armstrongpiper Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Just got back from NEC Show. Talked with man on Fiat Ducato stand about water ingree problem. He said that Fiat acknowledge there have been problems and greatly apologise to all those who have been affected. He then showed me, on a new chassis-cab, what they had done to cure the faults. To me, it seemed quite comprehensive, and according to the Fiat guy , will have sorted it all out. Time will tell I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 this is good news for everyone who has bought one, but i feel as this episode happened with the old model, it should never have happened with the latest model, do the makers learn nothing from previous mistakes? pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 What i have seen so far the Fiat mods do not address the basic problem You should never allow water onto sensetive parts and electrics and an engine shield will keep the injectors dry but where will the water go? Drilling bigger holes in the ends of the windscreen scutell will allow the water to drain more rapidily on to parts like the relay/fuse box. Colin Frier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icdsun Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Colin Everyone has been focused on the rust on the injectors issue but my concerns are as you point out water/electrics don't mix. The proposed fix should remedy the water falling on to the top of engine block, it will not remedy the waterfall on to the fusebox, this waterfall comes in general from the air intake scoop which has drain holes at the rear instead of the front of the ducting, everytime you open the bonnet it pours down on to the fuse box. Incidentally if anyone is seeing puddles of water around the base of the wiper arms, stop the wipers in their vertical position and you will see a small drainhole which gets blocked very easily, I have opened these holes up a little to allow the water to flow away. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Word is out that there is a "wiper motor" & "steering" recall to add to the known water ingress and gear box ones in the pipeline - according to the Fiat guy at the NEC they ae "not serious" and "will be fixed" as soon as the details of owners is retrieved via the DVLA.The "fix for the water ingress" has apprently only just been finalised and he was surprised that anybody had it already as the official recall is due in the next few weeks. It looked pretty comprehensive on the vehicle on show too - fingers crossed...... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Leaks into the engine bay of New Style Fiat Ducato/Peugeot/Citroen The problem is water leaking into the engine bay and soaking various components in the engine bay.The long term effects of this will cause numerous and varied problems for these vehicles in the future.It’s all very well and proper to take the matter up with Fiat but in the mean time you vehicle and investment is being ruined. There are several design faults not rectified by one fix: 1 Water runs behind the plastic scuttle below the windscreen and via the joint of the two halves. 2 The extreme ends of the plastic scuttle are lower than the drained channel with no means of connecting with the off centre drain tube so they fill and flood into the engine bay.(exasperated if the vehicle is parked on a camber) 3 The fresh air intake drain tube is to the rear of the intake so if the vehicle is parked nose down the water leaks via the seal between the two halves of the intake. 4.Water runs between the plastic trim plates above and down the side of the headlamp 5.The gap between windscreen and a post acts as a channel to funnel water under the bonnet. 6 The gap between bonnet and headlamp has no means of stopping water entering the engine compartment My suggestion for a solution to the problem I have done this to my Burstner Solano and it works after testing with a hose no significant sign of water. 1.Seal the plastic scuttle to the windscreen 2. Fit drain tubes to the two low areas of the plastic scuttle (i.e. both ends) 3.Fit a drain to the fore end of the fresh air intake 4.Seal with silicon 5.Seal with silicon 6.Stick foam to underside of the bonnet short edges to form a seal. For the 3 drain tubes I used 18mm dia metal inserts used for plastic pipework its easy to drill the necessary holes an 18mm wood bit is ideal for plastic.I then sealed the inserts which have a small lip with silicon. To the inserts I attached 25mm dia plastic flexible conduit its a slack fit on the 18mm insert but easily taken up with silicon.The plastic conduit is ideal for the task as it can be tied back into almost any shape I used cable ties to secure the pipes with them terminating level with the bottom of the main plastic bumper. To seal the plastic scuttle its easier to remove the bonnet 4 bolts mark with felt tip pen the heads of the bolts this will allow exact repositioning.Remove the wipers 2 nuts.Remove the trim panels above headlights 2 machine screws each plus clips. Then release the plastic scuttle some screws and clips no need to remove completely just pull back to make the application of the silicon to the inside face easier.Refit the scuttle it may be necessary to hold the scuttle to the windscreen with some small wedges from the wipers.Any excess silicon exuding can be trimmed with a sharp knife after setting. When drilling the hole in the freshair intake drill it on to the drop lip so it’s in the lowest possible position. Using evostick ( if your foam is not self adhesive)stick 5/6 mm thick close cell foam strip to the underside of the short edges of the bonnet,foam about 15mm wide. Sealing the area around the headlamps and body use black silicon since there is a groove for the most part its easy to make a neat job looking like it’s meant to be I am aware that these in theory could affect you warrantee but I doubt a dealer would take such a line. The parts used can be obtained from any DIY store I got mine from Leroy Merlins in Malaga What a task on a new vehicle that cost £45k but it will definitely be worth it. Colin Frier olympuscars@aol.com ( Malaga Spain) need help e mail me PS I understand that Fiat are now proposing an engine cover but this addresses only some of the problem first principal keep the water out!!!engine bays and water don’t go well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thanks for that Colin. I have copied that and will print it off and show it to my dealer and see if they can do more than just the Fix proposed by Fiat. Being a lady don't think I will have the ability to do this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 i posted this on another thread