GPS and narrow lanes (again)

[Old Git]

(I've started a new thread here because I believe there are new models about to be released, so this may be a good time to ask the question again.)

 

Does anyone (Sunbeam perhaps?) know if Garmin or any of the others have fixed the problem of their gadgets sending poor unsuspecting drivers down narrow lanes that are just about wide enough for a small motorbike?

 

That's my only gripe with them - and the worst of it is that the lanes are sometimes quite wide at the entry point, but then get narrower and narrower. It makes no difference whether I pretend to be a bus, lorry, truck or whatever - I believe the only effect this has on the confounded gadget is to change its estimated time of arrival etc.

 

I and many others I expect, would be interested in your reply as my SatNav has very nearly gone out of the window on more than one occasion. My wife always has the map on her knee to check the SatNav route as we go - which rather defeats the object of having the damn thing.

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

 

[Dave Newell]

Hi Dave, the problem is not with the equipment but rather with the mapping data being used. There are only two companies who provide the mapping data to all of the nav manufacturers, they are TeleAtlas and Navtech. If they don't gather the data on road widths then the GPS units can't take it into account.

 

D.

[Old Git]

Dave Newell - 2007-08-29 8:38 AM

 

Hi Dave, the problem is not with the equipment but rather with the mapping data being used. There are only two companies who provide the mapping data to all of the nav manufacturers, they are TeleAtlas and Navtech. If they don't gather the data on road widths then the GPS units can't take it into account.

 

D.

 

Thanks Dave. I was aware of this and should have phrased the question a bit better. Senility again - and trying to keep it simple!!

 

I recently read somewhere (?) that something was being done to improve the mapping data. I've read so much that it gets a bit confusing, but apparently some of the earlier map releases were less prone to the problem. Might this be true, and if so why take a backward step? Seems unlikely.

 

It would also appear that some of the more expensive SatNavs don't suffer from the problem - though I have no first hand experience. It has been suggested that Messrs Garmin et al have deliberately cut down the facilities in the firmware of cheaper models in the hope that users will get hooked and want to upgrade to a more expensive one. This also sounds a bit unlikely to me, but marketing strategies are complex and always very cunning, so who knows?

 

 

[Dave Newell]

My elderly VDO Dayton MS 5000 sat nav system almost never chooses minor lanes, how? Easy, the software is designed to not choose them unless it is the only way. The downside of this is that it will often take a roundabout route where a perfectly viable shorter option is available. As an example I live in Telford and the shortest and fastest route to Dudley is down the B4176, a good road locally known as "the rabbit run". If I choose "Fastest" route on the VDO system it plots a route using the M54 and A 449 through Wolverhampton, NOT the fastest route by a country mile. If I choose "Shortest" route it plots a route out to Bridgnorth on the A442 and then turn left onto the A454 for Dudley, not the sohrtest route by a country mile!

 

D.

[Guest JudgeMental]

My old Garmin 2610 with latest V9 mapping is set up with my vehicle as a bus! BUT still tries to take me down tracks from time to time.....

[Old Git]

JudgeMental - 2007-08-29 1:46 PM

 

My old Garmin 2610 with latest V9 mapping is set up with my vehicle as a bus! BUT still tries to take me down tracks from time to time.....

 

Precisely Judge.

 

Mine's a Nuvi 350, also with the latest V9 mappings, and also set up as a bus. Same bad habits as yours too. As I said earlier, I don't think it makes a scrap of difference to the route it chooses whether you set it up as a bus or a motorbike.

 

Dave's sounds better on this score, but has a mind of its own in other ways - probably just as irritating.

 

I was hoping somebody smarter than me would have an answer, but maybe there isn't one yet. The new models will be out soon, ready for Christmas I expect, so let's keep the fingers crossed.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

which new models?

 

are these from Garmin?

 

most new models are OK for simple A to B. But I like to plan routes on my computer and download to GPS, telling it what roads to take - not the other way around.

 

with mapsource maps on DVD I can do this but unfortunately recently Garmin have started to copy TT and no longer have this facility on latest models (still available on ZUMO & a few others)

 

want something new with POI facilities but reluctant to loose what I have *-)

[robin]

JudgeMental - 2007-08-29 2:08 PM

 

which new models?

 

are these from Garmin?

 

most new models are OK for simple A to B. But I like to plan routes on my computer and download to GPS, telling it what roads to take - not the other way around.

 

with mapsource maps on DVD I can do this but unfortunately recently Garmin have started to copy TT and no longer have this facility on latest models (still available on ZUMO & a few others)

 

want something new with POI facilities but reluctant to loose what I have *-)

 

I use a piece of freeware called ITNconv - that converts an MS Autoroute itinerary to a number of sat nav formats - in my case Tom Tom ... may be work for you...

[Old Git]

JudgeMental - 2007-08-29 2:08 PM

 

which new models?

