, but then slow down again to comply with the 30mph sign as they exit. I suugest that ALL roundabouts should have a 20mph limit.

 

Again in Hirwaun, 40 limit thru most of the village. Side road on left, with no 30 sign, so presumably that is 40mph as well? Pity its a cul-de-sac only 50 yards long. 8-) OK, it won't happen.

 

Inter Valley Link between Glynneath and Abercrave, wide open road. About three cottages at side of road, about half way along. They have recently erected about a dozen TALL street lamps at pretty tight spacing (how much did that cost?) and made it a 40 limit over about half a mile. In the same boro, they have increased the speed limit from 30 to 40 where the road thru the village passes the end of my road. Residential area. Maybe they were not getting enough hits on the zap camera about 100 yards further on, where it changes to 30mph?.

 

Then there is the story about the council official who was given the job of deciding what speed limits should be where. He needed a colleague to drive him around, cos he didn't have a driving licence.

 

I agree there should be speed limits, but there should be rules controlling where they are, or preferably, one body responsible for them all.

 

Some motorways have street lamps, but I've never noticed any repeater signs.

 

602

[BrianR]

There are, of course, rules controlling where Councils can aply speed limits. This is one of the reasons why you get some of the situations described by the previous post - Councils decide that a 30 limit is necessary along a particular stretch of road, and again along the same road a bit further on, but the rules prevent them from making it one continous 30 limit. The examples given in the previous post just reinforce the advise - if you are not sure of the limit, assume it is 30, then you won't get caught speeding. Of course, you might arrive at your destinaton 5 minutes later. If you don't want to do this, don't complain if you get punished for breaking the law. After all, it would benefit none of us if other people were allowed to pick and choose what laws they kept.

 

Brian

[tonyishuk]

It is easier to fine drivers for minor infringments than apply common sense, Hence drivers fight back by any means they can to prove the inadequacy of a system that is percived to be unfair in a number of cases.

 

The problem with speed limits is that there are just too many of them and they vary too much. If in doubt driving at the lowest speed limit is not really a good answer.

 

In Croydon, there is a main A road (not through a shopping centre) which has 20 MPH sections on it. (Locals on this thread could probably advise where and if it is still applicable). Should the rest of the country travel at 20 MPH; just in case ?. (Upon reflection, probably not a bad idea !)

 

Either ROSPA or the RAC have expressed a view that there is a serious concern that drivers are spending to much time looking at the speedometer, checking speeds and limits, rather than the road in urban areas.

 

It will not belong before there are chips in the road, picked up by a sensor in the car, which audiably alerts the driver to the speed limit and if the speed is over the limit.

 

We have the technology, but not the will ! Could be a wise way to spend the revenue from speed cameras though !

 

Rgds

 

 

 

 

[tonyishuk]

Dave,

 

I take the point about speed limits, the program also touched upon othe forms of "income" from the motorist, such as parking.

 

I should have added this to my previous reply.

 

Rgds

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

Some years ago, my wife told me that Leeds University were developing a system of speed control. A satelite knows where the speed limits are, tells your GPS system, which closes your engine down to that limit. Nothing can go wrong..go wrong...go wrong...I understand that the technology is already incorporated in some "up market" cars, which are reputed to have speedos that read 10% fast, with odometer to match so you get it serviced more often. ££££

 

I would prefer it to simply make your accelerator pedal uncomfortably heavy, so you can boot it if adrenaline demands. For us with older vehicles, the control could be by the driver selecting a manual override switch as he passes a limit sign, similarly voice control, or by reading bar codes on or over the road.

 

Yep, I try to stay within speed limits, but that isn't always easy. In 1964 I was clocked at 80mph in an 850cc Minivan.8-) This was on the A1 so no speed limit at all. But all commercials were limited to 40mph. I pleaded not guilty, to no avail, fined £2 and endorsed. That particular offence no longer exists. Clean licence ever since, not even a parking ticket. Probably more luck than judgement.

 

We are required to drive within the law, with appropriate penalties specified. The local council are also required to obey the law...but frequently they don't. What happens? Zilch!

 

A road through a Swansea Valley town was turned into a one-way street, causing chaos in the rest of the town. Nobody benefited. Legend had it that a JP and a Police Inspector lived in that street. Years later it was quietly returned to two-way. The end of my present street has been turned into a death trap (in my and others opinion). They have erected railings which you prevent you seeing oncoming traffic unless the front of your car is way into the main road. They have painted lines to show how far you can project. Just imagine a stranger approaching that junction when a car shoots out from the side street.

 

Its not THEIR law...its OUR law.

 

602

[Rayjsj]

tonyishuk - 2007-08-23 4:12 PM

 

 

 

It will not belong before there are chips in the road, picked up by a sensor in the car, which audiably alerts the driver to the speed limit and if the speed is over the limit.

 

We have the technology, but not the will ! Could be a wise way to spend the revenue from speed cameras though !

 

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

 

My SatNav (tomtom 1) Tells me the speed limit as i drive along,if i go over the limit it starts to flash red, then returns to normal as i drop back to the limit + or - 5 mph.

You are right, how would they catch the accidental speeders (most of us !) which make up the most of their Revenue ? They wouldn't want that would they ?

 

 

 

 

;-) ;-)

[Mike Parke]

I do not neccessarily agree with the quote of Jeremy Clarkson some years back but there is some truth in its wider meaning, 'People kill people speed does'nt' Speeding can assist in the killing of others but if people were 'trained' to drive at speed then the chances of high speed T.A's would, surely, be reduced. Speed on the M1 or similar is a different matter, or should be, to speed on a minor country road (or Norfolks infamous A47 'Acle Straight).

 

Regards, Mike

[Homenaway]

I sometimes find myself driving along all types of road in parts of the country where I've never been before and it is often difficult to determine what the speed limit is as repeater signs aren't always present (therefore assume it is 30!) but often there are speed camera warning signs. Why can't they add the speed limit to these signs which they do in some places now even if it is national limit. I've seen any number of drivers hit their brakes on the A1 southbound at Colsterworth(?) where there are fixed cameras.

 

On a B road near us there are yellow signs saying "New 40mph limit in place" as well as the legal signs. They have been there for the 4 years we have lived there, probably not legal but useful as a reminder!

 

Perhaps we should change to the system in France and Spain where the speed limit changes very frequently eg where a side road crosses a main road or at a bend, just for a few hundred metres. I found I was usually more aware of the limit. Also isn't it always 50kph within the town name signs unless signed otherwise and usually with reducing limit as you approach?

 

Also in Spain we came across traffic lights at the entrance to villages that were set to red until you reached them forcing you to slow down - ok if the road isn't too busy.

 

Steve