same subject, today i contacted trading standards, there advice was 1.not to do any d.i.y fix. 2. contact my dealer, not fiat,and state that if they did not fix the problem within a reasonable time, 1 month, state that i would be taking action under the sale of goods act 1979 due to the m/home not of being satisfactory quality. the contract is with the dealer not fiat or it,s agents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Fine in theory but do you really want to make an enemy of your dealer when the fault is not his and neither is he qualified to develop a fix? Two wrongs don't make it right and 'tis better to work with people than to sue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I do feel sorry for the dealers because as rightly pointed out it isn't the dealers fault it is FIAT'S and peugeot/citreon fault. However as we buy a product we expect it to be FIT FOR PURPOSE and the new Ducato X2/50 as it stands without modification is clearly NOT fit for purpose. At least FIAT are doing something about it. HOWEVER we do expect FIAT to make sure our dealers have the parts necessary to enable them to sort out the vehicles already bought or are being bought without this modification etc. To expect customers to wait an unspecified time weeks/months is unacceptable. The parts need to be got to the dealers PRONTO. In my case I have been to inspect the vehicle I am buying and are due to collect Nov 2nd. I expect it do be done by the time I collect it......if not..... Well lets just say I do not want water pouring into my engine bay over all the electrics etc. I am prepared to give the dealer a chance and hope my faith in them will be well founded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Tracker - 2007-10-21 3:32 PM Fine in theory but do you really want to make an enemy of your dealer when the fault is not his and neither is he qualified to develop a fix? Two wrongs don't make it right and 'tis better to work with people than to sue them.but the dealer, marquis, isn,t doing anything,they referred me to fiat m/home agents essenjay who said the internet forums were were stirring people up as they had only heard of one other problem and they didn,t know of any fix, fiat acknowledged my e,mail but have not contacted me again,6wks, swift are the only trade body that has acknowledged there is a problem and that fiat are working on it, in the meantime my vehicle is deteriorating so who is the loser me or my dealer,also these m/homes will be known in the trade so look out trade in time. in law the buck stops with the dealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I don't have one of these infernal machines yet but have you seen the thread from Kelly58 entitled 'water ingress in engine Fiat X2/50', and does it help at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 You can forget about the rust on the engine, no problem, there are farm tractors out there over 40 years old, stand in all weathers, still start first time. No, the only problem as many have said is the electrics, they dont mix with water, hope its sorted soon. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossko Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Have just had our Swift Bolero back from the fiat dealer having had our 4 recall items"fixed"!!!! Fiats solution for the water ingress is to clean the injectors then spray them with some water resistant spray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No action on preventing the water getting in there. Has anyone else had any other remedy from the dealer?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildmoorman2012 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi, here we are four years on from the last post and what happened to me on our way up through the highlands of Scotland this May ? Yep you've guest it having driven my ten month old Autotrail through very heavy rain just out side of Inverness a pannel light came on informing me I had water in the fuel system,so as the book says I stopped the engine and phoned for Fiat assist some three and a half hours latter we were dropped of on the fore court of the Fiat dealer. The next morning they put a mechanic on the job as soon as they came in, he drained the filter and tested the fuel, no water was found however I did tell him that I had noticed when I opened the bonnet that water was running down over a connecter block which he informed me that the connection was the fuel sensor connection. He dried it off road tested the van and sent us on our way out into the rain once more some five miles up the road the light flickered on again I stopped at the next garage and bought a can of Damp Start sprayed the connector and have not had the problem again. I have since heard of two other people having had water problems during that same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Thank the Lord we've got a 1992 Peugeot J5 (think Talbot Express) based motorhome, with the ancient but basically utterly bulletproof 2.5 TD engine. No electronics. No EGR valves. No cat to be stolen. No computer to go wrong. No sensors. Ok, so it's happy-chug speed is only 90 to100 kms per hour. But in the nearly 5 years and 80,000 kms that we've had it, the engine has been utterly reliable. Even now, it's only got 143,000kms on the clock, so should be good for another couple of hundred thousand more before any major refurbishment....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Yes, modern gadgets and 'improvements' are fine untill they go wrong, then they cost the earth to replace/mend. So far, in four years ownership of our 2008 Autotrail Tracker,we have had to have the Habitation door handle fixed twice, replaced 4 strips of LED lighting (very costly compared to simple bulbs or even Halogen units), replacing now the Remis rooflight in the washroom which has failed for the second time (not using Remis this time, as too complicated compared to Heki), fitted replacement mixer tap in bathroom (what was wrong with two simple taps in light-weight plastic), returned complicated power management/charger box to maker's for repair. But even simple things like screws to secure door hinges keep coming loose as they are too small a gauge-size, so need to carry larger ones as spares. On balance, though, I think we'll stay with the 'newer' toy. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I gotta say, my 2003 Rapido hasn't missed a beat since I bought it. Nothing whatsoever has gone wrong, taps, fridge, mechanicals, etc.Its serviced regularly by myself and I've only ever replaced service items and a set of tyres a few weeks ago. I even checked it out yesterday with my damp meter and its showing acceptable readings everywhere.Thats probably the 'kiss of death' now as I'm off to Dorset next week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hello, With the recent extremely wet conditions that we have all been driving in I would have thought that a minor electrical fault would be distinctly possible on just about any vehicle at all. It was easily fixed and would probably have dried out by itself in a short time. It did not stop you from using the vehicle and in the big scheme of things I would have thought that far more water has been spraying around your engine bay from the road than has been running down your windscreen. If you see a message on the dashboard that suggests that there is 'water in the fuel' and the van is running OK and you are pretty sure that you have not accidentally filled your fuel tank with water you should follow the advice in your handbook which is to have the vehicle examined when possible. It is not an emergency, and should not spoil your enjoyment of your rain soaked journey. None of the percieved potential hazards of water ingress in the engine bay of Fiat vans have actually borne any fruit. The injectors are a pig to get out without the correct tool, rusty or not. This is typical of modern engine design. Best not to worry about it. Nick Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hi,Still not good enough design or customer care from FIAT,,,,,,they really do need to get their act together.Regards,Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auntyjanet1 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 wildmoorman2012 - 2012-07-13 10:32 PM Hi, here we are four years on from the last post and what happened to me on our way up through the highlands of Scotland this May ? Yep you've guest it having driven my ten month old Autotrail through very heavy rain just out side of Inverness a pannel light came on informing me I had water in the fuel system,so as the book says I stopped the engine and phoned for Fiat assist some three and a half hours latter we were dropped of on the fore court of the Fiat dealer. The next morning they put a mechanic on the job as soon as they came in, he drained the filter and tested the fuel, no water was found however I did tell him that I had noticed when I opened the bonnet that water was running down over a connecter block which he informed me that the connection was the fuel sensor connection. He dried it off road tested the van and sent us on our way out into the rain once more some five miles up the road the light flickered on again I stopped at the next garage and bought a can of Damp Start sprayed the connector and have not had the problem again. I have since heard of two other people having had water problems during that same time. HI, Have been away since friday ,so missed this thread, i had posted on an earlier thread about problems with my fuel gauge, and it was concluded that the problem was probably the combined fuel pump/sender ,cost new approx £180 without labour ,but i did not know that there was a fuel sensor connection under the bonnet where i have no doubt that water could mess up the electronics. So as soon as it has stopped raining( if it ever does) i shall go and investigate the connections anything to avoid spending more cash, as i have already replace the ECU which was found to be full of water, my van a Peugot X250 is a left-hand drive so the ECU is the same side as the fuel filter and connector so it could be a water related problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 The warning light/message indicates that there is water in the fuel. It does this by measuring the viscosity of the fluid in the fuel filter. There is a sensor in the bottom of the fuel filter housing on most diesel vehicles. This is the only way that the vehicle ECU would know if there is a problem. It is quite normal to accumulate some water in the fuel filter over time and if you have your fuel filter changed regularly you should never see the light on. If you have a light or message on to that effect it must be an electrical problem. A short ; a broken connection or poor earth. The AA man that recovered the vehicle is clearly an idiot. There was absolutely no reason for the vehicle not to be driven under it's own steam until it was convenient to go to a dealer to have it examined. Cliff; If you were getting readings that were completely empty or completely full all the time then it could be an electrical fault but a partially full reading is going to be the sender unit. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hi,The AA man may not be such an idiot as he is safeguarding himself in the event of any legal proceedings in the event of any damage occurring if the van was used. Water ingress in this day and age with a raft of electronic equipment on board is really just not acceptable. FIAT really need to address this problem to achieve any credibility in product and customer care.Regards,Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Brendan, This AA patrol should have used his intelligence and realised that there was obviously no water in the fuel and saved his firm the expense of a recovery. He could have removed the sensor and confirmed this if he could have been bothered. At the same time today we have had a van 'lose' all but 3rd gear. The AA attended and managed to get 3rd and 4th gear for the driver and told him that it was ok to drive 30 miles home like that. I doubt very much that the AA will be accountable for the wear to the clutch or damage caused by over-revving the engine! This should have been a recovery job. The inconsistencies are astonishing. Yes; Fiat should do a better job of sealing the bonnet area, but there is a very large open space below most engines from where a great deal of potentially damaging moisture can and will enter. So in actual fact it is more important to protect the electrical connections individually than to expect an hermetically sealed engine bay. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hi True , as everyone is an individual and makes their decisions accordingly ,one would assume he would, but I am afraid most don't or could not be bothered. Yes again FIAT do need to purchase better connections for their electrical gear and yes a bottom engine cover pan works well to keep off water spray. As does a top one. This Fiat should be doing for their customer base to regain customer confidence again in their product. Without purchasers having to do ,DIY fixes. This really is not good enough in this day and age as they are paying enough for their product, without incurring such faults,Regards,Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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