 

are these from Garmin?

 

*-)

 

From several manufacturers from what I gather. A selection of the latest "must haves" for Christmas I guess.

 

 

[CliveH]

I do not use a sat nav as i married the only lady in the world that can read a map (not the only reason but certainly one of them!)

 

However we have considerred one and were shown by our son who uses one all the time that you could set it up as shortest distance or fastest time.

 

You can also set it for vehicle type which he said would help us when towing.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

thanks Robin & Dave,

 

W2G has tried to educate me as to what conversion software is available. But if possible I would rather stay with what I know.

 

mapsource on a computer is so easy and perfect for motorhomers....

 

Clive, you can set them up for whatever you like but you still need your wits about you. they can still take you down inappropriate roads....

[Champstar]

My Garmin is just a cheapo and is set up as a bus but down in Cornwall this summer I was sent down some what I would call footpaths...hardly big enough to get a M/home through >:-( >:-( >:-(

I wanted a sat nav so we could enjoy the journey without having to refer to maps and so OH could look out the window and shout look at that (!) (!) (!)

[Old Git]

CliveH - 2007-08-29 2:34 PM

 

You can also set it for vehicle type which he said would help us when towing.

 

 

Sorry Clive. Unless he knows something the rest of us don't, he's wrong.

 

Read the previous posts - it makes no difference at all to the route it chooses whether you tell it you are a motorbike or a bus.

 

If your lad does know the secret, please tell us. You will be drowned in a flood of gratitude.

 

 

[J9withdogs]

CliveH - 2007-08-29 2:34 PM

 

I do not use a sat nav as i married the only lady in the world that can read a map

 

 

Ahem, I think you may be wrong there Clive >:-(

[robin]

JudgeMental - 2007-08-29 2:39 PM

 

....

 

W2G has tried to educate me as to what conversion software is available. But if possible I would rather stay with what I know.

 

mapsource on a computer is so easy and perfect for motorhomers....

...

 

Yes, and I am not sure I'd shell out the hard earned for the latest Autoroute offering, which is a backward step by all accounts. However, the thing I like about planning with MS Autoroute is that I can load the same POIs on to it, as I have on the satnav. (e.g. for Aires and such like).

[Guest JudgeMental]

autoroute 2007 £10 ebay

[Old Git]

robin - 2007-08-29 4:08 PM

Yes, and I am not sure I'd shell out the hard earned for the latest Autoroute offering, which is a backward step by all accounts. However, the thing I like about planning with MS Autoroute is that I can load the same POIs on to it, as I have on the satnav. (e.g. for Aires and such like).

 

Could you provide a few priceless hints and tips please Robin, if you think it would be of general interest. Otherwise I'd very much appreciate a PM. I have Autoroute 2005 (I think) but have never really got into it.

[BrianR]

it would certainly interest me, as I have just bought a laptop and am thinking of buying Autoroute 2007. I have not heard it refered to as "a step backwards" before - is this backwards relative to previous Autoroute software or relative to other mapping software?

 

Brian

[robin]

Ok - there is a PDF file somewhere out there on the WWW, but I can't track it down at the moment - I've only got a print out and I can't find where that is either - Give me some time and I'll find the URL and post it in Hints and Tips. - it's far more eloquent than I'm capable of.

 

In the meantime - here is a potted version

 

Download your POIs from the source website using the ASCII format (.asc) or Excel if available.

Example here

http://www.campingcar-infos.com/index1.htm

(synchronisation gps option on left of screen)

Open file with Excel and save as .xls

Open Autoroute and use the import wizard to import the file you just imported and hey presto, they should appear in Autoroute as a pushpin set that you can name and You can import the associated .bmp file and assign that against the pushpin set.

I then save this autoroute file for use as my base planner.

You then use route planning in autoroute to plan your trip - then save it with a unique name for the trip.

It should save as a .axe file.

Next, download ITNConv from here: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=fr%7Cen&u=http://benichougps.blogspot.com/ and install it. Run it and open your .axe file and save it as a TomTom .itn file and stick the resultant file into your .itn directory. ITNconv supports other satnav formats as well - you can even export it to Google Earth if you so wish.

You should then be able to open the itinerary in TomTom.

 

I haven't used Autoroute 2007, (I'm still on 2003) but have heard that there is an issue with postcodes missing and some other mapping problems - just hearsay though.

 

HTH

 

[Old Git]

Thanks Robin - very nice of you. I'll look forward to getting the URL too.

 

Shall study this tomorrow - hard day today and the old brain needs to be fresh for all this technical stuff.

 

Suppose I could ask the nearest 10 year old to give me a hand!

 

Cheers

[JohnP]

Like JudgeMental I use a laptop to plan routes and then download to a Garmin 2720. I find this easier to plan my route and go the way I want to go.

The unit is set up to "bus" but it only uses this to work out the arrival time and does not use the bus definition to block narrow roads etc.

It is also possible to block roads for example where there are long term roadworks and no doubt you could block very narrow roads but this would be impossible to do.

When I went to see Dave (Cruise Control) my unit suggested the Iron Bridge. Thank goodness for a pub car park to turn around in. Narrow bridge, weight limit and height restriction but no warning signs until 250 yards from Mr Telfords masterpiece.

[Brian Kirby]

Boring, I suppose, and we still haven't bought a sat nav, but!  I really don't think it is practical to leave all the navigation to a computer.  Essentially, computers are dumb, though getting "cleverer", and have to be told what to do.  However, they only understand your telling in terms of what they "know", and within the parameters of the programme controlling their actions.  That means upsets, and mis-matches in expectations, are almost inevitable if too much reliance is placed on the poor things!

I think you need something like Autoroute the start the ball rolling, in terms of route planning, but then to go over the route as proposed by Autoroute with decent maps and look all along the roads, and check how they are shown, being prepared to knock Auporoute into line when it chooses silly roads!  Then, when you've got the basic route "right", transfer the waypoints as set in Autoroute (manually if necessary) into the sat nav, so that it, too, follows the desired route.  Then, apart from diversions, you should be able to lay the maps aside (but still within reach) and let the sat-nav do what it does best - which is give the instructions on where to turn.

It seems there is a complication when doing this if you encounter a diversion, especially one of those mammoth French "Deviations", in that sat-navs will then try to navigate back to the next actual waypoint, rather than simply shortcutting to the next logical waypoint.  But then they would, because that is their logic, but not yours.  You then need to be able to knock out any illogical waypoints on the fly, as soon as you can see where the the diversion is taking you, (for which you'll need a map, see - you can't really get rid of them altogether!), and then just allow the sat-nav to re-calculate to the next logical waypoint. 

The alternative is to just drive down the motorways all the time, but you hardly need a satnav for that, do you :-)

Oh, and Clive, your wife certainly isn't the only woman who can map read, my navigator can map read and navigate, with near 100% accuracy.  Her only difficulty is re-calculating routes on the fly when you hit those big diversions.  That's why I want a sat-nav.  That, and to let her spend more time looking at the scenery, and less at the map.

[crinklystarfish]

Sensible words Brian, as usual.

When touring I move on every day and so plan a route each night and I don't see what all the fuss is about. There's no need to mess around with conversion software or up / dowloads as far as I'm concerned. I have messed about with this stuff but find it a waste of life.

I simply look at a paper map of where I want to go and the route I want to take. I then program the destination into my ageing Garmin Streetpilot and get it to calculate the route. If it doesn't choose the route I want I recalculate using another option (shortest distance / faster time / whatever). If it still doesn't pick the route I want I whack in a couple of waypoints to make it behave.

The whole process takes no more than 10 minutes. If I get to a road that's unsuitable, it's my fault for failing to read the paper map properly.

I accept that to do this you need a paper map of the areas you travel through, but that suits me anyway as I use them for finding national parks / geological features / nature reserves / planning bike rides in an area, etc.

The machine works for me, I don't work for it! Why complicate matters?

[robin]

Old Git - 2007-08-29 10:13 PM

 

Thanks Robin - very nice of you. I'll look forward to getting the URL too.

 

Shall study this tomorrow - hard day today and the old brain needs to be fresh for all this technical stuff.

 

Suppose I could ask the nearest 10 year old to give me a hand!

 

Cheers

 

It is pretty straightforward once you've worked out how to do it once.

 

 

I've now remembered that I found the link on Graham Hadfield's Motorhome Parking site

http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/download.htm

 

I don't think it is appropriate to copy this to the Hints and Tips.

 

I'll e-mail Graham and let him know about this

 

:-|

[Old Git]

Hi Crinkly and Brian before him.

 

You have just outlined exactly what I do, especially Crinkly, and I agree entirely with all you say about the major part of the route planning and navigating. The bit that bugs me though is when you get to within a few miles of your destination, which is accurately plotted into the gadget using 6 figure co-ordinates, and the cantankerous little brute can't find its way there without trying to send you up somebody's back alley.

 

We had this several times on a recent trip to Italy. We "toured" on the way there (in true motorhomer mode) taking 7 days to get there, and getting from A to B-minus-a-bit was generally pretty good. However, three times the satnav was far more trouble than it was worth in the final three or four miles before the campsite. I had (have) come to the conclusion that it's pretty useless over short distances unless the destination happens to be more or less adjacent to the fairly major road by which you complete the final couple of miles. It seems that whatever option you choose it tries to go as nearly as possible in a straight line over short distances. It would have been a real pain in the bum if I had been towing a caravan.

 

Does this sound like your experiences? The main part of the route is usually not much of a problem - we do the same as you and use a paper map as well, but it's the last little bit where you often need the most help to find your destination.